looking at the European results so far, including comments and some of the more sussesful lists, all I can think is that going well back "Clon" made the call on a very basic principle that is still driving Successfull lists today.... And that is very high activation count supporting at least one key manover unit that is capable of doing significant damage. Since since the clonisher we have seen a rise in squadron power so one of those "power units" must be a big squadron ball, flotillas have seen cheaper activations so you can invest in more activations and more potent power units. So now in the latest iteration of this principle we see 130+ of fighters and a powerful ship in 6 activation lists.

so for me although some of the key units have changed the fundamental rule of more activations powering key power units seems to still be there.

At least we can now say what dominates is not reeky but instead the skilled application of a small number of powerfull units ( figher balls being a unit in my mind) supported by overwhelming activation numbers.

Is that a good thing.....?

Other point.

Uk meta has an issue with high bids. However, the europeans came over with even stronger bids.

20pt bid isnt reliable anymore...

I certainly don't put myself the same level as these guys,

But of late I've been running a double ISD 2nd player build trying to really leverage objectives.

And am still finding first player + lots of activations is still the thing to beat.

31 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Other point.

Uk meta has an issue with high bids. However, the europeans came over with even stronger bids.

20pt bid isnt reliable anymore...

That's really interesting, I suppose if you are going to lever max benefit out of those activations, and single super activation you want to go first.

3 hours ago, Jondavies72 said:

At least we can now say what dominates is not reeky but instead the skilled application of a small number of powerfull units ( figher balls being a unit in my mind) supported by overwhelming activation numbers.

I'm not convinced that's the case. I would still state that high-activation builds relying on squadrons have the advantage and Rieekan pushes that advantage even further. My understanding is that there weren't many (if any) Rieekan aces builds flown by skilled players.

4 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Other point.

Uk meta has an issue with high bids. However, the europeans came over with even stronger bids.

20pt bid isnt reliable anymore...

No different in Toronto, 20 won't get you first if your opponent wants it, guaranteed. 24 is usually good... Got hit with 30 once in a casual game.

8 minutes ago, Darthain said:

No different in Toronto, 20 won't get you first if your opponent wants it, guaranteed. 24 is usually good... Got hit with 30 once in a casual game.

Oddly, despite me saying that.

Tokras bid was 0, and Bens was 2. Think Alex's was 7.

How do you even win with a 30 point bid?

10 minutes ago, Nyxen said:

How do you even win with a 30 point bid?

I'm not sure it's in me to make that kind of bid, that's like a whole ship or a pair of fighters......

sooooo.... more balls of 134 squadrons i hear....

Once you start getting bids like that I'm surprised people don't start building lists around going second...

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

sooooo.... more balls of 134 squadrons i hear....

You got it. And 9 flotillas between the two finalists. At least it wasn't Rebels at the top this time? I'm hearing 6 of the top 8 were Rhymerballs. I smell a nerf bat coming.

2 hours ago, Nyxen said:

How do you even win with a 30 point bid?

The question driving bids is how will you win if you are second player. If you beat the other initiative hunters you have such a small doffer it is not relevant (you will probably crush them), it is the 399 people that present a bit more trouble.

So if i understand right, these 20pt bids were for first, not second? I just want to be clear on that since their is motivation in my mind to bid both ways.

17 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

So if i understand right, these 20pt bids were for first, not second? I just want to be clear on that since their is motivation in my mind to bid both ways.

Correct, unless they hit the strategic lists

1 hour ago, pyqz said:

Once you start getting bids like that I'm surprised people don't start building lists around going second...

Some of us do ? I went 400pts - played 2nd every time. Won 6-1, came 8th. Every objective helped me with points - lowest 'boost' I got was 50pts with VIP.

1 hour ago, Truthiness said:

You got it. And 9 flotillas between the two finalists. At least it wasn't Rebels at the top this time? I'm hearing 6 of the top 8 were Rhymerballs. I smell a nerf bat coming.

Yeah, that was a rhetorical flourish in another thread. Rhymer appeared once in the top 8. He just happened to win.

the delightful French contingent have put the top 8 lists on friendface:

https://www.facebook.com/SWArmadaFrance/posts/1083056918493916

My favourite of all this occured to me on the way home.

Bens list is now redundant. Wuluff Quasar is here for those six squads slings...

32 minutes ago, Dr alex said:

Yeah, that was a rhetorical flourish in another thread. Rhymer appeared once in the top 8. He just happened to win.

the delightful French contingent have put the top 8 lists on friendface:

https://www.facebook.com/SWArmadaFrance/posts/1083056918493916

Well top 2 both had Rhymer, but good to see the rest is hyperbole.

And yes, I'm aware Blail was just being snarky. He still has a point, which makes me think a nerf bat is warranted.

Oh hey, look at that: an ISD supercarrier won!

But guise who will even use the Quasar when two flotillas are still more efficient!

Congrats on the win, Ben!

3 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

Well top 2 both had Rhymer, but good to see the rest is hyperbole.

Oh yeah, turns out I skipped that detail when I read tokra's list

Looking through those top 8, the diversity actually isn't half bad. Still a lot of flotillas, but the squadron mix is pretty different.

1 minute ago, Truthiness said:

Looking through those top 8, the diversity actually isn't half bad. Still a lot of flotillas, but the squadron mix is pretty different.

Also what struck me.

21 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

My favourite of all this occured to me on the way home.

Bens list is now redundant. Wuluff Quasar is here for those six squads slings...

So true. Imperials with the lower point cap en masse alpha threat is going to be a threat that every fleet will have to consider in the future.

Very interesting. My list from worlds would have loved a high bidding environment that would allow it to go second! Until you brought up that bid i felt like my fleet sounded pretty "european" style with its 3 flotillas and 134 pt squad compliment. However, i included a 6point bid just to beat 498ish point rieekan ace fleets to second.

I don't think Rhymer is broken strong. He can be neutralized with a number of options on both factions.