I love Whisper... my wife loves using Dengar....
It is hard work, but I found Kylo crew was the best bet. Get Dengar to PS0 (stay cloaked, behind rocks etc when you do the Kylo action). Then move away. Once Dengar is PS 0 Dengar should be Ok to deal with.
If you want a very different style build... you could try the particle accelerator with push the limit.
Decloack, get evade token, push for focus, move green and clear stress, then barrel roll (or something like that).
12 hours ago, Dave Grant said:Kylo crew
12 hours ago, Dave Grant said:particle accelerator with push the limit.
These are awesome, I can't wait to try them.
On June 3, 2017 at 0:08 PM, Hawkstrike said:You know what's scary? Four naked Sigmas -- 100 points even, throwing 16-20 red dice.
I just recently did this at a tournament. Without practice, or plan on how I would fly it... Annihilated a Rey/Poe build in three rounds of fire, losing one Phantom. Destroyed a Ventress/Sessiru/Fenn list in two rounds of fire with no losses... And died miserably to a four ship Rebel and Old Teroch/Fenn/Manaroo. I like it!
If Dengar is your problem (not sure what the rest of the list but hey), try this:
Rear Admiral:
Veteran Instincts, Kylo Ren, Rebel Captive and Engine Upgrade.
"Whisper":
Veteran Instincts, Agent Kallus, Fire Control System and Advanced Cloaking Device.
98 points
PS10 and PS9 with a nice two point bid for initiative. You NEED to move and shoot first so you can max out your ACD.
Mark Dengar with Agent Kallus for the extra punch and defense. Next, get Kylo to show Dengar the Dark Side and bust him down to PS0. Punish accordingly.
Whilst you are punishing him, have Kylo show him the dark side again and blind him.
Normally, a RAC and Whisper combo will finish Dengar off in two to three rounds of shooting. Three to four dice from RAC and four to five dice from Whisper will make short work of him.
On 6/6/2017 at 8:15 AM, Viktus106 said:"Whisper":
Veteran Instincts, Agent Kallus, Fire Control System and Advanced Cloaking Device.
How do you beat this ship and it's 4-5 defense dice when Cloaked?
23 minutes ago, drail14me said:How do you beat this ship and it's 4-5 defense dice when Cloaked?
You don't. Not with any normal ship at least. This ship is actually what has defined a good deal of the meta:
Dash Rendar: punches four dice, defender gets no range bonus. Whisper might whiff.
TLTs: attack twice. Further possibility of whiffage.
High pilot skill: Might get initiative and attack before Whisper gets a chance to cloak.
Sabine bombs: damage can't be evaded. Sabine makes it even better, with a nice extra unblockable damage.
Ordnance: with guidance chips, likely rolling four hits. Whisper will get a blank or two from time to time.
So, yeah, look at the current meta, and thank Whisper for a lot of it. That is one nasty ship, if you ask me. Should have been named Darth Vader for its ability to outmaneuver and destroy so many ships.
5 minutes ago, Kieransi said:You don't. Not with any normal ship at least. This ship is actually what has defined a good deal of the meta:
Dash Rendar: punches four dice, defender gets no range bonus. Whisper might whiff.
TLTs: attack twice. Further possibility of whiffage.
High pilot skill: Might get initiative and attack before Whisper gets a chance to cloak.
Sabine bombs: damage can't be evaded. Sabine makes it even better, with a nice extra unblockable damage.
Ordnance: with guidance chips, likely rolling four hits. Whisper will get a blank or two from time to time.
So, yeah, look at the current meta, and thank Whisper for a lot of it. That is one nasty ship, if you ask me. Should have been named Darth Vader for its ability to outmaneuver and destroy so many ships.
I may be screwed then. I'm playing in a league. We get 150 points and two named pilots. My next opponent is flying "Whisper" + Agent Kallus + FCS + VI + Adv Cloaking. He's also got the "inquisitor" + PTL + Tie/V1 + Auto Thrusters. Not sure what the rest of his squad will be but thinking an Upsilon Shuttle and two Tie/Fo
I've got 150 points to build a squad to beat him. My squad must include Nera Dantels and Garven Dries and no other named pilots. So, my highest PS pilot will be Garven at PS6. Gonna be tough!
8 minutes ago, drail14me said:I may be screwed then. I'm playing in a league. We get 150 points and two named pilots. My next opponent is flying "Whisper" + Agent Kallus + FCS + VI + Adv Cloaking. He's also got the "inquisitor" + PTL + Tie/V1 + Auto Thrusters. Not sure what the rest of his squad will be but thinking an Upsilon Shuttle and two Tie/Fo
I've got 150 points to build a squad to beat him. My squad must include Nera Dantels and Garven Dries and no other named pilots. So, my highest PS pilot will be Garven at PS6. Gonna be tough!
Ouch... Nera with Rey Crew, dead eye, adv. proton torps and FCS... and pray.
8 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:Ouch... Nera with Rey Crew, dead eye, adv. proton torps and FCS... and pray.
Gonna be real hard to get him in range 1 with that B-wing.
What about stressing him? I'm guessing if he has stress, he'll just stay cloaked and fly green to clear but if he's cloaked, at least he's not shooting, right?
On June 4, 2017 at 0:07 AM, Dave Grant said:I love Whisper... my wife loves using Dengar....
It is hard work, but I found Kylo crew was the best bet. Get Dengar to PS0 (stay cloaked, behind rocks etc when you do the Kylo action). Then move away. Once Dengar is PS 0 Dengar should be Ok to deal with.
Holy crap. That's actually not a bad idea. Rac with Kylo / Whisper ??
Anyone know, is Rebel Captive of any use vs Dengar?
RAC + Kylo Whisper is a build I've seen on a few top events (worlds top 16 maybe ??).
I usually put Kylo on Whisper as I'm not a fan of 2 ship lists... But RAC would be effective.
Rebel captive... not really. Jumpmasters don't care too much about stress unless you can double stress them as they have too much green on the dial. It does shut down expertise for the second shot though and reduces there s-looping... but there are better crew for that match-up (Kallus)
2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:Holy crap. That's actually not a bad idea. Rac with Kylo / Whisper ??
Anyone know, is Rebel Captive of any use vs Dengar?
It can be, if he's running Expertise it shuts it down before the attack as it gives the stress when the attack is declared, not afterwards. It also forces green moves so if he wants to sloop he'll loose his action.
Edited by Deffly4 hours ago, drail14me said:I may be screwed then. I'm playing in a league. We get 150 points and two named pilots. My next opponent is flying "Whisper" + Agent Kallus + FCS + VI + Adv Cloaking. He's also got the "inquisitor" + PTL + Tie/V1 + Auto Thrusters. Not sure what the rest of his squad will be but thinking an Upsilon Shuttle and two Tie/Fo
I've got 150 points to build a squad to beat him. My squad must include Nera Dantels and Garven Dries and no other named pilots. So, my highest PS pilot will be Garven at PS6. Gonna be tough!
How did you draw those two when he has two of the best the Empire has to offer??
Actually, the fact you have to have Nera is perfect. . 150 points you say?
Garven Dreis:
R2-D6 > Veteran Instincts
Flechette Torps
Integrated Astromech
Nera Dantels:
Deadeye
Flechette Torps
Extra Munitions
Fire Control System
Guidance Chips
Gray Squadron Y Wing
Twin Laser Turret
R2 Astromech
Gray Squadron Y Wing
Twin Laser Turret
R2 Astromech
Gray Squadron Y Wing
Twin Laser Turret
R3-A2
BTL-A4 Title
145 points / 5 point initiative bid because why not?
Take three of the largest debris field you can. If you opponent has a PS8, give him initiative so he moves first, unless he uses Echo instead, in which case, you need initiative.
Key here is to stress his list into oblivion and shut done all of the enemy action economy. Garven can flechette torp at PS8 in the event of Echo, Nera can 360 no scope flechette torps and the Y wings bring the death by a thousand cuts. The third Y wing double stresses at range 3.
All you have to do is get Whisper into range 3 of your Stresshog (R3-A2) and then use the droid on both attacks. You won't do any damage (2 v 5 then 3 v 4 + 3 v 4) but the aim here is to stress. Failing that, use Nera to torp her. Same thing, you only care about the stress.
With Whisper now sitting on two stress tokens, she WILL perform a green move after her decloak which is either a 2 bank/straight or a 3 straight. Reason I say WILL is because she cannot cloak with stress which means she is now a two hull / two shield ship sitting behind two agility.
The turn that happens, hit her with all three TLT, maybe even Garven and she will die.
Inquisitor: Hit him with the Stresshog or Nera the turn he uses Push the Limit, same situation after that. He will have two to three stress and will have to perform a 1 turn/bank or go straight. With no actions to save him, the TLT will ruin him.
The shuttle will die to sustained TLT fire as will the FO. Don't fire flechettes at the shuttle, they don't do anything and for the love of all things holy stay out of range 1 of the shuttle and pray it isn't Kylo or that Kylo is on board.
2 hours ago, Dave Grant said:RAC + Kylo Whisper is a build I've seen on a few top events (worlds top 16 maybe ??).
I usually put Kylo on Whisper as I'm not a fan of 2 ship lists... But RAC would be effective.
Rebel captive... not really. Jumpmasters don't care too much about stress unless you can double stress them as they have too much green on the dial. It does shut down expertise for the second shot though and reduces there s-looping... but there are better crew for that match-up (Kallus)
You must be referring to:
Rear Admiral:
Veteran Instincts
Emperor Palpatine
Kylo Ren
"Whisper"
Veteran Instincts
Fire Control System
Advanced Cloaking System
Agent Kallus
99 points
Against a two ship list, RAC uses Kylo Ren (Dash or Tel for example) and uses Palpatine to add a critical hit. If its at range 2, RAC generally manages two critical results because of this and it is very difficult to avoid.
"Whisper" tags Dengar or Miranda with Agent Kallus and cleans up.
Both lose to stress mechanics however.
3 hours ago, Viktus106 said:How did you draw those two when he has two of the best the Empire has to offer??
Actually, the fact you have to have Nera is perfect. . 150 points you say?
Garven Dreis:
R2-D6 > Veteran Instincts
Flechette Torps
Integrated Astromech
Nera Dantels:
Deadeye
Flechette Torps
Extra Munitions
Fire Control System
Guidance Chips
Gray Squadron Y Wing
Twin Laser Turret
R2 Astromech
Gray Squadron Y Wing
Twin Laser Turret
R2 Astromech
Gray Squadron Y Wing
Twin Laser Turret
R3-A2
BTL-A4 Title
145 points / 5 point initiative bid because why not?
Take three of the largest debris field you can. If you opponent has a PS8, give him initiative so he moves first, unless he uses Echo instead, in which case, you need initiative.
Key here is to stress his list into oblivion and shut done all of the enemy action economy. Garven can flechette torp at PS8 in the event of Echo, Nera can 360 no scope flechette torps and the Y wings bring the death by a thousand cuts. The third Y wing double stresses at range 3.
All you have to do is get Whisper into range 3 of your Stresshog (R3-A2) and then use the droid on both attacks. You won't do any damage (2 v 5 then 3 v 4 + 3 v 4) but the aim here is to stress. Failing that, use Nera to torp her. Same thing, you only care about the stress.With Whisper now sitting on two stress tokens, she WILL perform a green move after her decloak which is either a 2 bank/straight or a 3 straight. Reason I say WILL is because she cannot cloak with stress which means she is now a two hull / two shield ship sitting behind two agility.
The turn that happens, hit her with all three TLT, maybe even Garven and she will die.
Inquisitor: Hit him with the Stresshog or Nera the turn he uses Push the Limit, same situation after that. He will have two to three stress and will have to perform a 1 turn/bank or go straight. With no actions to save him, the TLT will ruin him.
The shuttle will die to sustained TLT fire as will the FO. Don't fire flechettes at the shuttle, they don't do anything and for the love of all things holy stay out of range 1 of the shuttle and pray it isn't Kylo or that Kylo is on board.
I was thinking stress was the answer also but the Phantom doesn't HAVE to decloak, does it? It could just stay cloaked and make it's green maneuver to clear stress. Granted, it wouldn't be able to fire but it would still have the 4-5 defense dice, right?
1 hour ago, drail14me said:I was thinking stress was the answer also but the Phantom doesn't HAVE to decloak, does it? It could just stay cloaked and make it's green maneuver to clear stress. Granted, it wouldn't be able to fire but it would still have the 4-5 defense dice, right?
If you put two to three stress on it then that is going to be two to three turns of predictable movement without it firing or taking either a focus or evade action.
Four naked evade dice versus two TLT Y wing attacks, maybe even three are fantastic odds for you. You could even have Nera fire a flechette at her for good measure.
And if they survive and you put yet ANOTHER two to three stress on her? Well, she is good as dead then anyway.
Edit: Also, TLT and Flechette via Nera are all 360 secondary weapons, all you have to do is get her in range 3 and its your modified dice versus her four unmodified.
9 hours ago, drail14me said:Gonna be real hard to get him in range 1 with that B-wing.
What about stressing him? I'm guessing if he has stress, he'll just stay cloaked and fly green to clear but if he's cloaked, at least he's not shooting, right?
That's why I said pray. At least it's a range 1 bubble.
On 6/20/2017 at 4:07 AM, Viktus106 said:With Whisper now sitting on two stress tokens, she WILL perform a green move after her decloak which is either a 2 bank/straight or a 3 straight. Reason I say WILL is because she cannot cloak with stress which means she is now a two hull / two shield ship sitting behind two agility.
I've been lurking 'cause I'm thinking of doing something with Phantoms for a store tourney, but I need to brush up on cloaking rules - you say cannot cloak with a stress, but does that mean the effect of ACD cannot be used while stressed?
Edit: Never mind, found the card...
Edited by WarriorPoetThe only 4 pilot ships with obvious and required upgrades to work are always in trouble. Phantom, Scyk and Starviper released with almost mandatory title in box, strikers with no upgrade slots... FFG might have overcompensated lately by giving ships too many slots, well one faction at least, and have been doing a good job on releasing fixes but the Phantom really wanted a real other option to VI and ACD.
Before it was clarified the Adv sensors + double decloak and a SPA was at least interesting and different than SPA. I also suspect that there were other cloak options planned for future release until they saw how broken it was. I'd love to see those options.
Just like the Biggs, jumpmasters, Soontir, Fenn holding back design space discussions, I'd give up ACD in a heartbeat if it was replaced with a more viable option and meant we saw more of the ships on the table.
Edited by Rakky Wistol10 minutes ago, Rakky Wistol said:The only 4 pilot ships with obvious and required upgrades to work are always in trouble. Phantom, Scyk and Starviper released with almost mandatory title in box, strikers with no upgrade slots... FFG might have overcompensated lately by giving ships too many slots, well one faction at least, and have been doing a good job on releasing fixes but the Phantom really wanted a real other option to VI and ACD.
Before it was clarified the Adv sensors + double decloak and a SPA was at least interesting and different than SPA. I also suspect that there were other cloak options planned for future release until they saw how broken it was. I'd love to see those options.
Just like the Biggs, jumpmasters, Soontir, Fenn holding back design space discussions, I'd give up ACD in a heartbeat if it was replaced with a more viable option and meant we saw more of the ships on the table.
Biggs, Whisper and maybe Soontir I see holding back designers a bit; I'm not sure Scum has any restriction in their design space, they seem to be the open-ended faction. If they do have any limitations, it doesn't show in their ship expansions at all.