The wording on Task Force Antilles makes me think it works with Major Derlin. I.e the other ship taking damage for you can exhaust Derlin to take 0 damage.

I suspect the two unknown ship cards may be rebel versions of the imperial carrier.

5 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

5. Resolve Damage:

The attacker can resolve one of its critical effects. Then the attacker determines the total damage amount. Then the defending squadron or hull zone suffers that total damage, one point at a time .

5 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Yes, but only one copy of the TF Antilles card is the target of the damage, which is the trigger effect - so they are identical that way...

...having multiple TF cards as targets is the same as biggs having multiple X-wings as targets...

The trick is - is each point of damage suffered a separate trigger or not ... If they are separate tiggers, then the Once-per-Trigger event doesn't stop them from passing off multiple damage..... Of course with TF:A, you're limiting to one point to each target because that target then "turns off" via exhuast.

Biggs would not be so limited...

Alright, here's my attempt to rationalize Biggs as a non-repeating effect...

Posting Biggs' text for reference: "Before a friendly squadron with ESCORT at distance 1 suffers damage during an attack, you may reduce the total damage by 1. If you do, choose a friendly squadron with ESCORT at distance 1. That squadron suffers 1 damage."

Per the rule you posted, resolving damage is a three step process:

1. Resolve crits
2. Determine total damage
3. Suffer damage one at a time.

Biggs' ability is a check against total damage , which is determined during step 2, above. Subtracting from total damage doesn't change the predetermined total damage number, it creates a new number that has been reduced. In other words, x - 1 = y, the value of x never changes.

So I read that as meaning two things, either or both of which could be true, both of which prevent multiple Biggsitizations:

1. Total damage has already been reduced by 1, so it cannot be reduced by 1 again (think XX-9s + Standard Crit + Fire-Control Teams: first damage card has already been dealt face up, so another first damage card can't be dealt face up again)
2. Triggering Biggs again wouldn't further reduce total damage by an additional 1, it would reduce the original total by 1 again (i.e., do nothing). To use the simple equation above, two Biggs' effects would be: x - 1 = y, then x - 1 = y. It would not be x - 1 = y, then y - 1 = z.

So even if we assume #1 above is not true, which would kill the double effect outright, then triggering Biggs a second time would create extra damage assuming #2 is true.

Let's go through that step-by-step:

1. I attack Biggs for 3 total damage
2. He triggers his ability
3. Total Damage is reduced, so 3 - 1 = 2
4. He deals 1 damage to a fellow X-Wing
5. Biggs would take 2 and the X-Wing would take 1, but...
6. He triggers the ability again on that same attack
7. Total Damage is reduced, so 3 - 1 = 2
8. He deals 1 damage to the fellow X-Wing
9. For a total of 2 damage on Biggs and 2 on the fellow X-Wing.

That's 4 damage, which my advisors (they are the best people, tremendous) have assured me is more than the original 3 damage of the attack! In other words, it would be the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals, maybe ever.

TF Antilles is completely different wording. It says it "suffers 1 of your damage instead" and doesn't reference total damage, at all. Since it's also not a "while," effect, it seems like it's in the clear for multiple uses.

Is this air tight? Meeeeeh... Is it enough for me to justify not letting Biggs activate his ability twice so as to not bust the game until FFG tells me otherwise? Yessir, yessir it is.

I have to say, I feel a bit underwhelmed by the Task Force titles. Sure they seems like coming handy but not as much as a dual-activation title would have been

By the way, the low cost mans that Rieekan definitely cam back to the table. 7-8 activation Rebel fleets anyone? Not even focusing on suicide rams?

If there is only 1 of each TF upgrade cards in each pack, I may have to go FULL NELSON !)

How did turned a HH article thread in an intend of nerfing Biggs? Ahhh im so tired of been proved right again and again.

There are two of each TF cards, if you count the facedown cards(aka the doubles) the numbers match

9 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

That can immedaitely be used by both factions? Yes.

Otherwise, the Fleet Commands are Unique, but not Rebel-Restricted by card , just by Upgrade Slot availability at the moment.

Don't forget the Experimental Retrofits.

Did FFG not learn that we NEED CLEAR WORDING ON CARDS!! We are SMART and will think on all possibilities of use THUS REQUIRING CLEARING WORD FOR LIMITATIONS AND POSSIBILITIES

I'm looking forward to External Racks on VSD-Is. The front arc of a VSD-I rarely fires multiple times at black dice range and this cheap upgrade can ensure you make it count. Also if opponents (naturally try to) avoid the arc and come in from the side then 2 red, 3 black and a CF dial can give them a rather nasty surprize as they try to use APTs against you.

Hopefully we will get 2 E-Rack cards per hammerhead box.

Not sure if it's already been posted, but love that card art of the Hammerhead smashing the Gozanti!

18 hours ago, Trevor Goodchild said:

Not sure if it's already been posted, but love that card art of the Hammerhead smashing the Gozanti!

Yeah it's pretty cool. My favorite though is the art on the scout corvette, with the HH coming down over the ISD.

3 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Yeah it's pretty cool My favorite though is the art on the scout corvette, with the HH coming down over the ISD.

Really? I was going to say I liked the torpedo one more haha.

Regardless, I've become more and more impressed with the art lately on the cards, even if they aren't 100% accurate

I'm also hoping that the Quad Battery Turrets can turn the Torpedo in to a fairly effective squadron hunter for the Rebels.

So why shouldn't I take 3 of these with spinal, gunnery teams, and TF Antilles? 7 more points than a TRC90, but much more firepower.

2 hours ago, gorgonshead said:

So why shouldn't I take 3 of these with spinal, gunnery teams, and TF Antilles? 7 more points than a TRC90, but much more firepower.

Because that's 21 points more than TRC90s, are less survivable, only gain their additional firepower at short range, and every use of TRCs is less defensive ability due to the singular evade.

18 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Because that's 21 points more than TRC90s, are less survivable, only gain their additional firepower at short range, and every use of TRCs is less defensive ability due to the singular evade.

I understand you on the 21 pts and the less survivable fronts. I'm noticing how you get an extra attack with a 3 red die battery and 2 rerolls. That is the firepower of an assault frigate with high consistency on a small base long range artillery ship. I don't want to get into close range, and because I'm not using TRCs, I can still defend myself.

8 minutes ago, gorgonshead said:

I understand you on the 21 pts and the less survivable fronts. I'm noticing how you get an extra attack with a 3 red die battery and 2 rerolls. That is the firepower of an assault frigate with high consistency on a small base long range artillery ship. I don't want to get into close range, and because I'm not using TRCs, I can still defend myself.

Double arc also less effective, and nonexistent at long range where a trc90 is dropping 4 damage as a floor.

3 hours ago, gorgonshead said:

So why shouldn't I take 3 of these with spinal, gunnery teams, and TF Antilles? 7 more points than a TRC90, but much more firepower.

Actually its 9 points more than a TRC90, 60 vs 51 points. It has one more red out the front, yes, but with a double arc the TRC has three red dice as well and can TRC two of them if need be. Also it is potential for more firepower if you compare front with front but the TRC means the TRC90 can be more reliable at getting damage out there.

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

Because that's 21 points more than TRC90s, are less survivable, only gain their additional firepower at short range, and every use of TRCs is less defensive ability due to the singular evade.

The additional firepower is at long range if you are just comparing amount of red dice thrown.

I will say the 3 Hammerheads with TF Antilles and especially a Shields to Maximum Pelta is depending on commander for your forces about as defensive as 3 TRC90s without a StM Pelta.

However the TRC90 synergizes better with Ackbar, Mon Mothma and Cracken than the Hammerhead does.

I've been trying to theory craft these Hammerheads for how I play and ... I just can't. People say you can run them with Ackbar but TRC90s do it better and cheaper. You can take gobs of them because they are cheap but they are only 3 points cheaper than a comparable CR90 and the CR90 is for me just better. I can try to run down flotillas with a CR90. With a Hammerhead you have to rely on a really good front shot because your side arc means diddly. Its also not fast enough to reliably or as reliably as a CR90 can ram that flotilla.

I get it is a different beast, the CR90 is happy at long and medium range while the Hammerhead wants to get in close but it just seems like it will be doing is dying.

1 hour ago, gorgonshead said:

I understand you on the 21 pts and the less survivable fronts. I'm noticing how you get an extra attack with a 3 red die battery and 2 rerolls. That is the firepower of an assault frigate with high consistency on a small base long range artillery ship. I don't want to get into close range, and because I'm not using TRCs, I can still defend myself.

Are you meaning TF Organa? Because otherwise you aren't getting rerolls.

I think a Hammerhead as you have it with TF Organa is as strong offensively with a CR90 and I think TF Antilles Hammerheads with a StM Pelta is as strong defensively as a CR90 but both of these options are more expensive than a CR90. So, I still prefer the CR90 because it is defensible, its cheaper, it synergizes better with a few admirals, can hunt flotillas if need be and more maneuverable .

Hm, for some reason what I copied and pasted is in bold and I can't get it out of it. Weird.

Edit: Got the bolding fixed.

4 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

Double arc also less effective, and nonexistent at long range where a trc90 is dropping 4 damage as a floor.

I'm willing to give it to the Hammerhead here because with Gunnery teams it is 3 red with 2 rerolls twice out the front, so if someone wanted to do the math they could but that seems pretty comparable to one red that can be a double or crit and then two reds with the chance to set one of them to a double or crit. Sure the HH loses on the double arc and if you can swing around to its side or rear arcs you get to just pound the HH with impunity.

Ugh, I wish I liked these ships better but I just don't. I find the CR90 much more newbie friendly which is good for me.

I think my favourite is just the cheap disposable option. Fireship configuration - Hammerhead Torpedo + disposable launchers + Ordnance experts - 43 points with some solid damage output. Only problem is that it needs to get in close and dies to a stiff breeze so I'm basically thinking it only works with Reikan.

So... How many hhs do you want to get? How many do you think are effective?

While I think a mass of 4 hh is effective, I'm really not sure I want to get more than 1 copy of the hhs and the Quasar.

I love how every picture of the hammerhead in this article shows different shield dials, each more wrong than the last.

29 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

So... How many hhs do you want to get? How many do you think are effective?

While I think a mass of 4 hh is effective, I'm really not sure I want to get more than 1 copy of the hhs and the Quasar.

I feel like i need at least 4 external racks and a minimum of two disposable capacitors