Since we got quite a lot of EU stuff in the game, how great would be a "Rogue Squadron" or "Wraith Squadron" T-65-Title?

Not only could you buff the good old X-Wing in a similar way the Vaksai title would (though of course variation delights), but by utilizing a similar restriction like Royal Guard TiE you could ban Biggs from getting it. The Rebels could finally represent their own Elite Unit.

Think about it, Wedge, Luke and Wes tagging and bagging in their Rogue Squad T-65's.

18 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Because it was literally one of the first two ships created, unfortunately. FFG probably had the wave 1 ships ready to go as a group, so all they new was "needs to be better than a Y-wing and worse than a TIE fighter".

This is definitely true. It still doesn't mean that it's dial is fine now though. It could use a boost.

Quote

The lack of greens is fine - because R2 Astromech is a thing. If you look at the X-wing expansion pack and the Y-wing pack that came out simultaneously, in fact, you got Expert Handling (adding a barrel roll ability) and R2 Astromech - which combined made Wedge handle a just as well as the TIE fighters available at the same time.

Also true. But if you are using R2 astromech, you are not using one of the much more interesting Astromechs, and where is the fun in that. Also using your EPT to get barrel roll is so wave 1. But it might be a good idea in my next list using T65s.

Quote

Of course, the game's power creep has moved on so far since then - now, a ship which doesn't have talon rolls or segnor's loops and a 'free' reposition of some kind is considered unmanouvrable.

This is also true, unfortunately. ?

Quote

The thing is, the X-wing is a lot closer to good than a lot of people give it credit for. A T-65 with R2 Astromech and Vectored Thrusters is a **** tasty little ship; it just pays too many points for what it does, and lacks the X-wing specific 'extra health' card of Integrated Astromech, which effectively makes it more expensive still. But it's too expensive , not bad .

Exactly. A title that lets it take IA and additional mod at a discount would be great.

Quote

The other problem is that simply giving the ship cheap access to vectored thrusters or engine upgrade isn't that amazing. Generic pilots with access to reposition actions rarely use them - because they can't use them reactively, and a bad shot with a token is generally as effective as a good shot without one (or vice versa if defending). Cards which give you 'free' repositions (adaptive ailerons, BB-8, cloaking device, sabine) on the other hand, are useful, even at lower pilot skill.

This is true, but every ship doesn't need a free reposition affect, nor is it good game design. If a title gave a discount on points, made more of the dial green, and allowed you to take IA and VT(or just added barrel roll) it would make 5 Rookie Pilots with R2 astromech and IA and VT, or 4 with cool droids or one Xwing Ace available in 100pt games and that would be awesome.

Quote

To be honest, my personal view is that the T-65 really wants a treatment like the Khiraxz Vaksai title. Not identical - I don't like duplicating card effects - but similar. The best way to draw 'clear water' between the T-65 and T-70 is to make the T-65 cheaper - you don't need to make the T-65 much cheaper to drop it into the 'heavy swarm' category like the striker, khiraxz, heavy scyk, etc where you can pack 5 generics in a squad.

The T-70 is tougher (extra shield) and faster (speed 3 straight greens, boost, talon roll and access to primed thrusters). I don't think there's anything wrong with its points cost. But the T65 costs that touch too much, such that often run out of useful slots before points - you can easily spend points on torpedoes, for example, but without extra munitions and guidance chips they're a so-so investment....but do you really want to give up integrated astromech?

I think the Vaksai is the biggest indicator of what people should be looking at in power; the Khiraxz is the closest 'brother' to the X-wing in game - similar dial (with a slight speed down on turns and up on straights), same total hits, similar stats, and a pretty comparable top pilot.

Yeah the Vaksai is a great title and will bring the Khirax up to speed. A similar Xwing fix would be great.

On 6/21/2017 at 4:33 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Because it was literally one of the first two ships created, unfortunately. FFG probably had the wave 1 ships ready to go as a group, so all they new was "needs to be better than a Y-wing and worse than a TIE fighter".

This is definitely true. It still doesn't mean that it's dial is fine now though. It could use a boost.

Quote

The lack of greens is fine - because R2 Astromech is a thing. If you look at the X-wing expansion pack and the Y-wing pack that came out simultaneously, in fact, you got Expert Handling (adding a barrel roll ability) and R2 Astromech - which combined made Wedge handle a just as well as the TIE fighters available at the same time.

Also true. But if you are using R2 astromech, you are not using one of the much more interesting Astromechs, and where is the fun in that. Also using your EPT to get barrel roll is so wave 1. But it might be a good idea in my next list using T65s.

Quote

Of course, the game's power creep has moved on so far since then - now, a ship which doesn't have talon rolls or segnor's loops and a 'free' reposition of some kind is considered unmanouvrable.

This is also true, unfortunately. ?

Quote

The thing is, the X-wing is a lot closer to good than a lot of people give it credit for. A T-65 with R2 Astromech and Vectored Thrusters is a **** tasty little ship; it just pays too many points for what it does, and lacks the X-wing specific 'extra health' card of Integrated Astromech, which effectively makes it more expensive still. But it's too expensive , not bad .

Exactly. A title that lets it take IA and additional mod at a discount would be great.

Quote

The other problem is that simply giving the ship cheap access to vectored thrusters or engine upgrade isn't that amazing. Generic pilots with access to reposition actions rarely use them - because they can't use them reactively, and a bad shot with a token is generally as effective as a good shot without one (or vice versa if defending). Cards which give you 'free' repositions (adaptive ailerons, BB-8, cloaking device, sabine) on the other hand, are useful, even at lower pilot skill.

This is true, but every ship doesn't need a free reposition affect, nor is it good game design. If a title gave a discount on points, made more of the dial green, and allowed you to take IA and VT(or just added barrel roll) it would make 5 Rookie Pilots with R2 astromech and IA and VT, or 4 with cool droids or one Xwing Ace available in 100pt games and that would be awesome.

Quote

To be honest, my personal view is that the T-65 really wants a treatment like the Khiraxz Vaksai title. Not identical - I don't like duplicating card effects - but similar. The best way to draw 'clear water' between the T-65 and T-70 is to make the T-65 cheaper - you don't need to make the T-65 much cheaper to drop it into the 'heavy swarm' category like the striker, khiraxz, heavy scyk, etc where you can pack 5 generics in a squad.

The T-70 is tougher (extra shield) and faster (speed 3 straight greens, boost, talon roll and access to primed thrusters). I don't think there's anything wrong with its points cost. But the T65 costs that touch too much, such that often run out of useful slots before points - you can easily spend points on torpedoes, for example, but without extra munitions and guidance chips they're a so-so investment....but do you really want to give up integrated astromech?

I think the Vaksai is the biggest indicator of what people should be looking at in power; the Khiraxz is the closest 'brother' to the X-wing in game - similar dial (with a slight speed down on turns and up on straights), same total hits, similar stats, and a pretty comparable top pilot.

Yeah the Vaksai is a great title and will bring the Khirax up to speed. A similar Xwing fix would be great.

On 6/21/2017 at 4:33 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Because it was literally one of the first two ships created, unfortunately. FFG probably had the wave 1 ships ready to go as a group, so all they new was "needs to be better than a Y-wing and worse than a TIE fighter".

This is definitely true. It still doesn't mean that it's dial is fine now though. It could use a boost.

Quote

The lack of greens is fine - because R2 Astromech is a thing. If you look at the X-wing expansion pack and the Y-wing pack that came out simultaneously, in fact, you got Expert Handling (adding a barrel roll ability) and R2 Astromech - which combined made Wedge handle a just as well as the TIE fighters available at the same time.

Also true. But if you are using R2 astromech, you are not using one of the much more interesting Astromechs, and where is the fun in that. Also using your EPT to get barrel roll is so wave 1. But it might be a good idea in my next list using T65s.

Quote

Of course, the game's power creep has moved on so far since then - now, a ship which doesn't have talon rolls or segnor's loops and a 'free' reposition of some kind is considered unmanouvrable.

This is also true, unfortunately. ?

Quote

The thing is, the X-wing is a lot closer to good than a lot of people give it credit for. A T-65 with R2 Astromech and Vectored Thrusters is a **** tasty little ship; it just pays too many points for what it does, and lacks the X-wing specific 'extra health' card of Integrated Astromech, which effectively makes it more expensive still. But it's too expensive , not bad .

Exactly. A title that lets it take IA and additional mod at a discount would be great.

Quote

The other problem is that simply giving the ship cheap access to vectored thrusters or engine upgrade isn't that amazing. Generic pilots with access to reposition actions rarely use them - because they can't use them reactively, and a bad shot with a token is generally as effective as a good shot without one (or vice versa if defending). Cards which give you 'free' repositions (adaptive ailerons, BB-8, cloaking device, sabine) on the other hand, are useful, even at lower pilot skill.

This is true, but every ship doesn't need a free reposition affect, nor is it good game design. If a title gave a discount on points, made more of the dial green, and allowed you to take IA and VT(or just added barrel roll) it would make 5 Rookie Pilots with R2 astromech and IA and VT, or 4 with cool droids or one Xwing Ace available in 100pt games and that would be awesome.

Quote

To be honest, my personal view is that the T-65 really wants a treatment like the Khiraxz Vaksai title. Not identical - I don't like duplicating card effects - but similar. The best way to draw 'clear water' between the T-65 and T-70 is to make the T-65 cheaper - you don't need to make the T-65 much cheaper to drop it into the 'heavy swarm' category like the striker, khiraxz, heavy scyk, etc where you can pack 5 generics in a squad.

The T-70 is tougher (extra shield) and faster (speed 3 straight greens, boost, talon roll and access to primed thrusters). I don't think there's anything wrong with its points cost. But the T65 costs that touch too much, such that often run out of useful slots before points - you can easily spend points on torpedoes, for example, but without extra munitions and guidance chips they're a so-so investment....but do you really want to give up integrated astromech?

I think the Vaksai is the biggest indicator of what people should be looking at in power; the Khiraxz is the closest 'brother' to the X-wing in game - similar dial (with a slight speed down on turns and up on straights), same total hits, similar stats, and a pretty comparable top pilot.

Yeah the Vaksai is a great title and will bring the Khirax up to speed. A similar Xwing fix would be great.

On 6/21/2017 at 0:04 PM, DampfGecko said:

Since we got quite a lot of EU stuff in the game, how great would be a "Rogue Squadron" or "Wraith Squadron" T-65-Title?

Not only could you buff the good old X-Wing in a similar way the Vaksai title would (though of course variation delights), but by utilizing a similar restriction like Royal Guard TiE you could ban Biggs from getting it. The Rebels could finally represent their own Elite Unit.

Think about it, Wedge, Luke and Wes tagging and bagging in their Rogue Squad T-65's.

I'm all for a Rogue Squadron title. Make it PS 6 or greater to exclude Biggs. Then make a second title, something like "Yavin Survivor" and make it PS 4 or lower and again exclude Biggs.(and since he died at Yavin, it would be fitting)Make the Rogue Squadron one give a free barrel roll action. Make the Yavin Survivor title a minus point cost so you can get 5 generic Xwings in a list.

1 hour ago, JJFDVORAK said:

I'm all for a Rogue Squadron title. Make it PS 6 or greater to exclude Biggs. Then make a second title, something like "Yavin Survivor" and make it PS 4 or lower and again exclude Biggs.(and since he died at Yavin, it would be fitting)Make the Rogue Squadron one give a free barrel roll action. Make the Yavin Survivor title a minus point cost so you can get 5 generic Xwings in a list.

That's what I'm talking about. Maybe even let the T-65s make Talon Rolls or something (similar to the HotR Millenium Falcon works) to represent the Squadron's tendency to think outside of the box and come up with new maneuvres on the fly.

Wouldn't it be nice to basically imply that what the T-70s will eventually able to do was invented by the Rebels' top pilots? I have always loved that nice soft integration of fluff in X-Wing.

9 minutes ago, DampfGecko said:

That's what I'm talking about. Maybe even let the T-65s make Talon Rolls or something (similar to the HotR Millenium Falcon works) to represent the Squadron's tendency to think outside of the box and come up with new maneuvres on the fly.

Wouldn't it be nice to basically imply that what the T-70s will eventually able to do was invented by the Rebels' top pilots? I have always loved that nice soft integration of fluff in X-Wing.

I'm not sure I want the T65 to get a T-roll. Maybe a S-loop. But a T-roll is too much like the T70. Also the title should allow you to take an action before you get the stress from the S-LOOP.