It's pretty simple: Poe/Maz makes it so experimenting with slower decks (support decks, mill decks, ramp-up decks, etc) essentially a waste of time. You create a huge card-pool of great cards with tons of tinkering experiments you can design with them, then a deck emerges that makes half the card pool valueless.

I hate to admit it, but I'm on the "Fix Poe/Maz or I'm leaving the game" team now. Honestly it's just poor game design. So is 3-5 action-cheats in a row, also really bad game design. Who wants to just sit there with no options while your opponent murders you?

Die removal and resource/card destruction are very real things in this game now. SoR has many ways of slowing your opponent down and keeping them from getting the resources they need. If you are running a slower deck, you will need a few ways to defend yourself. How are you preventing or avoiding damage? How are you gaining resources while keeping your opponent from gaining the ones she needs? Also, when playing against a fast deck you need to take advantage of the mulligan rule. What card(s) do you need to protect yourself or get your deck going quickly? Everything that is not that card(s) should be discarded in hopes of drawing what is needed.

A side thought:

The days of not needing protecting against powerful support and upgrade cards is over. When building a deck, you must consider how your deck can handle support and upgrade cards that are game winners for your opponent.

I personally would like to see a best 2/3 style tournament arise where players are allowed to bring a 10 card side board. Being able to change out cards between rounds would keep speed decks from being the go-to (or at least give other deck types a chance to respond).

Yes, 2 out of 3 is good, a 10 card side board is a little high, Magic does 15, which is a 4th of a deck. 10 would be a 3rd.

All I can say as a Hero deck user if they "fix" the Maz/Poe deck it is back to using the Rey/Han deck and the Second Chance/Weapon Belt combo...er, wait, they want that "fixed" as well. At what point in time are we going to see a solid Hero deck besides that of Rey/Han that can win tournaments?

At this point in time Villain decks are taking the tournament scene and have not looked back. I know, I know, maybe next set which we have been hearing since the first set as people were for certain the Hero decks would get some much needed help and options to compete with Villain decks in the tournament scene. And do not get me started on the Blue Hero deck options...all I can say is good luck running them in a tournament.

You "fix" Maz/Poe there goes the other option besides Rey/Han.

You "fix" the Second Chance/Weapon Belt and there goes a lot more for the Hero side.

Keep taking away from the Hero side and you really need to make Destiny all about Villains. Really, take away the Hero side and make it a Villain only game as the Hero side is already at a HUGE disadvantage and it looks to only get worse should these issues pointed out get "fixed". But wait, they will for most certain be taken care of next set, right? Yea, I am happy to see so much balance at tournaments where you will find how many Villain decks and for Hero decks you have Rey/Han and as of now, Maz/Poe. Keep up the balance of the game as it has been spot on so far...*rolls eyes*.

1 hour ago, johnwiser said:

All I can say as a Hero deck user if they "fix" the Maz/Poe deck it is back to using the Rey/Han deck and the Second Chance/Weapon Belt combo...er, wait, they want that "fixed" as well. At what point in time are we going to see a solid Hero deck besides that of Rey/Han that can win tournaments?

I think this is actually perfectly in line with the OP's point that the card design and balance in Destiny is already showing dramatic cracks. It's never been FFG's strong suit, but this one seems to be falling apart much faster.

The only real problem I see with Poe/Maz is that Poe somewhat invalidates supports in the long run, because with his special, you don't actually need to buy the support, you just trash it. He basically turns all supports into crazy good events, which means that supports only really exist in the game right now for the sole purpose of being trashed by Poe. I can see a point in the near future where enough supports have been released that Poe has a deck with 20 or so supports and they all end up in his discard pile. I'm ok with Poe/Maz existing, I think it's a fair combo, but I kinda wish Poe had to spend a resource to use his ability but then could play the support for one cheaper or something, to incentivize actually playing and using said support as a support. It kinda feels like infinite Ace in the Hole but with a better card pool to draw from (supports vs. upgrades) and instant focus and resolve of said dice. Just a little overpowered when you consider he doesn't actually have to pay anything if he doesn't feel like playing the actual support. He gets to save several resources, actions, etc. all in one play.

Playing supports from the discard is not that different than playing upgrades with IG-88, he just doesn't have Maz

I'd like to point out that Poe's ability is infinitely stronger than FN-2199, and not that justified by the price. See Krennic, or Grevious for similar costs. The ability to directly resolve a side in a game of d6 chance is... well, kind of breaking the immersion. Who is this guy Poe? Next Emperror?

IMO the easiest solution is that he has to roll the die (kind of Ace in the Hole effect) instead of resolving a side.

Maz is OK, double Fast Hands, but low on health.

18 minutes ago, player996970 said:

Playing supports from the discard is not that different than playing upgrades with IG-88, he just doesn't have Maz

It's actually way different. Think about it this way:

Scenario 1: Both me and IG-88 have vibroknucklers. I pay two to play the knucklers. Done. Iggy has to discard them, rerolling some dice or something, then get that special, then use the special. Then he's already rolled in so they're unusable this round. So Iggy saved two resources, but lost a dice, an action, and his vibroknucklers roll in a round later than mine.

Scenario 2: Both me and Poe have a U-Wing. I spend 5 resources, play the U-Wing, roll it out, spend another dice showing focus or discard cards for rerolls to get the side I want, then resolve it. Poe spends his dice, hucks the U-Wing in the dumpster, resolves any side he wants. So Poe spent no resources compared to my 5, spent about the same number of dice and cards to get the result he wanted on that dice, and is about three or four actions ahead of me. My only "advantage" is that next round I Again get to waste an action rolling that U-Wing into my pool, while Poe just hucks another support into his discard pile.

Just for fun, maybe some day you should try a game where you allow Maz to be a villain, and play eIG-88/Maz. I think you'll see they're not actually that equivalent. Poor Iggy...

Don't get me wrong, I was referring to his ability to play them from the discard. I hate the ability to resolve a side and I agree the combination with being able to play it is way too much, especially on someone with 12 health sitting on 18 points. Although paying 5 for the U-Wing sounds like something you just can't do often.

My Grievous "I was Blue" the Cyborg disagrees on the health value and cried out his eyes on the ability...

I did want to say that I don't really agree with the saltiness of the OP. Poe/Maz is good, but Poe should be! The opening crawl of The Force Awakens literally calls him the best pilot in the Resistance! It's just too bad that he's made supports something that gets hucked in the dumpster rather than put on the table. I really like supports and want to see them used how they were intended rather than treated like garbage.

I don't think tons of free actions are a problem. Action cheating is all fine, but just free actions alone don't win a game. There's plenty of good, slow decks, and hopefully more characters like Snap will continue to counter the speedy decks.

P.S. why doesn't an iPhone let you add words to its dictionary? I'm so sick of Maz getting spellchecked to Max...

So how do you beat Poe/maz? Any ideas?

Action cheating is OK, cheating dice rolling is not.

Example: Ace in the Hole is two-card color-restricted combo that works sometimes. The fact that you can sneak Crime Lord is mad OK by the randomness of the roll.

Poe might be the Resistance best pilot but that doesn't call for makng him broken.

4 minutes ago, player996970 said:

Action cheating is OK, cheating dice rolling is not.

Example: Ace in the Hole is two-card color-restricted combo that works sometimes. The fact that you can sneak Crime Lord is mad OK by the randomness of the roll.

Poe might be the Resistance best pilot but that doesn't call for makng him broken.

Agreed, maybe they fix "ace in the hole" so it is more fair for the villains?

Just now, RocketDarth said:

Agreed, maybe they fix "ace in the hole" so it is more fair for the villains?

What's next? Power up characters? Or just tone down Poe so he would be more at... other characters power level?

1 minute ago, player996970 said:

What's next? Power up characters? Or just tone down Poe so he would be more at... other characters power level?

Maybe something to spend extra points on?

Apart from Maz? Or you mean for villains?

Fo

1 minute ago, player996970 said:

Apart from Maz? Or yiu mean for villains?

For any/both sides. Like you said maybe a power up or something.

Like when you roll a blank you can re-roll it for two points or something

19 minutes ago, RocketDarth said:

So how do you beat Poe/maz? Any ideas?

You will not beat Poe/Maz more often than Poe/Maz beats you. Here is why:

1) The character combo by itself guarantees at least 1 Poe special 70% of the time, per round (either roll a Poe special naturally, or roll Maz's focus).

2) The Poe/Maz deck can be loaded with enough expensive upgrades and supports to guarantee that you'll see at least one heavy-hitter (Falcon, Thermal, U-Wing) per round. This means that they are guaranteed to hit you with 3-4 damage off of Poe's special 70% of the time. He also has a 2 range and a 3-for-1 range side

3) Dice control is not strong enough to remove both Poe's die. Doesn't matter if you are Villain or Hero. Spot removal doesn't get rid of that other Poe die unless you are lucky enough to draw into 2 such cards and are willing to forgo your entire turn's worth of resources. Mass removal requires you to control the battlefield (Defensive Position) or be playing a particular color (Blue: Guard and Feel Your Anger).

4) Even if you have the cards to control Poe's dice, you'll have to deal with Fast Hands and Planetary Uprising.

5) Beating Poe/Maz to the claim helps with both removal (by allowing you to roll out dice for Lothcat and Mouse/He Doesn't Like You, etc.) and preventing Planetary Uprising from triggering, but is way too costly. Poe/Maz can claim having already dealt at least 3 damage to you by Turn 3 every single round. This means you'll have to claim on Turn 2 to get the leg up on Poe/Maz for the next round. But can you deal enough damage by your second turn to stay in the game? By claiming you're not pursuing your win condition, you're just trying to prevent their win condition from firing.

... now that is not to say Poe/Maz never loses. This is a game with dice, cards, and randomness, after all. But that won't happen often, because no other deck allows you to pursue your win condition with as much consistency as Poe/Maz. In my experience, the best way to give yourself a chance of beating Poe/Maz is to do this:

- Play a more aggressive deck: kill Maz first, unless you can smack down Poe by Turn 2

- Play an ultra-control deck: go for hand control and mill their deck out

- Never pick Throne Room as a battlefield

- Go for Shields and healing long enough for Poe/Maz to mill themselves out

- Pray they don't draw into their big upgrades/supports.

18 minutes ago, RocketDarth said:

For any/both sides. Like you said maybe a power up or something.

Nothing good ever came down from speeding up games, usually it makes half the sets unplayable (more like obsolete). If they make silver bullets, that won't help the majority of the decks. Right now we literally have one (Poe/Maz) or two tier 1 decks (counting Vader Raider) and then some 1.5 and so on. Not great for the game as a whole.

My best guess is that he would be able to play vehicles only and roll the die, not cheat a side.

Ah, and Hit and Run: activate Poe, activate Maz, resolve a support. Doesn't soynd like a zero cost card, right? Then what makes it sound broken?

FWIW, I do think that Maz is the real problem here. In combo with Poe, she makes his dice both dramatically more reliable and basically immune to most dice removal. Poe was a good character, but not actually broken without Maz because you had to (A) roll the die, and (B) focus into it. Focus requiring an extra action meant that it was often at risk of being removed after spending the focus but before it was resolved.

Maz breaks that. You've now got a VERY strong special side, that has a very, very high probability to hit, and does so in a way that's basically immune to removal. To the extent that Poe's special was overly powerful (and I think wildcards are almost always a bad idea) it was one that could still be counterplayed. No longer.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Poe had some good builds in Awakenings, but was not considered overwhelming until Maz showed up.

It's a problem, but it's not ruining the meta or completely broken. Check out the Chance Cube's recent numbers on the meta:

http://www.thechancecube.com/2017/05/29/meta-tracker-report-week-ending-52717/

more telling perhaps are the tournament results, but even there, Poe/Maz wins less than half the time. It's really good, but it doesn't just insta-win:

http://www.thechancecube.com/meta/2017-store-championships-meta-report/

Using the chance cube as a source, it's a huge problem for the game that one deck is winning over 40% of tourneys. An even bigger problem in my opinion is that poe/maz is extremely unfun to play against, and honestly doesn't really seem fun to play. I haven't played it but I've watch someone just go through the motions. There is minimal skill involved. FFGS has a problem if 1 or 2 decks are not just winning but killing the enjoyment for both new and experienced players. As someone above pointed out, if over half the cards are thrown out as non-competitive, things get stale real quick, esp with only 2 sets released.

5 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

It's a problem, but it's not ruining the meta or completely broken. Check out the Chance Cube's recent numbers on the meta:

http://www.thechancecube.com/2017/05/29/meta-tracker-report-week-ending-52717/

more telling perhaps are the tournament results, but even there, Poe/Maz wins less than half the time. It's really good, but it doesn't just insta-win:

http://www.thechancecube.com/meta/2017-store-championships-meta-report/

Great links, very valuable info. But its hard to use that data to argue against Poe/Maz being oppressive. It wins 43% of Store Championships. Not total games, but Store Championships. And those links show that as of 5/27, Poe/Maz continues on the up-and-up. It hasn't reached its peak yet.