Wondering if anyone has ever approached FFG about selling undecorated models for custom painting? Maybe sell packages of 5 unpainted ships, no cards, dials or stands or anything, just the unpainted ships.

I do a lot of work with model railroads. Undecorated models are a big part of the hobby. Many locomotives and rail cars are available without paint for those of us who like to paint our own. Figured there's be a market for these in X-Wing as well.

The idea has been brought up before. And the general consensus is that the economics doesn't make sense.

In your system where you get literally just the ship, there's no benefit for the end user - you still need to buy 4 X wings in order to fly 4 X wings, though I suppose if you bought a kit of 5, you could have 9 different paint schemes to pick from. Though that's going to be a very limited market of folks who want more ships than they can play with. At a minimum I think you would have to include a dial and a cardboard cut out (perhaps double sided generics)... and I guess the generic pilot cards to go with it. That way you would still have to buy the actual set if you want to fly anything except a generic, and if they come out with a Aces pack, you'd have to buy that for those named. This could provide a cost based incentive to buy bulk unpainted instead of numerous sets.

But now we have to discuss pricing. It would have to be cheaper than buying them individually. In the example of 5 small based ships, this would be $75. Without doing a study on it, let's pick a starting point of $50. This provides a 33% cost savings for buying in bulk unpainted ships, which is probably a decent starting point for the consumer to be interested. FFG is saving on the painting process, which I believe I have previously generously estimated to be about a dollar a ship... And that's it. There's no further savings for FFG. You could potentially argue about shipping costs, but they actually get shipped in a standard size box (of 12 small based, 6 large based), so there's not going to be much saving there... Perhaps you can get a 6 packs of 5 in the same box, so you're actually shipping 2.5x more ships per box... Heck give them a dollar savings there... But now you've essentially doubled the number of SKUs, which not only affects FFG, but the distributors and the FLGS. My guess is that some stores won't even stock the unpainted ones for those reasons.

So, at most, FFG could save ~$1.50 per ship by doing this, but they're losing ~$5 transaction price at the same time, so there's no real incentive. Furthermore, the market is much smaller for something like this, and those who would be interested in it are likely going to buy the painted models to repaint anyways, so it's not like it's additional revenue (which is what it would honestly take in order to make it viable). And then there's the question about how many people are going to buy a pack of 5. Sure, X Wings are iconic and you can fit 4 of them in a list, why not. Same for Y wings. But do you really want 5 TIE Defenders, which is actually 7 once you buy the kits? You can only fly 3 of them at once, and how many paint schemes do you need?


Oh yeah, and then there's potentially licensing issues. FFG has the license for Star Wars to make table top games. They don't have it to make toys or models... I'd argue an unpainted one could be construed as a model, though perhaps they could end up getting away with it, but why chance it?

The painted models take further paint just fine

54 minutes ago, Khyros said:

The idea has been brought up before. And the general consensus is that the economics doesn't make sense.

In your system where you get literally just the ship, there's no benefit for the end user - you still need to buy 4 X wings in order to fly 4 X wings, though I suppose if you bought a kit of 5, you could have 9 different paint schemes to pick from. Though that's going to be a very limited market of folks who want more ships than they can play with. At a minimum I think you would have to include a dial and a cardboard cut out (perhaps double sided generics)... and I guess the generic pilot cards to go with it. That way you would still have to buy the actual set if you want to fly anything except a generic, and if they come out with a Aces pack, you'd have to buy that for those named. This could provide a cost based incentive to buy bulk unpainted instead of numerous sets.

But now we have to discuss pricing. It would have to be cheaper than buying them individually. In the example of 5 small based ships, this would be $75. Without doing a study on it, let's pick a starting point of $50. This provides a 33% cost savings for buying in bulk unpainted ships, which is probably a decent starting point for the consumer to be interested. FFG is saving on the painting process, which I believe I have previously generously estimated to be about a dollar a ship... And that's it. There's no further savings for FFG. You could potentially argue about shipping costs, but they actually get shipped in a standard size box (of 12 small based, 6 large based), so there's not going to be much saving there... Perhaps you can get a 6 packs of 5 in the same box, so you're actually shipping 2.5x more ships per box... Heck give them a dollar savings there... But now you've essentially doubled the number of SKUs, which not only affects FFG, but the distributors and the FLGS. My guess is that some stores won't even stock the unpainted ones for those reasons.

So, at most, FFG could save ~$1.50 per ship by doing this, but they're losing ~$5 transaction price at the same time, so there's no real incentive. Furthermore, the market is much smaller for something like this, and those who would be interested in it are likely going to buy the painted models to repaint anyways, so it's not like it's additional revenue (which is what it would honestly take in order to make it viable). And then there's the question about how many people are going to buy a pack of 5. Sure, X Wings are iconic and you can fit 4 of them in a list, why not. Same for Y wings. But do you really want 5 TIE Defenders, which is actually 7 once you buy the kits? You can only fly 3 of them at once, and how many paint schemes do you need?


Oh yeah, and then there's potentially licensing issues. FFG has the license for Star Wars to make table top games. They don't have it to make toys or models... I'd argue an unpainted one could be construed as a model, though perhaps they could end up getting away with it, but why chance it?

Selling the "undecs" as we call them in the railroad hobby, could easily be a no-frills direct deal from FFG. I wouldn't send them to distributors or local stores. It would be a simple process of FFG getting the factory to dump a bucket worth of models in a box before they hit the paint line. These would ship with the rest of the order from the factory to FFG. FFG would then sell direct to customers. FFG would save on painting, printing of cards and dials and packaging (biggest cost).

Looking at the economics of a model. Retail is $14.95 take off 20% to get dealers cost of approximately $11.96 from the distributor. Take off another 15% for distributor cost from FFG and get about $10.16. Now, take off another $15% to get FFG cost from manufacturer and you get about $8.64 per model. Now, take off printing, stand, dials and packaging and I bet you're down to a painted ship cost of around $4. Honestly, painting probably costs less than .50 per ship so maybe an undec would cost $3.50 from the factory. I'd gladly pay FFG $8 a ship for an undec which they could ship to me in a ziploc bag in a small box packed with peanuts at an additional shipping and handling cost of probably $5? I think there would be a market for that.

As for stands, dials and cards, I'd expect most people wanting to custom paint already have a collection of miniatures anyway. I've got a set of 4 X-wings. If I custom painted 4 and wanted to play with then then I'd just use the stands, dials and cards for the four I have....or make custom cards to match my painted models.

And yes, the current models will take paint just fine. However, I'd much rather paint an $8 blank model than spend $14 on a painted model and get stuff I don't need, dials, cards etc.

1 hour ago, drail14me said:

Selling the "undecs" as we call them in the railroad hobby, could easily be a no-frills direct deal from FFG. I wouldn't send them to distributors or local stores. It would be a simple process of FFG getting the factory to dump a bucket worth of models in a box before they hit the paint line. These would ship with the rest of the order from the factory to FFG. FFG would then sell direct to customers. FFG would save on painting, printing of cards and dials and packaging (biggest cost).

Looking at the economics of a model. Retail is $14.95 take off 20% to get dealers cost of approximately $11.96 from the distributor. Take off another 15% for distributor cost from FFG and get about $10.16. Now, take off another $15% to get FFG cost from manufacturer and you get about $8.64 per model. Now, take off printing, stand, dials and packaging and I bet you're down to a painted ship cost of around $4. Honestly, painting probably costs less than .50 per ship so maybe an undec would cost $3.50 from the factory. I'd gladly pay FFG $8 a ship for an undec which they could ship to me in a ziploc bag in a small box packed with peanuts at an additional shipping and handling cost of probably $5? I think there would be a market for that.

As for stands, dials and cards, I'd expect most people wanting to custom paint already have a collection of miniatures anyway. I've got a set of 4 X-wings. If I custom painted 4 and wanted to play with then then I'd just use the stands, dials and cards for the four I have....or make custom cards to match my painted models.

And yes, the current models will take paint just fine. However, I'd much rather paint an $8 blank model than spend $14 on a painted model and get stuff I don't need, dials, cards etc.

Not disagreeing with your numbers at all. I believe I rationalized that a model costs ~$2.50-$3 itself, the rest is in surcharge and shipping. If you're saying they'll take orders themselves, that's going to require someone to process the orders, a website where orders can be placed, etc. This adds cost to the model. Furthermore, FFG now has to store them and have a warehouse location to do so (likely in the States for shipping costs & time from China). This is going to add onto that $8 price tag. And since you can already get them online for ~$12 (cheaper if you wait for a sale), a $10 price tag on a direct from FFG unpainted ship doesn't seem to make a lot of sense when you can pay ~$2 extra to get a FULL expansion pack.

And again, I come back to the point of that this has to be additional revenue, not substitutional. How many people are going to buy unpainted models, even at the $8 price tag you mentioned, that wouldn't buy a full expansion pack at $12 online?

FFG just replied and told me to keep an eye out for future announements. Probably a generic reply but the last time they told me that I got good news from that future announcement. We'll see.

It's good enough for WK and their space combat game!

I don't know how many, or which, ships I would be looking at. But I can say that I will certainly be looking!

When I want to save a few bucks because I just want the model to paint or otherwise mess with, I go to Ebay and see what's available. People will buy the package, keep the upgrade cards and resell the model and maybe the paper goods related to it, like specific titles or pilots. It's worked out well so far, as I got the Shadowcaster, no upgrades for $15, an Imperial Raider for $45 sans the upgrade cards (but stat cards etc)

Can't say it makes much sense to me to pay $90 dollars for a few cards and a Tie Advanced, but I'm not a hardcore gamer, I just like painting

It occurred to me, about half an hour after I posted, that I already know the first few ships I need!

I need an HWK and a Firespray to go with the cards from Most Wanted and a Z-95 to go with the Hound's Tooth! A few Interceptors will be nice. Maybe a couple Defenders. And maybe enough X-Wings to give every named pilot from the Battle of Yavin their own ride (but that's a bit of a pipe dream).

On 6/2/2017 at 8:12 AM, drail14me said:

Wondering if anyone has ever approached FFG about selling undecorated models for custom painting? Maybe sell packages of 5 unpainted ships, no cards, dials or stands or anything, just the unpainted ships.

I do a lot of work with model railroads. Undecorated models are a big part of the hobby. Many locomotives and rail cars are available without paint for those of us who like to paint our own. Figured there's be a market for these in X-Wing as well.

Something to consider is that some of the colored parts are molded in color and not painted. It's not a big deal to clean the black wash out of the recesses with IPA or Simple Green or Purple Power.