1 hour ago, Quigman said:

I like my custom version of Diala so much better. Cost of 6, 10 health, everything else the same.

So force user list will be Davith (6), Diala (7), Luke (12), Ahsoka (8), Obi-Wan (7) and you can use Heroic Effort (0).

HotE is expected to have some serious force user command cards...it'll just depend as to whether or not the Imperials will have access to the same ones.

Knowledge and Defense! Hopefully with a meditation the round before to be able to do the full move, attack, extra defense!

It seems like a tons of resources in a desesperate attack that only would damage 3-5 on vader.

Rebels are actually one step behind the other factios (perhaps two against scum) at least in my personal experience.

Here's what I would run to specifically defeat a Driven by Hatred Vader list:

Quote

CNE Operation Send Dad To Nursing Home | 40 points

Deployment Cards
---------------------------

▪ Luke Skywalker (Jedi)
Elite Alliance Ranger
▪ Gideon Argus
▪ R2-D2
▪ C-3PO
▪ Hera Syndulla
▪ C1-10P
▪ Balance of the Force

Command Cards
------------------------

Deadeye
New Orders
Take Initiative
Son of Skywalker
Jump Jets
Devotion
Negation
Hit and Run
Heart of Freedom
Primary Target
Tools for the Job
Positioning Advantage
Heightened Reflexes
Call the Vanguard
Advance Warning

Here's how I would play this list (given your opponent is going to run Vader straight at your jugular):

* JK Luke is wasted going toe-to-toe with Vader all game long -- Vader's gonna win that battle outright. So I would be running Luke & Gideon (& possibly Chopper) together behind Vader attacking the rest of your opponent's army as safely as you can. (If your opponent is running Vader and BT-1, Luke should engage BT-1 ASAP in the 2nd round. You don't want BT hanging around to pick off wounded units late game.)

* The eRangers need to push forward a bit to look like they're supporting Luke. Their job is to keep attacking Vader without getting anywhere near Vader. By the middle of round 2, I would know whether or not Vader is going to chase Luke or chase my Rangers. If he chases Luke, my Rangers keep advancing and focus-firing on Vader; if he chases my Rangers, the Rangers gun and run away. Keeping the eRangers dancing outside of Vader's Force Choke range -- especially at the end of the round when Vader gets his free movement points -- is going to be the key towards keeping them alive. Making sure I utilize Elite Sniper for each Ranger shot is also very important. Each shot has to maximize its effectiveness!

* New Orders: If I get it, I get myself set up to use it ASAP. I'd default to using it on the eRangers, especially if Vader has left himself in range. Using it on Luke would be my secondary goal.

* At the start of round 2, I should have 2 eRangers Focused from Threepio & Gideon. I'll have Hera and Threepio supporting my Rangers while Gideon has moved on up in order to support Luke. If I haven't gotten New Orders by this point, I'd use Threepio to focus Hera -- her double-SURGE for Pierce 2 will work pretty good against Vader's Foresight and make my opponent wonder if she needs to kill Hera first. Otherwise I keep Focusing eRangers every turn.

* R2D2 and Chopper: Provided I don't run Luke too far up on the first round, I will roll both of them to a terminal for Scomp Link and System Shock. (I'll make sure one of them is near Luke in case I draw Devotion.) In the second round, I'd send Chopper with Luke and Ram Vader on turn 3 -- which you can use to push Vader further away from Luke or the Hunters. A Focused Chopper would likely get some damage through and would be HILARIOUS.

* Depending on the map, my eSmuggler is either going to be making me some objective points, or he's going to chip away at low-cost support figures (likely ImpOfficers).

* Luke is gonna die. But if he's still alive after Round 3, NOW is the time I throw him at Vader and get as many Pierce 3 attacks in on him before Vader retaliates. This is where positioning is key: if Vader is already within 4 spaces of Luke, I'll be able to ambush Vader with 2 attacks!

---

Obviously a lot of the strategy above depends on Vader getting rammed down my throat. I'll have to be able to make adjustments if my opponent slow-plays Vader. But that playstyle is to my benefit, since I'll be able to get all my eRangers & Hera and/or JK Luke Focused.

15 hours ago, RogueLieutenant said:

She has Pierece 3 AND can remove one of his two dice. Which essentially means Zillo technique would make up almost all of his defense against her attacks assuming she can get a surge off.

And then he'll destroy her next round.

But thematically, that would be so perfect! She focuses up (C3PO whispers something in her ear or something), then she delivers a mighty blow. Vader then collects his strength and kills her, just as Palpatine killed the Jedi that came to arrest him.

6 hours ago, burek277 said:

But thematically, that would be so perfect! She focuses up (C3PO whispers something in her ear or something), then she delivers a mighty blow. Vader then collects his strength and kills her, just as Palpatine killed the Jedi that came to arrest him.

And if he attacks her as opposed to Luke, all the better for Luke to waltz in and slap his Dad!

What about Elite Rebel Troopers?

Use 2 of them, focus them up the first round. Then you have 6 models with pierce 2 rolling 3 dice attacks. If you can get Covering fire then they can also surge for +2 dmg when he gets stunnes.

Playtested my scum list (IG, Jabba, eWeequay, Vinto, Onar, Hired Guns) against a new Imp list (Vader, Palpatine, rRoyal, rJet, 2 rOfficer, Zillo, Motivation, Unshakeable) yesterday on the Massassi Ruins map.

I spent the first activations focusing Onar and positioninf the Hired Guns. The Guards moved up, and the Officers moved Vader a bit. I moved in with Vinto to double tap a Guard and use his card for another shot, putting 3 damage on Vader. Vader killed Vinto and choked a Hired Gun that was positioned to run away with a 10 point crate. I moved in with IG for two RRG attacks, Vader rolled poorly on defence and took about 9 damage.

He put some hurt on my guys, I used Onar and Blaze to put Vader on 1 health. At the start of next turn, I body slammed Vader for the last point of damage. The game was still very close on points at the end, as all of my focus on Vader meant that the Imps carried away two boxes, so the end score was something like 40-37, even though I had most things left and my opponent was down to the two Officers.

All in all, it felt very cool and powerful on both sides. I got lucky with my Command cards, and Vader probably should have stayed a bit further back, but it felt like I could take him down with a group effort.

2 hours ago, burek277 said:

Playtested my scum list (IG, Jabba, eWeequay, Vinto, Onar, Hired Guns) against a new Imp list (Vader, Palpatine, rRoyal, rJet, 2 rOfficer, Zillo, Motivation, Unshakeable) yesterday on the Massassi Ruins map.

I spent the first activations focusing Onar and positioninf the Hired Guns. The Guards moved up, and the Officers moved Vader a bit. I moved in with Vinto to double tap a Guard and use his card for another shot, putting 3 damage on Vader. Vader killed Vinto and choked a Hired Gun that was positioned to run away with a 10 point crate. I moved in with IG for two RRG attacks, Vader rolled poorly on defence and took about 9 damage.

He put some hurt on my guys, I used Onar and Blaze to put Vader on 1 health. At the start of next turn, I body slammed Vader for the last point of damage. The game was still very close on points at the end, as all of my focus on Vader meant that the Imps carried away two boxes, so the end score was something like 40-37, even though I had most things left and my opponent was down to the two Officers.

All in all, it felt very cool and powerful on both sides. I got lucky with my Command cards, and Vader probably should have stayed a bit further back, but it felt like I could take him down with a group effort.

Obviously with a good scum hunter list he will be die. But try this with rebels and you will see that i say.

9 hours ago, landoro said:

What about Elite Rebel Troopers?

Use 2 of them, focus them up the first round. Then you have 6 models with pierce 2 rolling 3 dice attacks. If you can get Covering fire then they can also surge for +2 dmg when he gets stunnes.

No one likes to count on a command card though. I think most of these guys are ultra competitive in their area so, having eRT in a list is not always optimal. Due to the amount of damage being thrown around, usually most figures want to have 7+health if they can get it just to survive an attack.

15 hours ago, landoro said:

What about Elite Rebel Troopers?

Use 2 of them, focus them up the first round. Then you have 6 models with pierce 2 rolling 3 dice attacks. If you can get Covering fire then they can also surge for +2 dmg when he gets stunnes.

I suppose you're hoping the ending of Rogue One only showed Regular Rebel Troopers?

In my last game using hatred vader, he kill the rancorn in one round, then he kill shayla varad and 3 weeqays while carryng an objetive token... so a 13 points figure gains around 30 points. Obviously i won the match 40-24 .

The point is i'm starting to think they really made a little op the new vader. What happen if the next meta we only see vaders? I don't like this but there is no fix unless all the new stuff and fixes makes the meta more playable for more figures. Pray.

Even if Vader turns out to be very strong (and I would guess you got a bit lucky there, so he's probably not quite as strong as it seems), investing a third of your points into a single unit always carries a risk with it. When we understand its strengths and weaknesses more, it will be easier to judge how to focus when going against Vader. Maybe it's best to just pile everything on him and take him down in 1 or 2 turns (definitely possible), maybe just ignore him and go for the other troops. This is even more prevalent in maps that force players to divide their troops in 2 or even 3 areas.

He is also very vulnerable to a stun, especially after his activation, as it makes him lose his entire end of round combo.

34 minutes ago, burek277 said:

He is also very vulnerable to a stun, especially after his activation, as it makes him lose his entire end of round combo.

I expect Vader to be Unshakable and activate last each turn.

Sure, but with 13 points sunk into him (14 with Unshakable), it should be quite possible to have more activations and activate after him.

2 hours ago, burek277 said:

Sure, but with 13 points sunk into him (14 with Unshakable), it should be quite possible to have more activations and activate after him.

You can use unshakable at start of any of your activations so is not that hard clean stun until end of the round.

Of course there will be combos to bring him down but i think actually is more powerfull than jedi luke. Is incredible how the rerolls increase his average attack, i didn't see that in paper.

Just imagine a list with palpatine and some officers in wich he can "activate" few times (his own, officers move, palpy attack order and in the end round) this is potentially 3 miniature kill per round or a big one. I can't wait to see what combos people who knows skirmish better than me will be bring to the meta, and what other people do to counter.

A thing i notice is that his command card is losing power (well never was too powerfull, but brutality helps to trigger actions)

Yeah, the idea is to have more activations, so you can stun him after he has activated his last group. But it's not very reliable, I agree.

Yeah, he doesn't benefit all that much from CCs it seems. It will be interesting to see how he fares.

I wouldn't expect him to activate last every round. He'll be front line, so if turn two you wait to activate him, there's a chance he doesn't activate at all. Those Hunter cards can pile on damage in a hurry. You'll also need to have more units with pierce (I hate you zillo), so you can actually get through that massive double-black-with-rerolls defense wall. I wonder if he will make elite Sabs more viable, with both their super pierce ability and stun.

-ryanjamal

2 hours ago, ryanjamal said:

I wonder if he will make elite Sabs more viable, with both their super pierce ability and stun.

I expect that. One unit with Targeting Computers is still a viable option (Tier 2). And will become a welcome addition against Vader ...

You'll need multiple pierce and multiple stun options.

Vader will account for 15pts at least (vader, unshakeable, zillo) but he will be very strong.

I don't have a problem with it though. Its 1 figure with 2 attacks (his attack and then the end of round stuff) he should be able to be stunned after his activation (you should have more deployments than a Vader led imperial player) which would (I think) cause him to lose his end of round attack/choke (maybe not). I think Sabs will be useful. There are multiple "remove a die" cards in a Hunter-led list, and the Rebels still have access to the most Pierce 3 Force Users. I'd be disappointed if Vader didn't take out half an army and I'd be disappointed if he died to 2-3 attacks. He should have some staying power and control the board.

This very well may cause the return of the Sabs and Royal Guards...and I thought they were going to continue to collect dust...interesting!

7 hours ago, burek277 said:

Sure, but with 13 points sunk into him (14 with Unshakable), it should be quite possible to have more activations and activate after him.

It's hard to stun a character rolling 2 black dice.

16 minutes ago, caseycheesecake said:

It's hard to stun a character rolling 2 black dice.

Unless your figure has both options, pierce and stun. eSabs making a come back! :-)

-ryanjamal

You have to deal damage first, but a focused eSab with Targeting Computer is one of the best options to do that and still deal stun.

1 hour ago, buckero0 said:

I don't have a problem with it though. Its 1 figure with 2 attacks (his attack and then the end of round stuff) he should be able to be stunned after his activation (you should have more deployments than a Vader led imperial player) which would (I think) cause him to lose his end of round attack/choke (maybe not).

He would still be able to force choke while stunned, just not move or attack. Given that choke is not as good as the attack, stunning him is still very beneficial.

2 black dice with a re-roll, zillo, and a Royal Guard. That's a minimum of 2 or 3 blocks with 1 or 2 evades (assuming disposal of a cc) and an exhaust for pierce 2 removal or maybe 4 blocks and pierce 2 removal.

He's a beast, as he should be, and he can't be ignored anymore either!

Concentrating on him now is going to cost you considering the 18 other points available (assuming zillo and Royal Guard already chosen).

Royal Guards are no joke and if Vader dies, now they're both focused!?

DBH Vader (13), Emperor (8), Royal Guard (8), Elite Jet Trooper (7), Regular Officer (2), Zillo Technique (1), Unshakable (1) is a solid option. I can also see Shyla being used to pull people into Vader.

Who knows what Riot Troopers will bring to the table, maybe they'll provide the block like the RGs and be a cheaper/weaker option.

He's tough, but not invincible.

Place a Junk Droid beneath 4 Royal Guards. 0-0-0 improper procedures the Droid to death => 4 focused Royal Guards => perfect counter to your opponents Vader.

+1 Block for your Vader