Actually I thought it was curious Visovics were REBEL while the tracker was Sheriff, the Major was... well, Major and the watcher was a nosi neighbour. Then I remembered that you claim the first without any clue about if the goodies were going to be Rebels or just farmers.
Not a big deal but just another thing.
I'm a town - aligned moisture farmer whose win condition is to eliminate all threats to the village. I joked with Biggs about watching out die a serial killer, because I noticed the of wording of the win con.
Also, that fully clears NIP. If he was evil, he could have voted Visovics and won just now.
Yes. A am pretty sure about Visovics right now.
@Onidsen and @GhostofNobodyInParticular cannot be hutt cause the requirements that would explain what happened at night are almost impossible and if they were possible the hutt was just and idiot. I watched Ghost and Visovics protected me so one of us had to be redirected. Why, then, not kill me an incriminate Visovics.
That let us me or @Visovics . One must lie.
I was claiming watcher. Why I didn't kill Visovics. That would be a guaranteed kill as he was not going to protect himself and, even if he did, he died. That would reinforce me as a victim. Then I could say I see someone else. Onidsen was hammer, Caribbean didn't vote, both worked as the fool I would need to lynch. I wouldn't need send a message to Ghost but I could do.
Instead of that are to in telling me I killed Ghost and send to barely trustworthy messages telling I betrayed my mate in order to produce some kind of double/triple/quadruple reading of the message as a cheap psychological trick? And in order to make sure that town has at least a 50% chance of winning I said I watched Vic.
Why I didn't claim I had the same message if I am the source? Why I didn't talk about Onidsen in the message and reinforce it with a false claim of seeing him visiting Caribbean??
But Visovics was not able to kill me cause then he must be lynched as a false bodyguard. And was not able to kill himself of course. He must kill anyone else. That is the reason when after being sure that Tirion was the blocker I must watch Ghost, Onidsen or Caribbean. I don't need to watch myself cause the only one who could kill me was him but then he would be done. I could watch him but if the killer was other to kill Visovics would be a risky move. As we noticed the hutt would need to be another blocker or redirector. The first was lynched, we didnt know about the second. And that in addition to being able to send messages cause we know the messenger is hutt. If not, why he didn't claim to be. I didn't send messages, and anyone else say he does. That is the reason I choice Ghost as the less hutt likely player. He was the first vote on Tirion before I claimed my role.
Visovics must kill some of the other three.
Visovics just need to send 1 message.
I saw Visovics visiting Ghost who actually got a message.
Visovics had the perfect alibi as a bodyguard who was blocked and claimed first and cab only proof himself dying. (But if I proof myself and I am a traitor hutt).
Actually:
Visovics was on the non-lynching team. He almost died at Do but he claimed a role that Onidsen told us he played few times. Why bodyguard? Cause cop or doc were risky of we had one. I am not sure if they were sure about Truthiness bring something but they thought JJ was. They blocked him, sent me a message and kill Truthiness. They want JJ killed on D2 but Norell was so suspicious... of they push hard against JJ they were done. I took my time to tell the voice story and they couldn't wait more a put votes 4 and 5 on Norell. If I am not wrong Visovics put the vote 4 just before Tirion. Then I came with the voice and eureka! "Just on time!!" Tirion step back. I think Visovics did too as far as I remember (I could be wrong). But with Norell lynching himself saying he was not the voice (he could survive until D3 but he was an honest townie and lie would be wrong) JJ was alive another day and the blocker was revealed. JJ claimed moisture farmer with the story of being blocked ("if he didn't want do anything at night, he did even less").
He was not needed to be blocked so they could pretend Visovics was blocked backing up the no quite believed story and incriminate JJ with a other message to Caribbean and Madaghmire dead! Not a big effort after all but some still not convicted about JJ like me. Caribbean and Ghost came with the townie dead source of voice/vote to trust it but I didn't jump so easily and Onidsen was plauing D&D and then... PT claimed cop pointing to Tirion: Panic!! JJ died in the shortest day of a three sun planet before I could even agree with Caribbean and Ghost. All I had time to do was like Tirion's answer to PT cause I knew he was lying. JJ died as PT's message never happened. Then PT died cause hutt believed his claim. That was an epic fail and too much luck for the townies.
Ghost and Caribbean suspected about Tirion and he build up a new voice story against me who actually pointed against the voice being trustworthy (it seems it worked cause Caribbean didn't tell us anything about his voice the night before but I won't give me too much credit for that). I claimed watcher and point to the fail the hutt did killing PT. Tirion couldn't escape and his partner had to vote him.
Then what we have now: a two message story with two players lying? Cause it is but he or me. If I lie and sent the message why I negated that both receive the message when I sent to two giving him the chance of trust each other about the message. One message would be more clever if I was going to negate that the message was real. So if I lie about he messages it is obvious that one of them lie too about receiving it and we cannot have two hutts. And if one of them didn't receive a message then I didn't send the messages and then one of them is the hutt and as long as Ghost cannot be the hutt (unless he has three roles or more) Visovics must be the hutt.
Seriously it is quite clear for me right now. I would like to hear how I would be the hutt and did what it is supposed I did: like moving to JJ when he was at hammer-1 and moving back to Norell when JJ was close to death or lynching the blocker when I could sacrifice myself instead or sending two messages and negate that were believable instead of just one that I could dispute more easily.
28 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:If I am not wrong Visovics put the vote 4 just before Tirion. Then I came with the voice and eureka! "Just on time!!" Tirion step back. I think Visovics did too as far as I remember (I could be wrong)
First of all, piece of advice, don't use memory, it can change, looking back in the chat is better and more reliable.
Now yes I backed off after your comment and Tirion backing off. This is because you reminded me he could do a claim, and I know I was only saved D1 due to mine. I said that if he didn't give a good enough explanation for his apparent role fishing, my vote would go back. By the end of the day, me and JJ had votes on him, then everyone came because we had few hours left, and you brought the hammer down, after Tirion brought him to 5.
On that same day, you became a suspect for saying that you thought they could be vanillas, despite you being one of the people that were looking to pressure them out, which seems wildly as trying to paint yourself innocent, which would be easy if you knew they weren't hutts.
Also, when you were voted on, your reaction was not of a reasonable defense, but more of a provocative language, which could well make a town player do a mistake so you can incriminate me.
Now if I was hutt, why would I not kill you? If I am lying and there is no protective role, I can get a free kill on the watcher, send some messages to Ghost, claim and turn on Onidsen because he was one of CNinja's main suspects along Tirion.
Now if you are lying, you could know I would protect you, the only important role in the game, so you knew you could get a free kill, and incriminate anyone by saying you saw them visit me or even visit someone else random, because knowingly there is a messenger, and 3 players other than you. After a player claims something like a message, you have 50% chance of getting who visited them right, in case there was an action. And if you had the possibility of sending several messages, which are considered lies, you can puzzle the players with weird psychological shenanigans by sending 1 each night, and when you most need you send 2 and claim one of the players is lying.
I think it's clear for me who the one lying is, the one who is trying to prove it wasn't him by saying one of the 1000s of possibilities of strategy you could have behind a kill, and by making it look like they are something obvious that happens to incriminate a direct opposition, and I think no one is stupid enough to do that.
I obviously won't vote for myself, so here we go
##vote ovinomanc3r
44 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:Why, then, not kill me an incriminate Visovics.
because I would die... you don't seem to consider my role when you make the example where someone else is hutt...
18 minutes ago, Visovics said:Now if I was hutt, why would I not kill you? If I am lying and there is no protective role, I can get a free kill on the watcher, send some messages to Ghost, claim and turn on Onidsen because he was one of CNinja's main suspects along Tirion.
Cause you told you were bodyguard and the blocker was dead and me would show as watcher and it would be obvious that you weren't bodyguard as you said cause you didn't protect the watcher!!!
Just now, ovinomanc3r said:as you said cause you didn't protect the watcher!!!
Good point
1 hour ago, Visovics said:First of all, piece of advice, don't use memory, it can change, looking back in the chat is better and more reliable.
Now yes I backed off after your comment and Tirion backing off. This is because you reminded me he could do a claim, and I know I was only saved D1 due to mine. I said that if he didn't give a good enough explanation for his apparent role fishing, my vote would go back. By the end of the day, me and JJ had votes on him, then everyone came because we had few hours left, and you brought the hammer down, after Tirion brought him to 5.
On that same day, you became a suspect for saying that you thought they could be vanillas, despite you being one of the people that were looking to pressure them out, which seems wildly as trying to paint yourself innocent, which would be easy if you knew they weren't hutts.
Also, when you were voted on, your reaction was not of a reasonable defense, but more of a provocative language, which could well make a town player do a mistake so you can incriminate HIM.
Now if I was hutt, why would I not kill you? If I am lying and there is no protective role, I can get a free kill on the watcher, send some messages to Ghost, claim and turn on Onidsen because he was one of CNinja's main suspects along Tirion.
Now if you are lying, you could know I would protect you, the only important role in the game, so you knew you could get a free kill, and incriminate anyone by saying you saw them visit me or even visit someone else random, because knowingly there is a messenger, and 3 players other than you. After a player claims something like a message, you have 50% chance of getting who visited them right, in case there was an action. And if you had the possibility of sending several messages, which are considered lies, you can puzzle the players with weird psychological shenanigans by sending 1 each night, and when you most need you send 2 and claim one of the players is lying.
I think it's clear for me who the one lying is, the one who is trying to prove it wasn't him by saying one of the 1000s of possibilities of strategy you could have behind a kill, and by making it look like they are something obvious that happens to incriminate a direct opposition, and I think no one is stupid enough to do that.
I obviously won't vote for myself, so here we go
##vote ovinomanc3r
ok, that no edit rule is really bothering when you re-read after some time, correction in bold
2 hours ago, Visovics said:because I would die... you don't seem to consider my role when you make the example where someone else is hutt...
The quote came from the piece where I say I am sure Caribbean and Onidsen cannot be the hutt
If one of the is, the you and me are saying the truth and one of us was redirected. So if there is a redirect role the easiest would be to redirect you to someone else and kill me incriminating you.
It doesn't happen = no one of them is hutt.
I'm very hesitant right now, because you truly seem to be villager, but this would mean either slippy NiPpy or Onidsen would be hutt, which they also definitely don't seem to be. Unless we have been taking the wrong points in consideration... Onidsen was repeatedly on suspect lists including CNinja's most recent, which included Tirion... Ghost, did caribbean ever talk about his suspicion on Oni?
I feel like Ovi is telling the truth, but also would be weird because I know I protected him, and 2 messages actually come, and I am seen going to ghost and this is so confusing!!
##unvote ovinomanc3r
we have time (not really, but still, 24 hours is relatively long)
This is wildly silent for a decisive night
I meant day...
On 6/5/2017 at 8:40 PM, Visovics said:We can't really judge things in day 1, because you literally CAN'T TRUST ANYONE. EVERYONE who posted talked about how to get the Hutts out, but who is really wanting and who is following the crowd to hide their identity? I think the wisest decision is to see how the night turns out and from there we can deduce and analyze what we have from a base of happenings. Right now, voting blindly has:
1. More chances of hitting a villager
2.A chance of hitting a vital role
A point in Visovics' favor. (Vis +1 = 1)
On 6/5/2017 at 9:13 PM, Visovics said:somewhat interesting,
Truthiness: his actions were straight towards [JJ], seeing how [JJ] play up to now, his continual "threat" does seem a bit anormal and very focused
Norell: Decided to skip day 1, thus opening a window for the "free kill"
Me: Done bothbut also haven't stuck to a decision and have not directly expressed I agree with someone, despite making long texts ( very long sometimes and mostly nonsense)
I like your way of judging, something to always take in consideration in the future
'twas after this that messages started appearing that incriminated JJ. Also, Vis frequently supported both roles without strongly advocating either one. (Vis -1 = 0)
On 6/5/2017 at 10:38 PM, Visovics said:What is our vanilla to special ratio? I'm glad to sacrifice a vanilla first night, I don't want to have a similar situation from what I saw in Lothal. I now see the point that having a lynch can show everyone's behaviour by looking at patterns of voting, so may be worth to have 2 pieces of data by day 3 to talk over
A point against Visovics (Vis -1 = -1)
On 6/5/2017 at 10:48 PM, Visovics said:If you notice, he seems to be specially scared of JJ. Can't blame him, but he panicked to much there on the "consider yourself noticed"
Redirecting attention (Vis -1 = -2)
On 6/5/2017 at 11:00 PM, JJs Juggernaut said:So I'm just going to point out that it would be much more helpful to know what the town to mafia ratio is, something that you seemed to care less about then the ratio of special townsfolk to regular townsfolk. This is highly suspicious, and comes off as trying to find out information about town specials....something a mafia member would try to do. Especially "glad to sacrifice a vanilla" (?!?!?) That's not the goal, the goal is to find the mafia by deduction, which can happen before the first lynching, sometimes you end up lynching a townie on accident, but hopefully your discussions cause the mafia to slip up. Currently your posts are coming off suspicious enough for me to cast a vote:
##Vote Visovics
(Vis -1 = -3)
On 6/5/2017 at 11:11 PM, Tirion said:I'm almost ready to jump on the vis wagon. As it looks like a pretty safe bet. Cause at the least he doesn't seem like a power role.
I won't lie though this truth situation is eating at me....
(Vis +1 = -2) - 'safe bet' could mean that it wouldn't be suspicious voting for him though. . .
On 6/6/2017 at 0:54 AM, ovinomanc3r said:Something that came to my mind:
Let's say at least one of the bad guys is clever enough to build a strategy to kill us and cover themselves. Is this an incredible speculation? I think is not.
We usually find some kind of dual approach for every thing:
- if you don't talk you are mafia.
- if you talk you are mafia pretending to be townie.
- if you don't want to lynch someone at day 1 you are mafia.
- if you want to lynch someone you are mafia pretending to be townie.Etc.
So, what would be the perfect tactic (IMO)?: to put a finger on every cake.
So we could argue, with some basis, that at least one hutt would defend the no-lynching claim.
Then we would have a 1/3, better than the ?/11 right?
This is essentially what you're currently accused of. (Ovi -1 = -1)
On 6/6/2017 at 6:25 PM, Tirion said:My morning thoughts:
It's nothing I'm convinced of but there is still that truthiness situation that is in the back of my head.
Vis does look suspicious as hell.
Might not mean anything but JJ sure has gotten pretty quite.
(Vis +1 = -1). Though Tirion did also try to target two townies. . .
On 6/6/2017 at 7:13 PM, Tirion said:I'm all for the vis vote if that is the direction we are wanting to go. I'm in the camp better to take a shot than give the scum a free kill. Not wanting to put vote 5 up for reasons previously discussed.
(Vis +1 = 0), but he's still advocating that he doesn't want to kill Vis
On 6/6/2017 at 7:57 PM, Visovics said:Oh, then yes, I am making a claim, I am a Rebel infiltrate (Bodyguard)
On 6/6/2017 at 8:01 PM, Visovics said:Not smart to shout "I AM REBEL" unless the farmers are pointing balsters at ya to lynch
Ahem. You recently stated that you didn't know you were rebel. (Vis -1 = -1)
On 6/6/2017 at 10:39 PM, Visovics said:I am largely positive that if the medic protects me I don't die if protecting someone, altough this may only come useful if I am a target, otherwise it would be the same effect as a normal medic.
Kinda poor logic, and a useful explanation for not dying. Also, as roles dwindled, it was clear we had no medic. (Vis -1 = -2)
On 6/7/2017 at 3:11 AM, JJs Juggernaut said:So, it appears we won't have any consensus for a hammer today unless something changes in the next 4 hours, considering we aren't even close. I'll make a few notes here then:
Ovinomanc3r: Fairly active. Has mostly remained neutral in any discussion, pointing out information (some already known) about both sides of the arguments. Says he trusts PT and Onidsen due to their support of a day 1 hammer.
Visovics: Very Active. Also jumped on me for kickstarting the discussion. Potential role fishing (makes sense if he is bodyguard role as claimed). Had 4 votes until claim, voters backed off for now. Voted for Truthiness based on his suspicion of me; possibly a vote to try and push attention off of himself, which if he is Hutt, would most likely mean Truthiness is not (pending Hutt mindgames), but Visovics did seem to accept his word would mean less while targeted, and didn't push back as hard as I would expect a Hutt member to do.
Onidsen: Barely active. Being an experienced player, voiced approval at a day 1 hammer, at least with the intent of kickstarting discussion. Voted for Visovics "on principle", unvoted after the claim. Also has answered a few game related questions, showing he is at least paying attention (maybe more closely than we realize). His vote "on principle" was also for the person with the most votes at that time, but he didn't voice any opinions as to why he voted (something that is important to do, and something I would expect of an experienced player). This could be a cover for a Hutt member to try and push an innocent hammer?
Tirion: Fairly active. Joined the conversation a page or so in (not unusual, but delays can mean they are off coordinating with Mafia members; or maybe it means they just had IRL stuff to do!). Expressed concern after last game about the day 1 hammer, but expressed some agreement with my early assessments against Visovics; eventually decided to join #TeamHammerDay1 ( though he never actually voted, stating not wanting to put Visovics at h-1) . Expressed some concern at Truthiness's actions towards me.
Bold shows points I think important. Onidsen has been very quiet in his posts, in the sense that he hasn't made himself obvious. No explanations for his votes, no nothing. . . (Vis -1 = -3)
Tirion consistently claimed to support voting Vis, but never did, eventually voting Norell. (Vis -1 = -4)
Ovinomanc3r never took a stand, always played devil's advocate, and defending the underdog on all occasions. . . especially when he was to be held personally responsible for the decisions made based on his arguments. (Ovi -1 = -2)
On 6/7/2017 at 11:18 PM, ovinomanc3r said:@Visovics , who did you protected at night?
Actually I was going to point out that, if Visovics is townie. And he had up to 4 votes. And he didn't die while it would be really easy for hutts to lynch him. What makes me thing hutt already spent some vote there.
I think the logic could be that either the hutts already voted, which would leave Ovinomanc3r of that group still alive, or Visovics was a hutt and so didn't vote himself. (Vis -1 = -5) (Ov1 -1 = -3)
On 6/8/2017 at 1:06 AM, ovinomanc3r said:Something I am wondering about.
Why they didn't kill Visovics?
I mean, he is not a great role but he will be handy when it goes on.
Indeed, he shielded himself (as far as he could) claiming his role so he is not a main suspect and hutts need main suspects right? In order to cover themselves.
Even with Truthiness smelling like a townie role he was a blind shot. So at the end they changed an almost sure shot against a "clean" citizen for a blind one what actually remove one of our main suspects.
@Onidsen , as a veteran player, do you find some sense to that mafia procedure? Is it "normal"?
(Vis -1 = -6)
On 6/8/2017 at 7:31 PM, Tirion said:
A hutt unvoted a townie on ovi's word. . . (Ovi -1 = -4)
On 6/9/2017 at 10:22 AM, ovinomanc3r said:The main problem is that I cannot be sure about the nature of my night incident. I am really confused.
How you would be is you are said vanilla and then get a pm during the night?
I am reticent to explain myself openly cause there is a chance of uncovering a powerful townie role. Where I ended was that Norell and JJs are involved in a way that one of them is hutt (or a fool). With the last one as the winner in my mind.
However if the town need a deeper explanation I could give that and wash my hands. We have a bodyguard after all and he would have a chance of proofing himself.
And now you claim watcher? (Ovi -1 = -5)
On 6/9/2017 at 5:10 PM, ovinomanc3r said:But if JJ is townie then or I am lying (so no power role involved) or I was cheated.
If the first, there I no difference between killing me after Norell or before.
If the second I am townie and I shouldn't be killed.
While it makes sense, it's also a desparate arguement to defend you dying second, which given the circumstances is odd, since they clearly stated that they vote you first 'cause you led them to their vote. (Ovi -1 = -6)
On 6/9/2017 at 5:15 PM, Tirion said:Maybe I'm just missing it cause it's early here. But you're scum how is there not a difference in killing you first.... Again maybe I'm missing the actual point of your post.
A hutt is advocating killing Ovinomanc3r (Ovi +1 = -5)
On 6/9/2017 at 5:24 PM, CaribbeanNinja said:Yeah no joke...
@ovinomanc3r are you so sure that us lynching JJ will turn up with him being town? Because that sure is what it seems like to me...
Ovi backs down as soon as he knows he'll be held responsible (Ovi -1 = -6)
On 6/9/2017 at 5:38 PM, PT106 said:Let me remind all of you the conclusions that @ovinomanc3r made out of his night encounter. From my point of view, his story doesn't support 99% certainty (he doesn't even know who sent him the message). I think we're presented with a Hobson choice here: to kill JJ now and kill Norell the next day, or to kill Norell now and to kill JJ the next day. Notice that ovinomanc3r described his allegation in a way that allows him a plausible deniability in the case we kill innocent person. Also, assuming that the message was the result of someone else exercising his power, I find it curious that ovinomanc3r was preparing for his current declaration from day 1 with all his blue milk escapades. Therefore I think a simpler explanation is in order: either @ovinomanc3r is lying and trying to set us all up, or he is Force-sensitive and therefore is Rebel-aligned. In both cases I will
#vote ovinomanc3r
(Ovi -1 = -7)
On 6/9/2017 at 6:07 PM, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:::Sigh::
First you say you're suspicious of one, and we vote, then you learn that if you're wrong we vote you and completely turn around your opinion. . . . Then PT votes you (justifiably I might add). . how 'bout we kill off JJ for being swing-y, Ovi for being indecisive, Norell 'cause he's Public Enemy #1 on most lists, and see how that goes? One at a time of course, subject to change. . . .
Same point.
On 6/9/2017 at 6:21 PM, Visovics said:Yeah, I vouch for supporting the rebel alliance, we are not the villains in this forgotten village!
Again, you remembered that you are rebel, meaning you lied more recently (Vis -1 = -8)
On 6/9/2017 at 6:38 PM, ovinomanc3r said:I am just waiting a clarification about my voice.
If he doesn't appear then I will probably will be lynched but at least you will learn something: Whoever heard the voice this night will know it is a liar and is looking just for dissension.
All you must remember that all I did becomes my position weaker, not stronger and it was obvious that saying something hard to believe and impossible to proof wasn't going to help me. But I did. I could let Norell die but I didn't cause I think there was something wrong. Why I didn't shut up my mouth? In order to save Norell? And my great plan was "ey guys I hear voices in my head".
I had that voice. And I would quote here if it wasn't a quote cause I have no idea about how quoting quotes.
The thing is that whoever talked in my head was not voting JJ (if Norell is saying the truth and he is not the voice) so my head voice doesn't seem trustworthy. That is the reason I unvoted JJs.
He argues convincingly, but that could just be because he had a grand strategy. Still. (Ovi +1 = -5)
On 6/10/2017 at 7:03 PM, Visovics said:Just finished catching up and this is a completely weird turnout of events! I was almost completely sure about PT lying, and I tried to protect you last night @ovinomanc3r , because you were too confident when you were accused, and I had the impression you still had powerful cards to play and I was right, the Hutts don't seem to have picked it up.
PT's death is quite incriminating of @Tirion , but it's a bit too obvious. Tirion has been playing a very careful game, he looks back in the chat before taking a decision, so he would have figured out that PT was trying to act powerful only when he needed, because he seemed very uncertain of a lot of his decisions and was mostly following around what others said, but if he had 2 nights before to check on people, he would have spoken out before.
Right now I'm wondering about mostly @Onidsen . He has been mostly quiet, spoke up when asked, but otherwise, he did participate in some of the votes without clear explanations, just following in the crowd.
On the other hand, there were some big suspicions on your head Ovi, that ended up deflected and finished in a villager lynched. There are many unexplained factors from the last day (Still nothing found on that unknown vote, but could be a double-voter role) Right now we need statements from everyone concerning themselves and the group and we need to round up as much evidence as we have to point to a suspect, and try to see a pattern somewhere. Who received messages? Connections between those? Who was blocked? Any possible connections? With only 4 needed to hammer, it's too dangerous to base ourselves on gut instincts and not so clear suspicions.
He supported Tirion and seemed to know how he opperates. (Vis -1 = -9). He also tried to shift the attention away from himself, something he considered suspicious in others.
On the other hand, he makes a good point about Ovinomanc3r. (Ovi - 1 = -6)
On 6/11/2017 at 9:45 PM, Visovics said:Yes, but one thing we have been following without question is your claim to be a watcher, which always happened to give nothing until the moment that a lynch on a villager wins the game for a hutt basically.
Also, Biggs' PM was a simple "You received a message: " followed by a "Ovinomanc3r betrayed his partner"
A good point. (Vis +1 = -8) (Ovi -1 = -7)
1 hour ago, Visovics said:I'm very hesitant right now, because you truly seem to be villager, but this would mean either slippy NiPpy or Onidsen would be hutt, which they also definitely don't seem to be. Unless we have been taking the wrong points in consideration... Onidsen was repeatedly on suspect lists including CNinja's most recent, which included Tirion ... Ghost, did caribbean ever talk about his suspicion on Oni?
I feel like Ovi is telling the truth, but also would be weird because I know I protected him, and 2 messages actually come, and I am seen going to ghost and this is so confusing!!
##unvote ovinomanc3r
we have time (not really, but still, 24 hours is relatively long)
Voting than unvoting Ovinomanc3r doesn't really help his position, and this comes off as more a confused villager than anything (Vis +1 = -7). On the other hand he also doesn't really provide much help to anyone else's case.
What I can sum up from above is that Ovinomanc3r claimed vanilla then shifted to watcher, Vis claimed rebel then forgot and reclaimed rebel, ovi is rather indecisive and seldom strongly supports a side, Vis also dallied and even shifted attention away from himself when he was accused (targeting popular votees and also calling them suspicious when they did the same thing), Tirion repeatedly supported voting Vis but never did, Vis hammered Tirion, who was desperately shifting blame to Ovi. As for the below: Tirion was watched, but wasn't visited. As he was hutt, wouldn't he have done something suspicious? Also Ovi seems to really trust Vis here. . .
On 6/10/2017 at 6:02 PM, ovinomanc3r said:Liar.
Norell's death completely cleaned me cause I could give him the sixth vote when it wouldn't pointed to me. Instead of that I put my mind story and all know what came after that. If I would vote him after you put him at 5 anyone could blame me for coring what everyone was voting.
Actually I almost support you against PT cause I watched you and you were not visited. PT106 lied but now I know why.
I even almost defend you today cause PT's death was quite incriminating as JJs was but that day then I thought:
PT claimed cop and he lied. But hutts didn't know that. If Tirion were townie, they would know he was lying, let him alive and lynch you today. But if Tirion were hutt, they would scare about the cop so he had to kill him before he could discover someone else. You didn't know he was lying.
In fact you are the only survivor that were after JJs lynching (day3), Norell lynching (day2) and Norell lynching trial (day1).
We have only 2 hutts, otherwise the game would end before lynching. I only voted Norell (after a really hard discussion). Are you telling that hutts were able to kill everybody without voting them?
I am -nosy neighbour- TOWN aligned WATCHER.
Tirion is the lynch we need. With some luck, we kill the blocker who blocked JJ (N1), Visovics (N2) and me (N3).
I watched Visovics (N1) after he claimed bodyguard, just in case. No one visited him.
I watched Tirion (N2) cause I thought someone would try incriminate JJs even more killing him. No one visited him.
I watched Visovics again (N3) cause I thought they would block our bodyguard again to be sure they killed the right one. I was blocked. That seemed anice awful lot of effort so I got drunk.
Tirion = Hutt.
I think we can win thanks to visovics but I need to learn some interactions between bodyguard and watcher. I don't vote yet cause I am waiting that info, before night mute us.
We can try to figure out who is the second hutt during this time.
I think Visovics said the truth about himself.
Also: CNinja hadn't much to say concerning Onidsen. Sorry.
Ovi is indecisive, lied about his role, and pointed out Tirion as a hutt, yet claimed that Tirion went unvisited. Always plays devil's advocate, claims the hutts likely had a strategy from day 1, yet always disregards arguments referring to grand plans.
Vis is indecisive, never produced anything from his role, supported Tirion, was never voted for by Tirion even when 1) Tirion expressed willingness to do so, and 2) when it could have brought him closer to hammer, voted right after Tirion against Norell, and isn't where he claimed to be last night according to Ovinomanc3r
Onidsen is subtle, quiet, voted perfectly so as to appear unsuspicious, yet didn't explain why. Never really offered too much of a helpful opinion in deciding whom to vote for (IIRC).
It's basically a shot in the dark at this point. . . STILL . Sigh. Vis unvoted Ovi, as I said. This is odd. It doesn't help him, he's advocating for the trustworthiness of his voters. So, why would he do it?
I have a feeling the audience is screaming at me the right choice in the observer's lounge. Sorry about the delays folks
.
So, @ovinomanc3r , what message did you get when you watched me?
We have roughly 18 hours left. I intend to be asleep for 9 of those, so I'll be back in the morning.
5 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:So, @ovinomanc3r , what message did you get when you watched me?
For some things I saw in your long post:
I obviously claim being vanilla cause we loose our tracker and I wanted to keep myself covered as long as I could. That was good cause if I would claimed when PT pointed to Tirion what I actually had not time to do I would die instead of PT.
On the other hand I could receive a PM saying I saw something suspicious when I watched Visovics cause I am watcher, not tracker. Nothing weird happened in Visovics's home.
Answering your question:
Quote: You watch GhostOfNobodyInParticular, and he is visited by Visovics.
Just now, ovinomanc3r said:For some things I saw in your long post:
I obviously claim being vanilla cause we loose our tracker and I wanted to keep myself covered as long as I could. That was good cause if I would claimed when PT pointed to Tirion what I actually had not time to do I would die instead of PT.
On the other hand I couldn't receive a PM saying I saw something suspicious when I watched Visovics cause I am watcher, not tracker. Nothing weird happened in Visovics's home.
Answering your question:
Quote: You watch GhostOfNobodyInParticular, and he is visited by Visovics.
Edited in bold. My mobile phone put whatever it wants
51 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:For some things I saw in your long post:
I obviously claim being vanilla cause we loose our tracker and I wanted to keep myself covered as long as I could. That was good cause if I would claimed when PT pointed to Tirion what I actually had not time to do I would die instead of PT.
On the other hand I could receive a PM saying I saw something suspicious when I watched Visovics cause I am watcher, not tracker. Nothing weird happened in Visovics's home.
Answering your question:
Quote: You watch GhostOfNobodyInParticular, and he is visited by Visovics.
OK, thanks. I ask 'cause 'Nosy Neighbor' and 'Watcher' are two different roles. The former allows you to know what I did, and the latter allows you to see who visited me. So if you are both, it's a bit odd, unless Biggs was just trying to give you a thematic role?
On 6/11/2017 at 11:30 PM, ovinomanc3r said:I tried to defend Norell when was the easiest kill. Then, when thing started to move against JJ I went back to Norell. It is a weird way to procedure as a hutt looking for lynching townies.
Then I didn't vote JJ and I pointed to the obvious incrimination.
Which you started admittedly. You switched 'cause if he was innocent you would be the next target, according to Mad (who died that night, IIRC).
On 6/11/2017 at 11:48 PM, Visovics said:Re-read, and it seems that mayor looks like the cop, Mad said a few times that JJ read as villager or godfather
I took that to mean his posts, but OK.
Is it at all possible that there is no messenger playing, i.e. that Biggs is the messenger, and that thus there is only a redirecing hutt left? That would implicate Onidsen as well, if both of you are sure of your roles. . .
@Visovics - you unvoted ovinomanc3r after agreeing that Onidsen and I were practically townies. . . that only leaves you suspect. What did you hope to achieve?
Right. Off to bed, I'll be back hopefully in time to end this, one way or the other. . .
8 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:Ahem. You recently stated that you didn't know you were rebel. (Vis -1 = -1)
I alway knew I was rebel, but before I thought I was town aligned rebel infiltrated, not rebel aligned infiltrated agent, I just misread the word order
7 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:OK, thanks. I ask 'cause 'Nosy Neighbor' and 'Watcher' are two different roles. The former allows you to know what I did, and the latter allows you to see who visited me. So if you are both, it's a bit odd, unless Biggs was just trying to give you a thematic role?
Nosy Neighbour is a role? I thought was the them as Sheriff.