I'd like to discuss Kagi, and if he can be the new shuttle for imp aces in the current meta.

Torp boats and Dengar/Tel are everywhere. Is it Kagi's time to fly?

Natural Target locks like from PTL Norra, or Fenn, etc. go onto Kagi if able.

Target locks from K4, like from Dengar/Tel or Ketsu/Bossk or some Torp Boat builds (OldManFenn with K4 on manaroo) go onto Kagi. This is my main reason, those lists live to alpha kill one of your important ships. Kagi says "I dont think so!". you basically reduce Tel to a 2PWT until Kagi is killed. Time for your squad to take him down.

What doesn't work? FCS doesn't work and neither does R4 agromech unfortunately, but you still have time to eliminate a jumpmaster with R4 before it fires a torp.

So do you fly Kagi naked? Well, I want him useful if you play against non-TL as well or FCS imperials,etc, so you can equip him with Vader to make a Kagi Doom Shuttle. Or Kylo crew, Op-spec to help your squad in action economy, or Rebel Captive, since he will have the TLs, and Dengar Tel cant shoot torps at your aces until he is dead, they have to shoot him instead giving them a stress, or go without shooting torps.

What do you think? A time for Kagi?

Some lists:

Captain Kagi (27) w/ Collision Detector (0) , Darth Vader (3) , Inspiring Recruit (1)

"Backdraft" (27) w/ Adaptability (0) , Fire-Control System (2) , Lightweight Frame (2) , Special Ops Training (0)

Colonel Vessery (35) w/ Veteran Instincts (1) , Tractor Beam (1) , Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1) , TIE/D (0)

Total: 100

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Captain Kagi (27) w/ Collision Detector (0) , Kylo Ren (3)

"Omega Leader" (21) , Juke (2) , Comm Relay (3)

"Whisper" (32) w/ Veteran Instincts (1) , Fire-Control System (2) , Rebel Captive (3) , Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 98

-----------------------------

Captain Kagi (27) w/ Electronic Baffle (1) , Kylo Ren (3)

"Quickdraw" (29) w/ A Score to Settle (0) , Fire-Control System (2) , Pattern Analyzer (2) , Lightweight Frame (2) , Special Ops Training (0)

Darth Vader (29) w/ Adaptability (0) , Advanced Targeting Computer (1) , Engine Upgrade (4) , TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 100

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Interesting! I was just looking at Kagi myself with similar thoughts. If you want to be annoying and burn focus tokens, instead of Vader and Recruit, maybe throw on Sensor Jammer (4 pts).

If you run one of those builds against torp boats or Dengar/Tel, let us know how it goes!

Kagi, OL, and Carnor wouldn't be bad. All 8's too.

We had a "movie night" on Monday.

75 points. 3 x 45 min rounds. And all the ships in your list need to be present in a single movie.

I ran standard 35 point Soontir with Kagi, Sensor Jammer, Palp.

It decimated all. I think Kagi may have actually gotten more kills than Fel! ?

Don't forget countermeasures as a Mod option too, IF they target lock you can just chuck one out the window

Its not a bad shout. I'd go with Kagi and rebel captive to shut off expertise.

Interesting idea and definitely a good call. What about throwing in tractor beam for extra annoyance (assuming the rest of the list is also PS8)?

If only he had an EPT and could take Expert Handling

I've considered it but I haven't tried it since I feel like there are more effective ships in that range, even if they might be vulnerable to those missiles he's going to eat; they can do more before going down. Also there are strong lists that don't care/need to get the TL the traditional way. This is coming from someone who flew him with Carnor and Soontir and had a pretty good record back in Wave 3/4/5 with it, but I haven't found a list I like him in in the current meta.

One thing to keep in mind is that if an opponent declares an attempt to TL a ship and measures but Kagi is also a viable target they can't take back the lock and take another action.

I'd love people to start running kagi. I don't have to take TL with my list yet I get 3 a turn! QuickDraw with FCS and Vess with the D. Kagi is a lot of points, but it might be worth playing around with him a bit depending on your local meta. If no one is playing Telgar or Dengossk, I wouldn't bother though.

Theres a certain someone in my area that is constantly running the "shotgun norra" as i call it (the usual high damage norra build with Jan around for an extra die). I imagine this would really irritate him lol

One thing I didn't mention is that I'd probably run Kagi with enhanced scopes. (A buddy and I actually did this for an epic game) and what's nice about that is he becomes a blocker, too, but also makes sure that lower PS ships have an "opportunity" to lock him.

Not really, while it might be the imperial biggs of Target locks it can't avoid the arcs of jumpmasters. A matter of fact Jumpmasters would want to TL this ship and just torp it off the board. That is a lot of firepower, a decent chunk of hit points and a sizable amount of MOV points, thus everything that an Alpha Strike wants to hit first.

If there was something that could consistently kill a JM5K is a single shot with little-none support that might make for a higher priority target then maybe just maybe it would do good. Butt instead the ability doesn't really foil any plans for Jumpmasters. The trick Biggs pulls is you want to hit something else and 2 shields often means plasma bonus doesn't trigger. With shuttles, you want to force feed them plasmas.

2 hours ago, wurms said:

Captain Kagi (27) w/ Collision Detector (0) ,

I think I'm missing something with Collision Detector - doesn't it only trigger on boosts, barrel rolls or decloaks? The Lambda has none of these. Otherwise my Kagi's having the dust taken off him

Rebel Captive would be a good card to put on him too since most of the time people tend to avoid the ship that has that, least far as ive noticed, unless they have no other shot.
Stressing anybody that needs a TL except those using K4 droids would really annoy them.

Also, Collision Detector has 2 paragraphs, one for boost/barrelroll allowed over obstacles and one for ignoring crits. Theyre independent since theyre not one big paragraph. Kagi wouldnt benefit from the first part, but if he hit a rock/debris he'd ignore the crit anyway.

He feels about 5pts overcosted.

That, combined with his dial, means I'll look elsewhere.

10 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

but if he hit a rock/debris he'd ignore the crit anyway

Thanks... makes sense now. Limited application but for 0 points why not.

Not to rain on the parade but don't most jump lists use r4 agromech? Kagi doesn't interact with that card or with fire control systems.

Edit: I just fully read the original post and this is covered but it seems like it destroys the usefulness of Kagi so much I assumed it wasn't considered.

Hot Shot copilot and reinforced deflectors seem like good additions to this build.

5 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Hot Shot copilot and reinforced deflectors seem like good additions to this build.

It's not a bad combo. The problem is you've now added 7 points, so he's a third of your list. I think you're better off putting those points in whatever you have that you expect to live. I'd be on the bubble about Rebel Captive.

42 minutes ago, nigeltastic said:

Not to rain on the parade but don't most jump lists use r4 agromech? Kagi doesn't interact with that card or with fire control systems.

Edit: I just fully read the original post and this is covered but it seems like it destroys the usefulness of Kagi so much I assumed it wasn't considered.

The triple boats usually use R4, but Dengar/Tel, and Ketsu/Bossk, and many OldManFenn use K4. Also Miranda with Missiles has to lock, PTL Norra, etc. You shutdown many alpha strikes and control how your list dies. I dont want Dengar and Tel firing torps at Whisper or Vessery. They are your damage dealers. Getting them alpha strike puts you at a big disadvantage which is the key to those lists. Kagi protects you and will absorb 3+ torpedoes from them or a bunch of primaries giving you time to take one out.

1 hour ago, tortugatron said:

I'd love people to start running kagi. I don't have to take TL with my list yet I get 3 a turn! QuickDraw with FCS and Vess with the D. Kagi is a lot of points, but it might be worth playing around with him a bit depending on your local meta. If no one is playing Telgar or Dengossk, I wouldn't bother though.

That is where crew choice comes in for Kagi, for the other lists. I like Kylo for other imperial lists, dropping their PS, or putting a blinded pilot on RAC, etc. Or Vader to drive crits through. Mara Jade + Ion Projector to clog lanes and cause problems for Biggs list formation flying, etc. etc. etc.

Kagi isn't the answer to everything, but when everyone is ******* about Torp Boats being OP and there are a total of 10 jumpmasters in the top 8 of store champs, spending 1/3 of your lists to try and counter them isnt a bad thing.

2 hours ago, AlexW said:

One thing I didn't mention is that I'd probably run Kagi with enhanced scopes. (A buddy and I actually did this for an epic game) and what's nice about that is he becomes a blocker, too, but also makes sure that lower PS ships have an "opportunity" to lock him.

This could be nice, move at PS0, but shoot at PS8. Enhanced Scopes + Ion Projector + Mara Jade can even keep K-bombers away, like mosquito repellent for your aces. Mess with Biggs lists and Swarms as well.

2 hours ago, wurms said:

The triple boats usually use R4, but Dengar/Tel, and Ketsu/Bossk, and many OldManFenn use K4. Also Miranda with Missiles has to lock, PTL Norra, etc. You shutdown many alpha strikes and control how your list dies. I dont want Dengar and Tel firing torps at Whisper or Vessery. They are your damage dealers. Getting them alpha strike puts you at a big disadvantage which is the key to those lists. Kagi protects you and will absorb 3+ torpedoes from them or a bunch of primaries giving you time to take one out.

That is where crew choice comes in for Kagi, for the other lists. I like Kylo for other imperial lists, dropping their PS, or putting a blinded pilot on RAC, etc. Or Vader to drive crits through. Mara Jade + Ion Projector to clog lanes and cause problems for Biggs list formation flying, etc. etc. etc.

Kagi isn't the answer to everything, but when everyone is ******* about Torp Boats being OP and there are a total of 10 jumpmasters in the top 8 of store champs, spending 1/3 of your lists to try and counter them isnt a bad thing.

I still have a serious problem spending a large portion of my list on a ship that is basically there to provide a Biggs effect, yet isn't as reliable as Biggs. If they can get behind Kagi, then they're largely fighting you with their full list against your 70-point list.

It's also assuming that the Attanni lists are making heavy use of Target Lock, which hasn't been the case in my experience. They're often more than happy to use their action to reposition or just take a second Focus token.

It's a lot of points to spend on something that might help you against some top lists, but has a high chance of not helping much at all against the middle-tier lists that you have to fight to reach the top lists.

2 hours ago, wurms said:

This could be nice, move at PS0, but shoot at PS8. Enhanced Scopes + Ion Projector + Mara Jade can even keep K-bombers away, like mosquito repellent for your aces. Mess with Biggs lists and Swarms as well.

Not a bad build, and in fact I ran it with Mara (though no mod). The nice thing at that time was that his higher PS was often above tie swarms and I won multiple games by stressing out the swarm and then just getting behind...with the shuttle. I still think it's a bit expensive, leaving you with under 70 points for the rest of the list.

38 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

I still have a serious problem spending a large portion of my list on a ship that is basically there to provide a Biggs effect, yet isn't as reliable as Biggs. If they can get behind Kagi, then they're largely fighting you with their full list against your 70-point list.

It's also assuming that the Attanni lists are making heavy use of Target Lock, which hasn't been the case in my experience. They're often more than happy to use their action to reposition or just take a second Focus token.

It's a lot of points to spend on something that might help you against some top lists, but has a high chance of not helping much at all against the middle-tier lists that you have to fight to reach the top lists.

In using Kagi, one thing I got very good at was drawing opponents back to where Kagi was. Attani is a reason I don't know that Kagi is ideal in the meta right now, though Fenn does TL when he can, but it's more a minor annoyance for a list like that.

I haven't tried her but she seems like a great pilot.