16 minutes ago, Snipafist said:Does it count as a non-Demolisher Gladiator if you're using it in addition to a Demolisher Gladiator? Because I've got a lot of practice with that one...
Nope 
"I'm not Upgrade." "Oh, you will be." - June Writing Challenge - VOTE NOW!
6 hours ago, Truthiness said:I generally abstain from these contests since I'm part of the Stele Squadron team.
Steles, arranged into a squadron!
Sorry, I saw the typo and I ran with it.
7 hours ago, Truthiness said:I generally abstain from these contests since I'm part of the Stele Squadron team.
S-T-E-E-L
Like the metal.
You literally write on the blog.
On 6/1/2017 at 11:24 AM, BiggsIRL said:
Some have already been written! Look at you folks, quick on the draw!
Someone should take MS-1 Ion Cannons now that the Hammerhead is out.
I've been trying to convert people to the holy GR-75 Combat Refit if you want me to write about it, I can do that.
1 minute ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:I've been trying to convert people to the holy GR-75 Combat Refit if you want me to write about it, I can do that.
i would read this.
I'll still write about a non-Demolisher Gladiator but it would mostly come down to "how to follow Demolisher and finish what he started."
I love these contests!
I'm going to do Ackbar Nebulons. May George Carlin have mercy on my soul.
1 minute ago, Crabbok said:I love these contests!
I'm going to do Ackbar Nebulons. May George Carlin have mercy on my soul.
1 hour ago, Snipafist said:I'll still write about a non-Demolisher Gladiator but it would mostly come down to "how to follow Demolisher and finish what he started."
I dunno man, I often fly a two Glad/1 ISD fleet with a varying squadron wing, and the last couple of times I played it, poor positioning meant that Demo didn't actually fire any shots. . . Furthermore, while I like the Demo title, it isn't mandatory for me. It's ten points! That's a TIE fighter, TIE Bomber, ECM, the difference between an ISD-I and a II. . . sometimes I overlook it, find it unnecessary. . . good but not mandatory. And if I want to focus on a squadron fleet (Sloane - hypothetical, Motti bombers, etc), then I forgo it completely in favor of - as I said - more squads and squad support. . . which is why I'm constantly surprised when people say that it's an 'auto-include' or that every fleet with a Glad has it.
5 hours ago, BiggsIRL said:S-T-E-E-L
Like the metal.
You literally write on the blog.
God **** it! ******* Stele Open has forever ruined me!
1 hour ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:which is why I'm constantly surprised when people say that it's an 'auto-include' or that every fleet with a Glad has it.
Well.. as far as second assertion goes, it does have some statistical data to back it: at Worlds only one fleet with GSD in it didn't have Demolisher. In a Summer Vassal tourney, there is also only one fleet with GSD and no Demolisher (and this time it wasn't me! )
1 hour ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:I dunno man, I often fly a two Glad/1 ISD fleet with a varying squadron wing, and the last couple of times I played it, poor positioning meant that Demo didn't actually fire any shots. . . Furthermore, while I like the Demo title, it isn't mandatory for me. It's ten points! That's a TIE fighter, TIE Bomber, ECM, the difference between an ISD-I and a II. . . sometimes I overlook it, find it unnecessary. . . good but not mandatory. And if I want to focus on a squadron fleet (Sloane - hypothetical, Motti bombers, etc), then I forgo it completely in favor of - as I said - more squads and squad support. . . which is why I'm constantly surprised when people say that it's an 'auto-include' or that every fleet with a Glad has it.
Being able to use all those black dice at the end of a move even once is worth 10 points and good Demolisher use sees it happen several times in a game. Fundamentally breaking the attack rules of Armada on an offensively powerful ship is so valuable that I can't fathom what would be better worth 10 points in your fleet provided your fleet type wants a Gladiator.
52 minutes ago, PT106 said:Well.. as far as second assertion goes, it does have some statistical data to back it: at Worlds only one fleet with GSD in it didn't have Demolisher. In a Summer Vassal tourney, there is also only one fleet with GSD and no Demolisher (and this time it wasn't me!
I am aware of the data, don't get me wrong - that's what I mean when I say I'm surprised. How many fleets at Worlds, how many in the Vassal tourney, and only two didn't have Demo?! I find it surprising that people see it as the only way to run a GSD, just like so many people only run Admo (side note: I have only used said title once). The GSDs are gunships to be treated like MC30s (more or less), which in turn are purely means* to get close to an important enemy ship and lay into them with APT/ACM. Thus, titles are bonuses, not mandatory. If it comes between APT/OE on a 2nd Glad and Demo, I always choose the former.
*in my mind.
6 minutes ago, Snipafist said:Being able to use all those black dice at the end of a move even once is worth 10 points and good Demolisher use sees it happen several times in a game. Fundamentally breaking the attack rules of Armada on an offensively powerful ship is so valuable that I can't fathom what would be better worth 10 points in your fleet provided your fleet type wants a Gladiator.
I'm not saying Demo isn't good - obviously it's fantastic. But I like to think about opportunities I might otherwise lose. See, as I mentioned above, if I have to give up cards or ships/squads that I consider important (that extra TIE fighter that makes my fighter cover go from mediocre to good, that OE/APT combo on the 2nd Glad, The difference between an ISD-I &-II), then I'll forego it, because I believe that I can get more utility out of them then from the title. The extra TIE keeps the enemy fighter off me just that bit longer. 2 APTs are better than 1. I have always considered ISD-IIs to be more useful, given their extended range. Upgrading an Raider to another Glad would also be a justifiable cause to not take the title in my opinion. Because, normally, with the title I can seldom get first/last, so it comes down to attack at long range, sidle up to the enemy and release one salvo at close range. Next turn, either you're at close range (and if you've planned it well, are double-arcing) and so don't need to attack after you move, or your enemy has moved away, and all you get is the long range shot+1 close range shot combo, which typically does about as much damage as just the close range shot*. If instead I can have 2 GSDs at close range of ships, and an ISD-II holding the center/one flank, then the choices are harder for my opponent - veer towards the 2 APT carrying GSDs, or face the ISD. Again - if I can afford it the title's in my fleet. But I don't go out of my way to afford it. I'd say it appears 2/3 of the time, and has seen usage a further 2/3 of that time. . . so 4/9 overall? Is my math right? The times it isn't used can be my own poor flying, or my opponent's poor/good flying, making it so that either I'm at close range anyway, or out of range.
*Obviously the title is most useful for times when you start out of range, then move into range. But that only gives you 1 long range shot (starting outside of speed 4, then moving speed 3, probably lands you on the edge of close, right?) or if you're lucky, 1 extra close range shot. Worth 10 points? Definitely. Worth dropping an OE/APT combo from the 2nd Glad? Nope.
Just now, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:*Obviously the title is most useful for times when you start out of range, then move into range. But that only gives you 1 long range shot (starting outside of speed 4, then moving speed 3, probably lands you on the edge of close, right?) or if you're lucky, 1 extra close range shot. Worth 10 points? Definitely. Worth dropping an OE/APT combo from the 2nd Glad? Nope.
The thing is if you're designing your fleet well, it will never come down to whether you're dropping crucial upgrades from the other Gladiator to fit in the Demolisher title. You don't start by trimming crucial upgrades, you start by trimming fat. Scaling down your squadrons a bit, trimming off superfluous upgrades on other ships, downgrading a ship just a little bit, etc. Thus I find your argument to be fairly insincere: nobody is actually going to say "well, I guess I'm bringing this second underequipped Gladiator because somebody just ate up all my points, Demolisher" (cut to Demolisher giving a guilty shrug). You make it work. It might mean no second Gladiator and instead a different combat ship instead. That's fine. Raiders are a-okay supplementing Demolisher and Arquitens can be too.
17 minutes ago, Snipafist said:The thing is if you're designing your fleet well, it will never come down to whether you're dropping crucial upgrades from the other Gladiator to fit in the Demolisher title. You don't start by trimming crucial upgrades, you start by trimming fat. Scaling down your squadrons a bit, trimming off superfluous upgrades on other ships, downgrading a ship just a little bit, etc. Thus I find your argument to be fairly insincere: nobody is actually going to say "well, I guess I'm bringing this second underequipped Gladiator because somebody just ate up all my points, Demolisher" (cut to Demolisher giving a guilty shrug). You make it work. It might mean no second Gladiator and instead a different combat ship instead. That's fine. Raiders are a-okay supplementing Demolisher and Arquitens can be too.
I agree in most parts, except the change your combat ship bit. . . I like the ISD/2GSD build because it suits my Imp playstyle. When it's just the 3 ships, I fit the title just fine, but when I try for a dedicated fighter/bomber wing (as different form my default Howl/Dengar/4Ints) that points become sparse.
For example, the following list:
[Flagship] ISD-II
Motti
ECM
GSD-1
OE
APT
GSD-1
OE
APT
Goz cruiser
BCC
Jumpmaster
2x TIE/A
2x TIE/F
4x TIE/B
is exactly 400 points. No place even for a bid. If I remove any fighters, then the fighter wing is under-strength. If I make one GSD a Raider, I lose effectiveness in Combat (I think). So, no room for Demo.
I may just be bad at making up lists, but that's another story. The point is that with my current comtempable skill at list building, I can easily make do with out Demo, seeing its addition more as a 'Sweet, I can fit Demo', then a 'Gotta fit Demo, gotta fit Demo'. When calculating the cost of a GSD, my default cost is 65. 56+4(OE)+5(APT). Demo only comes in once the rest of the fleet is built - as you said, essentials:
1) Admiral (default Motti, unless I have a specific idea)
2) Ship types (ISD-II, GSD-I, GSD-I, etc)
3) Vital cards for the role (OE/APT*, ECM**, etc)
4) Squad cover (depending on role, the Howl ball, or bombers, etc)
5) Useful-but-not-so-vital-cards (Demo, GT, SW-7, etc)
6) Further stuff as points allow
*These always go together.
**Where applicable.
25 minutes ago, Snipafist said:Being able to use all those black dice at the end of a move even once is worth 10 points and good Demolisher use sees it happen several times in a game.
It all depends on the fleet. In some fleets and with some strategies there will be no targets at the end of the move, and then that ability is definitely not worth 10 points.
12 minutes ago, Snipafist said:You don't start by trimming crucial upgrades, you start by trimming fat.
And sometimes Demolisher is that fat. An anecdotal evidence: I started my Worlds fleet with two gladiators (Demolisher included). After some testing I discovered that a better play is to replace Demolisher with 2 Raiders to get to 5 activations.
P.S. Somehow I feel that my article just started to write itself
*sigh*
Time to finally man up and do it.
I call Devastator.
BUMPITY BUMP.
i've got a crazy Assault Frigate build for Sato that might be worth talking about, or it be garbage, i'm not sure. So sure, gimme that.
Has anyone done anything about RLB raiders? That may be both fun and engaging
1 hour ago, pwnertrainee said:Has anyone done anything about RLB raiders? That may be both fun and engaging
Hopefully by the end of the month I'll have something with enough data for either the Motti ISD nonsense, or its new Rebel StM counterpart I stole from @BiggsIRL, which may also include a case for Redundant Shields. Do any of those qualify?