What's conventional wisdom in kitting out a Raider? Is there anything that flat out doesn't work that I should avoid? Do I back it up with lots of generics or a few good aces? I don't play a lot of epic but there's a good chance my usual sparing partner will be picking up a C-ROC. I've got a better handle on how to use my Gozanti, but the recent BF2 trailer has me missing the mini star destroyer. Any tips are greatly appreciated.

Raiders are best with tons of ordnance in my opinion, with ordnance tubes - save the energy for regen. Also, don't completely fill it up - 130 points or so seems best to me, since it's already attacking twice per round with primaries. Defenders are the best in any game, and do great in epic, so pair a whole bunch of Defenders with the Raider. Go for the TIE/D with Ion Cannon for maximum damage potential.

Thank you for flying epic! The Raider is awesome. May the Force be with you!

Empire Epic (297)

Raider-class Corvette (Fore) (64) - Raider-class Corv. (Fore)
Quad Laser Cannons (6), Engineering Team (4), Cluster Bombs (4)

Raider-class Corvette (Aft) (80) - Raider-class Corv. (Aft)
Tactician (2), Fleet Officer (3), Quad Laser Cannons (6), Quad Laser Cannons (6), Gunnery Team (4), Cluster Bombs (4), Optimized Generators (5)

Onyx Squadron Pilot (31) - TIE Defender
TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Onyx Squadron Pilot (31) - TIE Defender
TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Onyx Squadron Pilot (31) - TIE Defender
TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

"Howlrunner" (21) - TIE Fighter
Swarm Leader (3)

Obsidian Squadron Pilot (13) - TIE Fighter

Obsidian Squadron Pilot (13) - TIE Fighter

Obsidian Squadron Pilot (13) - TIE Fighter

I like this. Try it. You'll like it. Get close. Real close. Uncomfortably close. Lol.

Thanks for the suggestions!

I actually dont like the ordnance logout.

Think about this way, ordnance goes to range three, AND requires an action, why not bring a bomber for 25-30 points instead? Turbolasers DONT require an action, have inbuilt mods, AND go to range 5 So by using ordnance, your giving up potentially 3-5 range 4-5 salvos that would be wasted with range 3 munitions.

Weapons Engineer is a MUST, the Raider hungers for target locks more than any other ship, targeting synchronizer is a worthy combo.

Use Swarm tactics or Decoy to make your raider shoot at PS8 or 9, really makes it much more scary, and can be the differance between "My raider got nuked before it fired back" and "My Raider nuked everything before it could fire"

Use Engineering team and Optimizied Generators for energy, must have auto includes, DO NOT SKIMP.

I recomend two turbo laser turrets, one in back, one in front, two in back if your opponent is going for an alpha strike, angle your raider if you have too to put all three Turbolasers on a target.

Forget any range one weapons, if enemy's get in range one, they either kill you, or you crush them by overlapping.

Darth Vader with a regen build (think the title) can be terrifying, if something REALLY needs to die NOW, you can vader four times at range to get something f@*&ed but good.

Keep some Acedemys as a screen around the raider as cannon fodder, these guys will do no-little damadge, they exist as meat sheilds for your raider, nothing else The raider is worth protecting this way, 100%.

Try to rush forward when you can, a slow rolling raider lets opponents slow roll themselves into a firing line against your raider, rushing raider makes enemys fly away to avoid getting rammed, if if they are avoiding getting rammed, they probs arent shooting at you

The Vader Raider is a thing to be feared, since you don't have to take the shield tokens from the section he's assigned to. It's an energy hog, but four crits at the cost of 8 shields is frequently worth it to just erase a meddlesome ship.

And personally, I consider the Ion Battery to be the superior weapon. It's great for going toe-to-toe with other capital ships, and works well enough on smaller ships.

Captain Jonus

3 hours ago, Shadow345 said:

Captain Jonus

Too expensive of an upgrade. He is 22 points for two rerolls, more when you inevitbly give him some weapons too. I wouldnt bother, plus keeping him in rage 1 without ramming yourself is hard. Just buy more upgrades for cheaper

4 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

The Vader Raider is a thing to be feared, since you don't have to take the shield tokens from the section he's assigned to. It's an energy hog, but four crits at the cost of 8 shields is frequently worth it to just erase a meddlesome ship.

And personally, I consider the Ion Battery to be the superior weapon. It's great for going toe-to-toe with other capital ships, and works well enough on smaller ships.

4 hours ago, Shadow345 said:

Captain Jonus

I'm an ordnance Raider fan myself. Homing missiles and don't spend the target lock so you can pound away on the same target with multiple 4-red attacks. Dice variance even unmodded suggests some decent hits, and if you include Jonus or some other method of modification it gets gross.

13 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

The Vader Raider is a thing to be feared, since you don't have to take the shield tokens from the section he's assigned to. It's an energy hog, but four crits at the cost of 8 shields is frequently worth it to just erase a meddlesome ship.

And personally, I consider the Ion Battery to be the superior weapon. It's great for going toe-to-toe with other capital ships, and works well enough on smaller ships.

The sad part of Vader Raider is the opponent chooses which side you lose the shields. It limits his usage somewhat. (Huge Ship Rules page 3 - Damage section - if a huge ship suffers damage from a source that does not explicitly affect a single section, the opposing player chooses which section suffers the damage.)

That said... I like the ion batteries myself. Needs something else so you can provide some additional heavy hitting when required, but a pair of ion batteries are nice for the range band and potential face up cards. A turbolaser battery mixed in can help here.

It really depends on what you expect to go up against. If your opponent is bringing three hundred points of small/large ships (or ~250 and a skinny transport), you're going to want to skip the Single Turbolasers. If your opponent is likely to bring a corvette, you'll definitely want the turbolasers.

Last weekend I played in an Epic event. The last time we did one the guy who won was the one who didn't bring any Epic ships, so this one had a "must spend at least 2 Epic Points" requirement. I was expecting to see a lot of skinny transports, so I brought a Raider with Instigator Impetuous, Weapons Engineer, Ordnance Tubes, and three Homing Missiles (among other things). I also brought a Gozanti with a Single Turbolaser and four docked TIE Bombers with Plasma Torpedoes and chimps. I figured between the plasmas (which you can effectively fire at Range 5 if you deploy the bombers with four-straights) and the turbolaser I could alpha out my opponent's transport pretty quickly and then let the Raider deal with the other ships.

As it happened, my opponent brought a skinny CR-90, rather than a transport. My anti-epic alpha strike worked pretty well, but left me in a situation where I had no shot on the corvette's aft section because the crippled fore section was still in the way. The CR-90 having become an unstoppable battering ram, I sent the Gozer in to get in its way and brought the Raider around the rear. Fortunately the Raider was able to finish the CR-90 after only one face-up damage had been assigned to my Gozer.

By the time time was called, I had destroyed the CR-90 and a couple of Green Squadron A-Wings and lost two bombers, but I didn't give up half points on any of my Epics, so I won.

(Full list here .)

the worst thing you can do, I think, is dump too many points into it because, and here's the weird thing:

It's not very effective .

It's a big, awkward ship that moves slowly and only has target locks for its dice modification and has weird arcs that are hard to use and a big blind spot that draws the attention of everyone who's had to face a CR90 and its big turret. It has five shots total and 26 HP for 130-150 points: for that price you could easily afford an attack wing of 4-5 Defenders with 24-30 HP behind 3 green dice.

Putting more points into it to try and MAKE it effective is dumping good points after bad.

But on the other hand, if they don't kill it, bad things happen to them - not the least of which is that it's half of your list in score that they won't be able to remove unless they make a very dedicated effort.

So play into that. Go durable, yes, but go budget most of all: Maximize your investment and make it an urgent target to take out, but don't make it the centerpiece of your list. Emphasize the strengths of the Huge ships (shield regen, auto-destroying ships, long-range weapons) while avoiding the pitfalls of their use (no Focus means each die rolled only has a 50% of hitting!) and draw them in.

Remember, only rookies try to fill up every upgrade slot.

This has been my build of late, coming it at 126 points.

AFT: Shield Technician, Weapon Engineer, Quad Laser Battery, Ion Cannon Battery, Instigator

FORE: Quad Laser Battery

Instigator is best title. With the Shield Technician it's basically one free energy every turn. Weapon Engineer is more cost effective than Captain Jonus for helping the offense, though Captain Needa is very tempting to laugh at rocks - I've taken him as well, but regretted it in the end.

If I were to add things, it'd be a Comm Booster, WED Repair Droid, Automated Protocols, and Engineering Team. That together lets you build up more energy on straights, repair with the Droid, while still using Recover actions boosted by the title and Shield Technician. It would be impressively bulky, but would come into the 150 point range - particularly because you'd probably want Tibanna Gas to make sure you don't run OUT of gas after using the Droid a lot.

With this setup you'd want a TON of other very killy ships and use the Raider as a point bank - "Oh, gee, you killed 150 points of my list, and I killed 190 of yours? This regenerating Raider says that you'll never earn the other 75 points you need to win..."

Frankly, I'd prefer a Gozanti at this point over a Raider. There are much more efficient and effective builds for a Gozanti that play to the strengths of Epic cards, which get too expensive if placed on a Raider. Suppressor + Grand Moff Tarkin + Comms Booster + Broadcast Array is horrifically disruptive, giving and/or removing multiple actions per turn, while still leaving space for Shield Technician + Automated Protocols and the freaking turret, at half the price or less of a Raider.

but What's better than Vadering someone to death? Vadering someone to death in a ship that can regenerate! Oh, wait, Imperial ships don't have regen? Well, there are two ships that do..

Raider Aft w/ Darth Vader, Shield Tech, Ion Cannon Battery, Quad Laser Battery, Backup Shield Generator, Optimized Generator, Instigator

Rader Fore w/ Ion Cannon Battery, Tibanna Gas Supplies

Comes to 142 points. This thing is going to RUN through the Energy - hence the Optimized Generator and Tibanna Gas. Any turns that you get a shot, you're pinging shields to Recover next turn - or at the end of the Combat Phase with Backup Shield Generator. Ion Cannon Batteries are chosen over STLs because there's still a chance of hitting, they match the Raider's main guns, and if they hit they deal two crits and an ion token with Vadering. STLs are good too because range 5 is surprisingly long, and you don't care if they have high Agility, you're still dealing crits! Engineering Team is a MAYBE because it's good but makes you predictable - and you're pretty expensive as it is for a glorified suicide sled.

One other option for running alongside Raider that I'm a fan of: Howlrunner with Decoy. Swapping the Raider's PS4 with her PS8 lets it unleash its attacks much earlier in the round, and she gives it rerolls on the primary weapon attack if she can stay in R1. It's not quite at the level of Roark for the CR90, but it's still a large number of attacks at PS8. She can also give rerolls to the ships you've held back for defense, so she's usually points well spent. I prefer Decoy over Swarm Tactics due to the ability to hang out at R2 if needed.

I agree that it depends on what you are flying against. It is also important that you don't want to put too many points into your Raider (or any epic ship).

Having an effective snub nosed fighter compliment is highly important. It will make or break you. You need to have something to deal with all the little ships that come after you. You also need something to fire at the enemy Epic's rear to help bring it down. Tie Fighters are great for taking out enemy fighters, but with the Reinforce token, they just aren't that good at taking out enemy capital ships. Tie Bombers are excellent to do both and I can't recommend them enough. Don't forget about Ion Torpedoes, either. Tie Interceptors are good. Tie Advanced are also good as they can survive some hits, have missiles, and you can give them great Systems (like Sensor Jammer or ATC). Tie Strikers are also fun. Tie Adv Prototype V1 can survive with the free Evade, but are best used as Missile carriers.

For the load out of the Raider, there are several ways to go. The Ordnance version is popular, but you have to be close to use it. Don't rush forward towards all the enemy and expect to kill everything and be unscathed. If you go this route, I would go for something that can kill the enemy small ships fast. You do get a lot of energy for Shield repair. Impetuous title is good, as well as Weapons Engineer crew. Instigator isn't a bad choice, either.

Single Turbo Lasers are great for killing from a distance. If you want to slow roll and force the enemy towards you, this is a great ship. Or, you have an enemy CR-90 that wants to try to circle around you, it is also good. I've seen Single Turbos take out X-wings when they don't have a Focus token (not in one shot, mind you). Only A-wings can really avoid them. Make sure you have a good enough fighter screen to protect your Raider. I can see more Tie Fighters being better here as you don't need them as much to damage the capital ships.

Ion Cannon Battery is also a good choice. It can really cripple those epic ships. It's got the range and those criticals just murder epics. It's also nice to hit smaller ships that you need to kill, too. It's a good All Rounder weapon. It's also not bad on Ordnance ships, either, if you have the space. It lets you use that Energy for something.

I say just think of what type of ship you want and what type of fighter screen. Then, you can figure out the specifics later. If you want to clean up fighter screen first, you can always go for someone like Tarkin on your ship to help out. He can give out the Focus....or take it away, which is very important. Pick one ship that is going to eat it that round. I'd love to try Admiral Ozzal on a Single Turbo Laser sniper ship.

EDIT: OH, I also think the idea of putting either Jonus or Howlrunner by your Raider to boost it's attacks is.....lame. Yes, it's in the rules, but it's just not very thematic. I guess, do you want to win? Or do you want to have fun (and maybe win)?

28 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

EDIT: OH, I also think the idea of putting either Jonus or Howlrunner by your Raider to boost it's attacks is.....lame. Yes, it's in the rules, but it's just not very thematic. I guess, do you want to win? Or do you want to have fun (and maybe win)?

I agree with you on a lot of things... and I won't run Jonus beside a Raider any more (did it once) but Howlrunner I have less an issue with in this instance. Howlrunner allows ONE roll only and only on the primary weapon. The Raider is unable to get a focus or effectively modify it's own dice. This one synergistic bump isn't overpowered.

It's not like I'm running Jan Ors with Decoy at range 2 of the CR90 here or anything....

5 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

I agree with you on a lot of things... and I won't run Jonus beside a Raider any more (did it once) but Howlrunner I have less an issue with in this instance. Howlrunner allows ONE roll only and only on the primary weapon. The Raider is unable to get a focus or effectively modify it's own dice. This one synergistic bump isn't overpowered.

It's not like I'm running Jan Ors with Decoy at range 2 of the CR90 here or anything....

I hear you. I just think it's power gaming to do it. Yes, it's not as bad, but I really just want to go with flavor. Meh, it's not like I'm trying to win tournaments.

4 hours ago, LagJanson said:

I'm an ordnance Raider fan myself. Homing missiles and don't spend the target lock so you can pound away on the same target with multiple 4-red attacks. Dice variance even unmodded suggests some decent hits, and if you include Jonus or some other method of modification it gets gross.

The sad part of Vader Raider is the opponent chooses which side you lose the shields. It limits his usage somewhat. (Huge Ship Rules page 3 - Damage section - if a huge ship suffers damage from a source that does not explicitly affect a single section, the opposing player chooses which section suffers the damage.)

That said... I like the ion batteries myself. Needs something else so you can provide some additional heavy hitting when required, but a pair of ion batteries are nice for the range band and potential face up cards. A turbolaser battery mixed in can help here.

Yeah that is a downside, The Varaider sucks up energy like (how is it said in Netrunner) like a Martian Tera Bot?

I am starting to wonder if construction droid which allows you to discard damage cards is better for Varaider than shield technician. Sucks up more energy, but allows you to be more liberal with Vader so you don't have to worry about vadering into hull.

Has anyone tried a shuttle as Raider support?

Colonel Jendon with ST-321 I could see really helping a raider, allowing a target lock at long range for turbolasers.

Captain Kagi would do the opposite, meking it harder for enemy ordnance alpha strikes to hit you, and enemy epic ships to get dice mods.

The Raider is good at absorbing damage but is rather ineffective at dealing it out. As others have mentioned above, it's good to think of it as a points fortress rather than an offensive piece. It is fairly capable in an anti-Epic ship role due to volume of fire, but will struggle to deal consistent damage otherwise due to the lack of modifiers for your attacks.

I usually go with something like:

This is a build focused on Energy efficiency and regeneration. Instigator, Shield Tech, Construction Droid and Backup Shield Generator let you regenerate shields and hull while not wasting excess energy. Backup Shield Generator may seem redundant, but lets you recover shields on the Fore and Aft on the same turn, gives you some form of regen if your Fore gets crippled and is a good place to burn Energy in the End Phase if you are going to be gaining more Energy than you have capacity for next turn anyway. Optimized Generators boosts your energy production by 50-100% and allows you to keep firing your Secondaries while still keeping your shields up. Engineering Team can also be a good buy, but I find myself using the bank maneuvers almost constantly, so I've left them out here. Sensor Team is essential since you want to be maintaining your distance. If you have points to spend, Tibanna Gas Supplies is nice and Gunnery Team can make your offense more reliable if you have the Energy to spare. Supercharged Power Cells from the C-ROC also look like a good buy to boost your opening Turbolaser Salvo.

Strategy: Keep your shields up and keep a good reserve of Energy so you can get them back ASAP. Your primary weapon is fairly weak - 4 dice with only the possibility of a TL to modify is pretty lackluster, particularly since the target will be getting their Range 3+ bonus most of the time. You are generally going to be better off using your Energy and TLs for your Tubolaser shots, which are much more effective than you might expect. The 2x Agility penalty is offset by the built in soft focus and the fact that you ignore range bonuses. Against AGI 2 (no focus) and below, you're still going to be getting more reliable damage than your primary. Against lower AGI targets you can even get away with firing these with no mods. Weapons Engineer is worth considering, but here I'm assuming you're going to be concentrating fire on single targets, so multiple TLs aren't going to do much for you and instead the Construction Droid gives you more regen power. I also like Captain Needa to give you better maneuvering options (there is a huge difference between a 50% chance to take a damage and a 100% chance of eating a face-up damage card for overlapping an obstacle)

I've avoided putting upgrades on the Fore since it's the most vulnerable to being crippled (causing everything but a hardpoint to be discarded). In general you want to keep your Fore pointed at the enemy, with maybe a 20-30 degree offset so you can use your Aft mounted Tubolasers. Keeping the Fore forward keeps shots off your Aft, where all of your Energy is stored along with your essential upgrades. If you lose your Aft, you're pretty much done since you can't store or generate enough Energy to keep your shields up or operate your secondaries. If you lose your Fore, you lose most of your ability to regenerate shields and prevent incoming damage, but you do still have a backup shield generator, your turbolasers and the ability to gain and store energy, so it's not game over.

4 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I agree that it depends on what you are flying against. It is also important that you don't want to put too many points into your Raider (or any epic ship).

Having an effective snub nosed fighter compliment is highly important. It will make or break you. You need to have something to deal with all the little ships that come after you. You also need something to fire at the enemy Epic's rear to help bring it down. Tie Fighters are great for taking out enemy fighters, but with the Reinforce token, they just aren't that good at taking out enemy capital ships. Tie Bombers are excellent to do both and I can't recommend them enough. Don't forget about Ion Torpedoes, either. Tie Interceptors are good. Tie Advanced are also good as they can survive some hits, have missiles, and you can give them great Systems (like Sensor Jammer or ATC). Tie Strikers are also fun. Tie Adv Prototype V1 can survive with the free Evade, but are best used as Missile carriers.

For the load out of the Raider, there are several ways to go. The Ordnance version is popular, but you have to be close to use it. Don't rush forward towards all the enemy and expect to kill everything and be unscathed. If you go this route, I would go for something that can kill the enemy small ships fast. You do get a lot of energy for Shield repair. Impetuous title is good, as well as Weapons Engineer crew. Instigator isn't a bad choice, either.

Single Turbo Lasers are great for killing from a distance. If you want to slow roll and force the enemy towards you, this is a great ship. Or, you have an enemy CR-90 that wants to try to circle around you, it is also good. I've seen Single Turbos take out X-wings when they don't have a Focus token (not in one shot, mind you). Only A-wings can really avoid them. Make sure you have a good enough fighter screen to protect your Raider. I can see more Tie Fighters being better here as you don't need them as much to damage the capital ships.

Ion Cannon Battery is also a good choice. It can really cripple those epic ships. It's got the range and those criticals just murder epics. It's also nice to hit smaller ships that you need to kill, too. It's a good All Rounder weapon. It's also not bad on Ordnance ships, either, if you have the space. It lets you use that Energy for something.

I say just think of what type of ship you want and what type of fighter screen. Then, you can figure out the specifics later. If you want to clean up fighter screen first, you can always go for someone like Tarkin on your ship to help out. He can give out the Focus....or take it away, which is very important. Pick one ship that is going to eat it that round. I'd love to try Admiral Ozzal on a Single Turbo Laser sniper ship.

EDIT: OH, I also think the idea of putting either Jonus or Howlrunner by your Raider to boost it's attacks is.....lame. Yes, it's in the rules, but it's just not very thematic. I guess, do you want to win? Or do you want to have fun (and maybe win)?

Don't sleep on the TIE/D. Deltas with Ion Cannons can do a lot of damage, especially against Epic ships due to their vulnerability to Ion tokens. Comms Booster is also well worth the 4 points, especially if you're using Interceptors. Spending one energy to remove all stress tokens AND assigning a focus token is absolutely golden, especially for someone like a Raging Soontir.

As for Howl, agree to disagree. For me, part of the fun of Epic is trying to find all these weird combos that don't exist anywhere else. It's the only part of the game where a card like Decoy can actually be really good, and I don't feel bad about using it to make my heavy points investment more of a workhorse any more than I would about using her to power a swarm of Academy Pilots.

2 hours ago, Transmogrifier said:

Backup Shield Generator may seem redundant, but lets you recover shields on the Fore and Aft on the same turn, gives you some form of regen if your Fore gets crippled and is a good place to burn Energy in the End Phase if you are going to be gaining more Energy than you have capacity for next turn anyway.

so I like Backup Shield Generator too, but a Recover action just says "Add shields", it doesn't say that there is a fore/aft restriction. So if you're down 2 shields in front and 3 shields in back, you can Recover for 5 and regen them both!

14 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

so I like Backup Shield Generator too, but a Recover action just says "Add shields", it doesn't say that there is a fore/aft restriction. So if you're down 2 shields in front and 3 shields in back, you can Recover for 5 and regen them both!

It does, but it first states that you must choose a section, then discard all energy and recover shields equal to the number of energy tokens discarded, up to that section's shield value. So you can't actually recover shields on to sections at once.

14 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

It does, but it first states that you must choose a section, then discard all energy and recover shields equal to the number of energy tokens discarded, up to that section's shield value. So you can't actually recover shields on to sections at once.

Er what?

4 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Er what?

Ships with the action icon in their action bar may perform the recover action. To do so, remove all energy tokens from the corresponding Ship card. For each energy token removed, that ship recovers one shield. For ships with multiple Ship cards, for each energy token removed, the ship recovers one shield on either of its section. A huge ship cannot exceed a ship card’s shield value with a recover action.

Okay, have I been playing Epic wrong this whole time?! Yikes.