Personally, my favorite way to play this game, is with three X wings against six TIE fighters, Im a filthy casual to the core.

But when I look at the competitive scene, I see a bunch of disgusting stupid atrocious nonsense thats....getting better.

FFG is slow, but they see the problems, palp is reasonable now, JM5K is still bad, but it was worse. We have more ships, and more cards than ever before, and a lot of those are Iconic star wars ships beloved by many (first order stuff is my favorite). The weak scum ships are getting the buffs to let Starviper lovers get their deserved fix, JM5K days ARE numbered. Biggs and Miranda are annoying, but will probs receive a minor nerf in the next year to keep up with the new power level.

Imperials will have their day in the sun again, Im sure of it, because Kylo's TIE is gonna wreck and the cards we need are coming to give swarms what they need to shake off their addiction to crack.

Nayasyers within the forums tout lies about how the sky is falling, while quietly acquiescing to DISORDAH! This machine that you have built (the community) will soon destroy their precious meta, and soon, FFG will bring ORDAH! to the galaxy.

So have heart X wing community, things are getting better, everything is as the Emperor has foreseen. Whatever scum shenanigans, or rebel tricks shake up, we lose nothing but time.

may be too little too late for me. I can't be bothered to follow it and the xwing crowd has left the building in my area. On to playing better, less confusing games.

2 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

may be too little too late for me. I can't be bothered to follow it and the xwing crowd has left the building in my area. On to playing better, less confusing games.

I'm curious, what do you find confusing about X-wing?

16 minutes ago, DarthCognis said:

Im a filthy casual to the core.

Ditto. So, when I'm out here swatting gnats, I realize they are not actually affecting anything at all. If I just ignore them, all is well on the land of 300/12.

Sometimes, though, I just get in a mood, and spray a little bug killer.

6 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

may be too little too late for me. I can't be bothered to follow it and the xwing crowd has left the building in my area. On to playing better, less confusing games.

Just play casaul in your area with noobs until the community builds back up.

I have a nice X wing community in my store, but if I flew try hard lists on full capacity every week, my less experienced locals would get sick of losing to shenanigans and leave. My community would, 100% die if I went WAAC for even a few weeks. But as long as I nurture local players like tender flowers, more and more poeple keep buying core sets because of the fun experiences they had with a new group of friends.

This dish isn't nearly salty enough for the forums taste.

19 minutes ago, FlyingToaster said:

I'm curious, what do you find confusing about X-wing?

If x wing (being one of the simplest wargames out there) is confusing, I would love to see what is made of actual (proper?) wargames.

20 minutes ago, jagsba said:

This dish isn't nearly salty enough for the forums taste.

Yes, haha. But the game should be this; and when it's fun, it is.

20 minutes ago, jagsba said:

This dish isn't nearly salty enough for the forums taste.

45 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

may be too little too late for me. I can't be bothered to follow it and the xwing crowd has left the building in my area. On to playing better, less confusing games.

43 minutes ago, FlyingToaster said:

I'm curious, what do you find confusing about X-wing?

A lot actually. Though the core game seems to be and started out simple, but. There is a page in the FAQ just for a combat sequence, i.e. it was complex and not covered well enough in the rules that with all of the interactions which have come out they needed to add it to 'Frequently Asked Questions. That alone says a lot. There are so many nuances in the upgrades not the interactions are, for many, hard to follow. Perhaps I'm alone but I would have never gotten the Oicumm Double Tap without reading it several times and asking for a clarification. Today it is only a memorized move and nothing inherently obvious. Many upgrade cards have revised text, yet there are no upgrade only expansions. So it is possible that to play a card, you may need the rules, the card itself (in order to play) and review possibly multiple sections of the FAQ in case there are interactions with other cards. And don't forget the FAQ on the card itself. With all of these upgrades only the practiced few will often know the synergies that should be in a set of Auto-Includes, so not even building squads is far more complex that originally.

And we could go on. X-Wing used to be an easy game, but that was long ago.

13 minutes ago, Ken at Sunrise said:

A lot actually. Though the core game seems to be and started out simple, but. There is a page in the FAQ just for a combat sequence, i.e. it was complex and not covered well enough in the rules that with all of the interactions which have come out they needed to add it to 'Frequently Asked Questions. That alone says a lot. There are so many nuances in the upgrades not the interactions are, for many, hard to follow. Perhaps I'm alone but I would have never gotten the Oicumm Double Tap without reading it several times and asking for a clarification. Today it is only a memorized move and nothing inherently obvious. Many upgrade cards have revised text, yet there are no upgrade only expansions. So it is possible that to play a card, you may need the rules, the card itself (in order to play) and review possibly multiple sections of the FAQ in case there are interactions with other cards. And don't forget the FAQ on the card itself. With all of these upgrades only the practiced few will often know the synergies that should be in a set of Auto-Includes, so not even building squads is far more complex that originally.

And we could go on. X-Wing used to be an easy game, but that was long ago.

I get it man, I really do.

Sometimes, it gets to be too much for me. Sometime....I settle down with a friend, and we play X wings without the Integrated Astromechs, or Advanced without the X1 title. Sometimes, we just agree fly a bunch of generics with no upgrades.

This game is fun, if its getting to complicated, find a friend, and roll back to simpler times. I garentee that there is someone in your community who wants that, who isnt WAAC, invite a noob. Noobs dont even know all the crazy complicated stuff. Just play the core set, it will cleanse your tired soul.

28 minutes ago, Spider said:

If x wing (being one of the simplest wargames out there) is confusing, I would love to see what is made of actual (proper?) wargames.

I don't think "confusing" is quite the right word for it. There is a lot of what I call "book-keeping" in X-wing.

To be competitive (except under the filthiest of filthy casual situations) you need to be playing the action economy arms race. This means upgrades and interactions between the upgrades. So for starters you have to understand how all of your own upgrades and pilot abilities interact and when and in what order you need to perform the actions to properly obtain the benefits. Then you have to remember all of this for each of your ships while also figuring out where your ships need to be and how to get them there as some of the interactions might go away in certain circumstances.

You then also need to look at all of your opponent's upgrades and pilot abilities and quickly come to an understanding of how those will interact. You also need to trouble yourself with where your opponent's ships need to be and might be going.

You then have to remember to actually do these things at the correct times and in the correct order and to be cognizant of whether your opponent is also acting within the options of his list.

This is all entirely separate from also knowing where a ship can move by knowing the various maneuver dials.

So while it might not be literally "confusing" it is a jumble of information that can be hard to keep hold of let alone per-mutate into the various possibilities and probabilities that let you make smart decisions.

wut is this kylo tie you speak of? and wut are these upgrades coming to buff the swarm up from a crack addiction?

42 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Yes, haha. But the game should be this; and when it's fun, it is.

I completely agree. I'm not worried about the meta, FFG is going to make adjustments whether or not the forums are whinging. I'd much rather fly what's currently good and I enjoy, trust that the meta will shift like it always does, and soon other things will be good and fun. And there are a ton of fun legacy, casual, and hanger bay formats that can be run to keep things fresh.

The game isn't meant to be confusing, but now days the game has been bloated and added on to so much it looks like a document crafted by 40 sets of lawyers.

20+page FAQ that changes multiple times a year. I haven't played or had interest in a couple of months and the longer I stay out, the more of those " which rules are we playing by" discussions I'd have to have to get back in.

The card says one thing, the FAQ has changed the basic rules and how the cards interact with each other so many times that it gets confusing how to play the game. As one person said above, book-keeping. I used to enjoy how I could bring up a small case of ships, make a list in 2-3mins and play multiple games with the same or similar list. Now it's a freaking circus to build a list and play the game and you spend more time setting up ships, cards and cards that upgrade the other cards than you do actually flying ships.

44 minutes ago, Gibbilo said:

wut is this kylo tie you speak of? and wut are these upgrades coming to buff the swarm up from a crack addiction?

Just a friendly advise:

If this game is to complicated for you, do not try magic: the gathering or Warhammer 40k

(well we will see next Saturday if this is true for the 8th edition of WH40k but I expect it still to be complicated)

3 hours ago, DarthCognis said:

Im a filthy casual to the core.

Me too. Just played 200 point game TIE Fighters, Bombers, Interceptors and the Gozanti.

I agree, this game is getting better...... if you play Scum.

5 hours ago, Ken at Sunrise said:

A lot actually. Though the core game seems to be and started out simple, but. There is a page in the FAQ just for a combat sequence, i.e. it was complex and not covered well enough in the rules that with all of the interactions which have come out they needed to add it to 'Frequently Asked Questions. That alone says a lot. There are so many nuances in the upgrades not the interactions are, for many, hard to follow. Perhaps I'm alone but I would have never gotten the Oicumm Double Tap without reading it several times and asking for a clarification. Today it is only a memorized move and nothing inherently obvious. Many upgrade cards have revised text, yet there are no upgrade only expansions. So it is possible that to play a card, you may need the rules, the card itself (in order to play) and review possibly multiple sections of the FAQ in case there are interactions with other cards. And don't forget the FAQ on the card itself. With all of these upgrades only the practiced few will often know the synergies that should be in a set of Auto-Includes, so not even building squads is far more complex that originally.

And we could go on. X-Wing used to be an easy game, but that was long ago.

I agree that it feels very complicated now. I am not an active player at all but i try to read the forums and i keep up on the release schedule. Most of it is super meaningless to me though because i am not participating in store tournaments and don't even own one of every ship (hard to justify when i can only play every other month or so). My wife & I are big star wars fans though so every so often we go to the store, pick a few cool ships (mostly based on recognizability, like the Arc, Defender, interceptor aces, etc) and we try to play a game or two with the new purchase.

But even with only...20 unique ships, i have so many pilots and upgrade cards that it takes half an hour just to pick out a list and since i'm not buying a star viper for auto thrusters and only have a handful of push the limit cards and such, we're not able to overcome some of the shortcomings of the ships we do have. I love flying xwings, she loves flying interceptors. But I'm not buying 2 star vipers so she can run auto thrusters or whatever or a bunch of T-70s for integrated astromech to make my xwings a little more useful. The reality is though, there's no easy way to even know we should WANT those cards without spending time hear carefully reading through all the grousing. They just kind of feel unfun to fly sometimes.

I wills say the new FAQ is actually great though because it addressed several of our questions about how all these crazy cards worked together when we played monday instead of forcing us to look it up online and/or make an unsatisfactory house ruling.

7 hours ago, buckero0 said:

The game isn't meant to be confusing, but now days the game has been bloated and added on to so much it looks like a document crafted by 40 sets of lawyers.

20+page FAQ that changes multiple times a year. I haven't played or had interest in a couple of months and the longer I stay out, the more of those " which rules are we playing by" discussions I'd have to have to get back in.

T he card says one thing, the FAQ has changed the basic rules and how the cards interact with each other so many times that it gets confusing how to play the game. As one person said above, book-keeping. I used to enjoy how I could bring up a small case of ships, make a list in 2-3mins and play multiple games with the same or similar list. Now it's a freaking circus to build a list and play the game and you spend more time setting up ships, cards and cards that upgrade the other cards than you do actually flying ships.

This is definitely getting out of hand. I am to the point (and my brother, who is my main casual opponent, agrees), that we are going by the cards. No one is trying to Whisper Phantom or Manaroo the other, so we are not even sure whether we consider this stuff OP. I just told my brother tonight I'd like to try the pre-nerf Phantoms to see what the story is and he's fine with it.

3 hours ago, Cryix said:

But even with only...20 unique ships, i have so many pilots and upgrade cards that it takes half an hour just to pick out a list and since i'm not buying a star viper for auto thrusters and only have a handful of push the limit cards and such, we're not able to overcome some of the shortcomings of the ships we do have. I love flying xwings, she loves flying interceptors. But I'm not buying 2 star vipers so she can run auto thrusters or whatever or a bunch of T-70s f or integrated astromech to make my xwings a little more useful . The reality is though, there's no easy way to even know we should WANT those cards without spending time hear carefully reading through all the grousing. They just kind of feel unfun to fly sometimes.

If you just want to play casual, screw the cards. Grab the models you like, build a squad with an online builder, print and play. Now you have access to EVERY CARD in ANY NUMBER you want.

It will also massively speed up the building process over sorting thru cards, and most builders sort the printout by PS so the turn order just goes down the sheet.

In 3 years, I have NEVER used any of my cards. My brother does an odd combo of pilot cards for chit management but a printout for turn order and upgrade descriptions. We like Voidstate's builder:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/build#

9 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

If you just want to play casual, screw the cards. Grab the models you like, build a squad with an online builder, print and play. Now you have access to EVERY CARD in ANY NUMBER you want.

It will also massively speed up the building process over sorting thru cards, and most builders sort the printout by PS so the turn order just goes down the sheet.

In 3 years, I have NEVER used any of my cards. My brother does an odd combo of pilot cards for chit management but a printout for turn order and upgrade descriptions. We like Voidstate's builder:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/build#

O.o wow. thank you for this

I think once Wave 12 and the G4H comes out the game will be closer to faction equilibrium. Right now the force isn't balanced, but I am confident it will get better.

If only the Nerf Herders will just stop crying for more Nerfratas and another NerF.A.Q.!

8 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

I think once Wave 12 and the G4H comes out the game will be closer to faction equilibrium. Right now the force isn't balanced, but I am confident it will get better.

If only the Nerf Herders will just stop crying for more Nerfratas and another NerF.A.Q.!

The nerfings will continue until balance improves.

11 hours ago, Frimmel said:

I don't think "confusing" is quite the right word for it. There is a lot of what I call "book-keeping" in X-wing.

To be competitive (except under the filthiest of filthy casual situations) you need to be playing the action economy arms race. This means upgrades and interactions between the upgrades. So for starters you have to understand how all of your own upgrades and pilot abilities interact and when and in what order you need to perform the actions to properly obtain the benefits. Then you have to remember all of this for each of your ships while also figuring out where your ships need to be and how to get them there as some of the interactions might go away in certain circumstances.

You then also need to look at all of your opponent's upgrades and pilot abilities and quickly come to an understanding of how those will interact. You also need to trouble yourself with where your opponent's ships need to be and might be going.

You then have to remember to actually do these things at the correct times and in the correct order and to be cognizant of whether your opponent is also acting within the options of his list.

This is all entirely separate from also knowing where a ship can move by knowing the various maneuver dials.

So while it might not be literally "confusing" it is a jumble of information that can be hard to keep hold of let alone per-mutate into the various possibilities and probabilities that let you make smart decisions.

Knowing where ships can be is and always has been pretty much the core of the game, and is a big chunk of the actual skill.

Apart from that, this is YOUR game. Find someone who wants to play it the same way you do.

I don't play tournaments, I like to drink alcohol, unwind from stressful real life (which of part of why the current trend of WHINE is pissing me off) and push spaceships around the table making pew pew noises.

for me the game has never been better, but I almost never fly the same list twice in a row. That bores me, but do I complain about oppressive tourney rules stopping me chopping and changing?

no, because that is a style of play others love. Find the style you love, get some beers in and practice your pew pew noises.