So when they first added Titles to the game, they were meant to represent specific ships of a certain model from the lore that had unique modifications. Like the Falcon or the Slave-1.

Later on, they started introducing other variant models of ships as a way of "fixing" ships that weren't up to snuff or adding new utility. Like the Royal Guard TIE or the TIE Shuttle. These were usually drawn from the lore as lots of ships often had different variants in the lore.

With the new StarViper Mk. II, FFG is doing something new. They're basically making up a new variant that doesn't exist in the lore at all. And it's basically just version 2 of the ship, it's not even like a new unique ship or modification of the ship. It even stacks with the previous title available to the StarViper.

It's basically like FFG is saying "Sorry this ship sucked. Here's a 2nd pass at it."

So I'm wondering, is this going to be a repeated thing going forward? If a ship needs a buff but doesn't have any alternate versions in the lore FFG can exploit, are they just going to slap a Mk. II on there and call it a day? And if so? Is that fine? Or is it uncreative?

well, title is probably the easiest way to fix a ship since its wide open to what it changes without potentially kicking other upgrades out the window (looking at you bwings and awings...)

I fully expect this to happen a fair bit. Short from literally rereleasing the ship how else would they do it and not lock it into a very specific build?

well, those ships did suck when they came out, as did the tansarii point vet ship. All the scum ships sucked when they first came out.

I wonder why they released them like that to begin with, other than to sell more stuff as a "fix" later down the road.

I think it's fine. As long as SOMETHING happens to update things as we go I don't care how it's done.

I personally would prefer if it didn't take years to happen ,then get teased 6 months before being available....but that's just me.

They've kinda painted themselves into fixes like this, yeah. It's not ideal, for the reasons you both name and imply, but it's also not horrible, and there's not much choice.

(This is why X-Wing 2.0 needs to have the ships as Reference Cards, though. Not "Luke Skywalker," "Wedge Antilles," "Biggs Darklighter" and so on, overlaid onto the X-wing chassis, but just "Reference Card: T-65 X-Wing," which would reference the ship's rules and say who can fly it.)

StarViper Mk II was actually made up by FFG for something else entirely. And in Masks of the Pirate Queen it did, in fact, have some differences from the stock model besides being cheaper - but I guess FFG decided not to overcomplicate the ship with stuff it didn't necessarily need, just went for the lighter and cheaper build at the expense of slightly more exotic handling.

"Mk II" isn't an alien concept though, there were A-Wing MK IIs in the X-Wing novels, for instance, and the aforementioned T.I.E. Mk II.

16 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

So when they first added Titles to the game, they were meant to represent specific ships of a certain model from the lore that had unique modifications. Like the Falcon or the Slave-1.

Later on, they started introducing other variant models of ships as a way of "fixing" ships that weren't up to snuff or adding new utility. Like the Royal Guard TIE or the TIE Shuttle . These were usually drawn from the lore as lots of ships often had different variants in the lore.

With the new StarViper Mk. II, FFG is doing something new. They're basically making up a new variant that doesn't exist in the lore at all. And it's basically just version 2 of the ship, it's not even like a new unique ship or modification of the ship. It even stacks with the previous title available to the StarViper.

It's basically like FFG is saying "Sorry this ship sucked. Here's a 2nd pass at it."

So I'm wondering, is this going to be a repeated thing going forward? If a ship needs a buff but doesn't have any alternate versions in the lore FFG can exploit, are they just going to slap a Mk. II on there and call it a day? And if so? Is that fine? Or is it uncreative?

StarViper Mk 2 does exist (barely) in the lore. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/StarViper_M-2 . They didn't keep the fluff of it (for my starviper aces in the ccl I made mk2 title as well, but it rmeoved the torpedo slot and gave an extra shield in addition to one or two toher things), but it's at least something that was there.

12 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Well, it is true the Mk. II concept is not completely new to Star Wars. I mean, they did have Imperial-II and Victory-II class Star Destroyers back in the day as a way of just adding tougher versions of those ships to TIE Fighter.

12 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

I wonder why they released them like that to begin with, other than to sell more stuff as a "fix" later down the road.

I just wish they'd release said fixes in a separate pack.

I'd much rather buy a "TIE Defender II" expansion that just comes with 2 copies of the titles than these "aces" packs, or worse, an Epic ship, where I have to buy a ship I might not even want to get the upgrade for the one I do.

Just now, DarthEnderX said:

Well, it is true the Mk. II is not completely new to Star Wars. I mean, they did have Imperial-II and Victory-II class Star Destroyers back in the day as a way of just adding tougher versions of those ships to TIE Fighter.

Also incredibly common in Armada to have I and II series of the large ships. Somebody who actually plays Armada can probably discuss the finer points.

If I have a choice between having a true to lore ship that collects dust in my case or a "MK2" card that comes out of nowhere, but allows me to play it again, I'll take the latter option. The Starviper title is the first instance of a title that stacks with another... and I'm fine with that. Otherwise, it would be a "hey, we made a mistake, throw that old card in the dumpster and replace it with this one". I actually appretiate the effort into making a previously obselete card still usable.

That just has me wondering if, like 5 years from now, when the power creep continues far enough, are we going to end up getting "StarViper Mk. III" and "StarViper Mk. IV" titles keep up?

As long as there's an IG-2000 V2 title down the road, then I'm game

As posted above, the Zann Consurtium had Mk II StarVipers.

I've always looked at titles as not providing ships with unique modifications but actually providing unique mechanics to ships. This game wouldn't nearly be a interesting (in my opinion) if every ship just had the exact same mechanic. The title gives the possiblity for ships to gain an effect, ability or mechanic that is entirely unique to that ship and gives it a niché within the meta, or alternative build options.

Sometimes they come in the form of a similar idea: TIE/D, and BTL-A4: Both allow you to perform two attacks. The difference is the weapons involved (which can be a big factor) and changes the way you build a ship. Suddenly you need a canon on a TIE Defender, something that people when the ship was origionally out said was pointless. It also allows you to proc EPT effects onto it. BTL-A4 can allow you to have astromech effects (such as R3-A2) proc onto the attack and also changes how you fly and use the Y-Wing.

I actually like that the game gives us ships that have things that are truly unique to them. Such as the StarViper being able to perform the barrel rolls using banks rather than straights. I doubt we'll need a StarViper Mk.II because the ship already has "it's thing" but options are never a bad thing, such as the Syck that now can take secondary weapons and get a hull boost....OR gets a discount and improves its dial but carries a significant risk to its survivability. Both those require two different approaches, builds and even squads and I am all for options.

Besides, if we get all caught up on lore the StarViper was a completely custom prototype ship in the form of the Virago, but eventually found its way to mass production. This was done in the original game because designers wanted to use the ship and just came up with a reason that the Virago was mass produced.

7 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

That just has me wondering if, like 5 years from now, when the power creep continues far enough, are we going to end up getting "StarViper Mk. III" and "StarViper Mk. IV" titles keep up?

You think this game will still be around without a 2.0 by then? I figured ffg would have moved on to something else or rebooted it by then and I'd just be flying casual with the original waves with my friends.

One thing that is annoying is that they added the you may equip two titles text to it, rather a blanket rule for titles which would allow for a ship to equip one unique title and one non-unique title, so that the different models of ship/fixes/space for extra game text aren't affecting their ability to make unique titles in the future.

22 minutes ago, ID X T said:

One thing that is annoying is that they added the you may equip two titles text to it, rather a blanket rule for titles which would allow for a ship to equip one unique title and one non-unique title, so that the different models of ship/fixes/space for extra game text aren't affecting their ability to make unique titles in the future.

What?

22 hours ago, ID X T said:

One thing that is annoying is that they added the you may equip two titles text to it, rather a blanket rule for titles which would allow for a ship to equip one unique title and one non-unique title, so that the different models of ship/fixes/space for extra game text aren't affecting their ability to make unique titles in the future.

I can see what you are saying. However, at the same time they might design a unique title for a ship that gives it options, and a generic title that gives it options..but they don't want the two to go together. Admittedly the way around that is to say "You may not equip an additional title." I still think it's okay for them to address things on a case by case basis.

This is hardly a new thing. The titles we have that are fixes are:

• A-wing Test Pilot
• BTL-A4 Y-wing
• X1
• Tie /X7
• Tie /D
• Tie Shuttle
• Heavy Scyk (errata fix)
• Light Scyk

Add in the newest 2 and it's just 2 more in a long line of title fixes. I, for one, am happy they are trying to fix the old ones.

They are also starting to give out abilities in title cards so that any broad future title might not apply to them, which includes:

• Pivot Wing
• Adaptive Ailerons
• Special Ops Training
• Alliance Overhaul

I wish they had gone the chardaan refit route and used the torpedo slot for the fix. Could have called it 'black sun refit'

I think the StarViper needs the -3 and Torpedo slot more than the A-wing needed the -2 without Missile.

On 5/31/2017 at 1:08 PM, buckero0 said:

All the scum ships sucked when they first came out.

Tell that to the Jumpmaster haters

On 5/31/2017 at 8:56 PM, DarthEnderX said:

They're basically making up a new variant that doesn't exist in the lore at all.

Well, the thing is, they ARE the lore now! They're an official Star Wars® product, they're (albeit, I imagine, loosely) authorized to come up with whatever they come up with by Lucas and Disney. The Raider-class corvette is their original creation and has later been used in other Star Wars material. The Wookieepedia is featuring pilots FFG created, referencing flavor text from their cards!

(And now I want a Whisper movie starring Scarlett Johansson. I bet that would sell a lot of Phantoms). (And Saoirse Ronan as Echo).

If they intend to keep up the pace on releases like they have been I expect the titles to continue to be used for adding unique abilities to ships like the U-wing and Striker. There's only so many variations you can do purely with stats and dials and still keep things interesting.

As for using titles for fixes I honestly wonder how much longer this game can go without a 2.0 card pack. I've heard tale that FFG said it won't happen but it's kinda the natural cycle for physical games that constantly expand, it's not like a video game where you can patch and edit things at will. Eventually you need to remove the bloat.