These people talking about tracking try 3.5 d@d as a player boy thats tracking tokens help come on get real people.

You have a choice either you use them or you dont.

Bottom line is it fun in my view 100% amazing and thats what the players are telling me.

boggle said:

And there are those of us that use any other system than D&D because we hate that hack'n'slash crap.

More and more I'm coming to the conclusion that this system was designed to appeal to the D&D crowd and tempt them to more narrative gaming. Which is fine, but it means it has bits and pieces to it that I'm more iffy about - the progress tracker and especially the party tension meter.

Now, I can choose not to use those elements of the game. Fine. But if any cards/rules reference those elements specifically in future releases, I'm going to have to try and make up an equivalent effect.

Don't get me wrong - I still think this is quite a good system, and has advantages over 2nd edition as well as drawbacks. I just don't think it's the best game ever

What makes a good RPG?

Setting: I believe warhammer has the best fantasy setting ever made. No other fantasy RPG comes close to WFRP.

Rules: I really think everything about WFRP 3rd ed. adds to the role playing. It feels like a part of it, rather than a different layer. The dice are great for comming up with descriptions of what exactly happends when players try to do something. The way a mage channels and fills up power is very visual and I think it adds something rather than just being fiddling with tokens. It just looks nice when the wizard has over channeled and his challen card is full of tokens. The action cards are nice, because they also visualize what the player does. Wound cards, insanity cards, backlash cards etc. are all great. It's much nicer giving the player an actual wound in the form of a wound card instead of him just noting it on a piece of paper. Some people may see all these token, cards and counters as silly parts that could just as well be tracked on a piece of paper. But for me they add so much. It may be just as easy to track wounds on a piece of paper, but it isn't nearly as nice, cool and immersive. I see all these components they added to the box as very valuable in letting the players and GM visualize what's going on and immerse themselves in the gritty warhammer world.

Senarios/campaigns: Warhammer already has some of the best fantasy scenarios and campaigns ever made and since the conversion from 1st and 2nd ed. is very easy, there is already lots of useful material.

I've never seen a role playing games do things the way this new 3rd edition does. And I like it very much. While I may have a few issues with the success rate it's certainly no more problematic that the boring and flat percentage system of old. I can also see the potential for expansions. When I bought the adventurers toolkit I just added all the stuff to my game... I love the way that no matter how many expansions you have, there will be just four rule books. The rest is added to your collections seamlessly. It's truly a great system they have made. It may be a good idea financially for FFG as well, but that doesn't make it any less brilliant for me as a customer and GM.

Well Said.

I just can't get on board (pun intended) that using tokens on cards (I actually like the cards though) makes the game more immersive. I'm not sure how counting tokens off to cast a spell helps the player's suspension of disbelief. In my opinion, the more gamist issues the player has to interact with, the more it gets in the way of a quickly moving scene or story. I find ticking a number off with pen and paper allows the player to quickly bypass the gamist layer of the game and return quickly to the story itself.

All my opinion of course...

Shadowspawn, the immersive quality of the tokens is definitely a personal preference thing. Our caster whipped out his iPhone last night to track his power instead of placing tokens. That's how he rolls and it kept him involved, rather than feeling like he had to track tokens. I like the tokens, but one other player was a little put off with tracking recharges as tokens since they hid the text on the cards if placed on them and he sounds like he'll prefer the dice/ticks method.

I like the tokens because its a quick visual impression of what's going on: few tokens = low (damage/recharge/power/etc), many tokens = high (whatever).

Good point. I guess myself and my group are really old fashioned. I recoil in terror when someone dares bring out a cell phone at my gaming table.

Shadowspawn said:

I recoil in terror when someone dares bring out a cell phone at my gaming table.

You'd hate my group. Many of us are on-call for our jobs, so we all have our cell phones out. I do, however, judge how well I'm doing by how often people check said phones.