I have got to say this and say this loud "this is the best system ever"

I have played ever system out there and this is bar none the very best.

The most exciting thing is this is just the start.

The mechanics empower you as a story teller i love the fact you role the dice open we have for ages but in this system it creates story...

Do you agree is it your favorite or are you unhappy and why.

I very much love the system and how it empowers the GM and the players to make collaborative stories, rather than the games of glorified chess that I've been stuck playing the last few years.

The system has a few areas which probably need some clarification, but overall the essence of the game is simply amazing. While letter grades are a bit cliche, I'd give the game concept an A+, and the execution (editing, layout, materials present, etc.) an A-.

I eagerly await more resources, more monsters, more magic, more of everything.

While that might sound like a complaint, it isn't. If the game sucked, I wouldn't care if anything else came out.

For me, i'm waiting to make more plays to check how good is this system.

but the best system is diceless, for sure !

It's way up there. I can't emphatically say it's the best system ever, but it's *very* good at doing a lot of things that I like. The dice pool mechanic is amazing and very nicely integrated with characters/careers/cards/critters/criticals (basically everything beginning with the letter "c"). It's absolutely a blast. Maybe my favorite thing is that every roll is interesting to everyone at the table (whether it's their turn or not) because of they way the dice help rather than hinder storytelling. That's an amazing achievement.

I'd rather have more careers/opponents/options, and I'm partial to a slighly different spin to my abstract combat, but the heart of this system is absolutely in the right place. It has rapidly become one of my favorites and it's only been out for a heartbeat. I'm excited to see what's next.

boggle said:

I have owned many of the RPG systems out there - still have my D&D white box with supplements and the original Warhammer box. I have dabbled with a few. This is the first that has ever got me seriously playing - so it is my favorite by far. Not sure if it is the 'best', but it is the perfect fit for my players and I. Eagerly awaiting further expansions.

I wouldn't say it was the best ever (if any game gets that for me, it's L5R), but it's certainly well produced and entertaining

I love the system so much I just had to buy 5 packs of dice.

boggle said:

In my 20+ years of roleplaying I keep asking myself these questions in every one of my warhammer sessions. I've played tons of systems, but this one brings constant enjoyment everytime I play. It seems to hit just the right spot in what I wanted in an RPG. The only thing that's detracted from it is the sillyness of the removal of fan made content.

I haven't played it yet, so I can't possibly say if it's the best system yet, but I do like the new approach. I've played lots of different systems (including, but not limited to: GURPS, CORPS, Shadowrun, Earthdawn, Fudge, CoC, Paranoia, Serenity, various small Forge-games, and even some D&D), and I've come to the conclusion that while a lot of games seem nice at first, in practice they often suck.

D&D is way too restrictive in any edition, and especially so in D&D4 (D&D3 was the least restrictive, but completely unbalanced in every possible way), GURPS has tons and tons of cool stuff, but you've got so many options that you're always forgetting something and looking stuff up in the books. Cool books, though. Very well researched source books. But it's just a bit too tedious to actually play. Fudge and the Forge games are light and simple, but don't give me the hand holds I need. The Forge games in particular revolve entirely around some cool little mechanic, but completely lack any real RPG to make use of it. The original WFRP had the coolest setting ever, but a confusing system with gaping holes in it, and never quite did what it was supposed to do.

So all in all, I'm very open to the possibility that WFRP3 might be the best system ever. It seems lighter than most other systems out there, but without throwing you in the deep end with no idea what's going on, nor by turning it into a skirmish game with RPGish elements (like D&D4). I hope my impression is correct.

Yes it's the best system I have played in my 20 years of RPG, but one particular thing is broken in the system from my troupes point of view.

The success rate.

For a new player with 5 strenght (easy for a dwarf), 1 melee, specialization and attacking a monster with a defence of 2, the chance of success is 87% with two conservative dice. The chance for 3 successes is 49%. If the npc uses advanced parry the success rate is only lowered to 73% and 34%. If the npc fires off advanced block, parry and dodge against the same attack the chance for success is still 45% and 15%.

This is for a newly created player. Someone with 7 strenght (4 green dice), 3 melee, specialization, 2 fortune dice in strenght against a monster with defence 2, the chance for success is 89% and 66% against a npc using andvanced dodge, parry and block against the same attack.

That system is way off and it bogs down to doing maximum damage almost with every single attack, where the game becomes a boring game of attrition. Active defence is almost pointless, bonusses from various cards, fortune etc. is all pointless because under normal circumstances the chance for 3+ successes is so great that there is no need for anything but the basic dice pool.

So when the players become experienced you'll see constant maximum damage, no missing, no point in defending or using special bonus cards. Even for new players the system seems broken, but for experienced players it's so bad that we would not even bother rolling the huge dice pools.

So we made house rules for adding a passive defence to players and NPC that give a much better result and at the same time we have made rules for better variance in damage by allowing players to pick success lines multiple times.

Gallows said:

The most you could ever have is 6 in a characteristic. So, 6 strength.

Scelous said:

Nope, it's 10 : Characteristics goes from 1 to 10, except during character creation where "no single characteristic can begin higher than fve" (rulebook p.28).

Check the Faq, p3, under characteristic advancement : Since there are only ten advancement lines on the General Career Advances portion of the advancement worksheet, a primary characteristic cannot be increased beyond 10.

Gallows said:

I think what you say may not quite be right for what its worth you might hit however how much damage gets through , timing your defence is critical.

What stance you are in and the tactics you employ.

And you are forgetting about delays ect that do crop up.

What about guarded position and the monster (ace) ect that the dm can use.

Easy to just look at the numbers im not seeing everyone hit nearly all the time so maybe its playing styles ect.

But you have house ruled and seem to be making it work for your group so thats good.

I remember playing 1st edition with high level PCs that could kill Greater Daemons in one or two rounds of combat while taking minimal damage.

So, yeah, I think that this has always been a problem, IMO.

I'm right up there.

for me the favorite parts about this system are how magic works and fatigue/stress. I love that magic is risky and can exhaust you and I love the different ways that you can challenge your players.

@ gallows: the seond chracter you are refering to (7 str) is at least rank 3, which means around 30 sessions of play. I think at that time they will have expanded on the high powered action cards and monsters. I have a strong feeling they will release even better active defences in time. and don't forget to add in factors like being outnumbered etc.

Lucas your the man.

Well said indeed well played.

Necrozius said:

Warhammer always has been deadly, damage speaking. You can be killed in one or two strike. And that's what we like... That's what motivate our tactics in a different way compared to D&D and OGL.

Yet it seems we didn't hit as often...

You know what I miss in this 3rd edition ? criticals and death by RAW... Criticals Hits are rare and I've not seen any pure death because critical wounds = To. We all get unconscious before, because we have yet lost all our Wound Threshold.

I guess i depends on what kind of creaturs your players are up against. in my game criticals are far too common,especially since there is no healer.

beastmen for instance have an easy time making crits. only 2 successes.

Lucas Adorn said:

you may be right that new action cards will be released with better defence. But still the fact that the system does not scale both defence and offence worries me. You get better at hitting someone, but you keep sucking at defending. Basically that's what I find to be wrong, no matter what numbers we put in there.

I've been playing with the same group for 20+ years mostly Rolemaster and only WFRP3 can be compared with this many options and depth. It's like Rolemaster but all the tables are right in front of you (in cards)! A dream come true.

We only had one session and since then the playerskeep calling me everyday to play again. The players are really excited and keep making fake battles with each other just to test the system and their characters. This game is fun even without a story! Can't wait for it to actually develop into a campaign.

I can't say much about any broken defence rules from lack of experience but I can tell that players don't hit all the time. In the first session one of the players hit only once! (a wardancer) Don't forget that characters can have specialization in parry and that seem to aid them also. Besides - if the characters hit a lot, that means that monsters can hit a lot as well great! Combat is bad don't rush into one . Again, it reminds me of Rolemater where every combat was a big deal and you can't necesseraly walk out of it.

They did so many things right. Actually, my only complaint, or better yet bewilderment, is that the map of Eye for an Eye is incomplete. But I can forgive that. Some rules can be explained better, but hey, that's what these forums are for .

So YES, I'm beginning to think that this might be, probably is, the best beer, err system, in the world.

Roy.

Vallenwood said:

Haven't had a chance to actually play the game yet. Read through it. Looks cool. Couldn't possibly be better than beer.

As some who likes beer, and role-playing games, I'd say that Warhammer 3rd Edition comes close to a good beer. I've been gaming for over 25 years and have played or owned just about every major system that's been produced. I have to say that I'm in love with this system. It's simple, fast, and exciting. My group loves it. I rarely get this excited about new games but the system is what drew me into the Warhammer world (I'd played the Fantasy Battles quite a bit but never got into the RPG aspect of it). Now I'm spending all my free time reading Warhammer stuff and trying to immerse myself in this fantastic system and world.

Mmmmm... Beer...

Anyway, don't you think it's interesting that most gamers here seem to have around 2 decades of RPG experience? I think that says a lot about the game.

I'll start another thread for average age and RPG experience. A sort of poll. Do these forums have built in polls? I think that could even help FFG map their audience and perhaps will influence the content of future supplements.

I can tell you that for me, after reading hundreds (probably thousands) of RPG books, the concise WHRP3 material is just about perfect in length and content. Both in world content and rules. For instance, how equipment and encumbrance is handled beautiful. No endless tables of prices and useless items. For us, with enough roleplaying experience, this is exactly what we needed. And that's just one example.

Vallenwood said:

I think many systems cater to having tons of crunch. One of the things I like about this game is not having all that crunch. I really don't want my characters concerned with getting the golden arm bracers of striking plenty and the feat that allows me to stack that with the leg warmers of the 80s. I want my characters in the moment, playing the story, for the story, and not as a tool for constant character building.

I agree wholeheartedly.

The other day I read a preview off an RPG book, which mentioned among others things to promote it, so and so many pages of new and extra rules. WOW!!

why? why do I need 400 pages of rules that tells me how much candles cost or what happens if a player trips over a branch rather than a spoon (highly exaggerated but you get the point). In the end most people don't use half the rules or if they do I can only imagine how long it must take to complete each encounter.