What if the game was just a little bit like 40k? Yes, that sounds horrible on the surface. I, like many here, am a 40k survivor. With the sheer amount of stuff out there for X-Wing now, I think there's one thing we could borrow from that wallet eating, rules spewing monster.

I would suggest a V2 rulebook. We've had a lot of v2 suggestions on this forum, but I'm not suggesting we go and rewrite the game. Keep the basics. The system is a good one, no reason to reinvent the wheel. With the amount of content out now, however, we could do with something that re balances the game. What I'm suggesting is a rulebook/codex in one. Firstly, as stated, it would give designers a chance to re balance old ships to calibrate them to the current state, or new, state of play. Secondly, we could cut down on proxying and more people could do tournaments. Getting started, I loved the card system. All your rules were right there in front of you. No rummaging through a book. Now, however, instead I might have to buy a ship I'd never fly for the sake of an upgrade that comes with it (lookin' at you autothrusters . . . and lightweight frames). I use 'yet another squad builder' to print out proxy lists for casual stuff already, but it would be nice to bring those lists to a tournament.

Maybe it's a terrible idea, but I think it could be a good way to make a lot of sweeping changes people are looking for (nerf U-Boat, fix the X-Wing, make old 2 dice ships relevant, bring back the HWK 2-90 holy **** that's right that ship is in this game you guys, the list goes on). Maybe there's even a way to marry it with the current card system.

Thoughts? Ideas? Legitimate reasons this wouldn't work? Biting personal remarks regarding my character?

No

3 minutes ago, demon3o5z said:

What if the game was just a little bit like 40k? Yes, that sounds horrible on the surface. I, like many here, am a 40k survivor. With the sheer amount of stuff out there for X-Wing now, I think there's one thing we could borrow from that wallet eating, rules spewing monster.

I would suggest a V2 rulebook. We've had a lot of v2 suggestions on this forum, but I'm not suggesting we go and rewrite the game. Keep the basics. The system is a good one, no reason to reinvent the wheel. With the amount of content out now, however, we could do with something that re balances the game. What I'm suggesting is a rulebook/codex in one. Firstly, as stated, it would give designers a chance to re balance old ships to calibrate them to the current state, or new, state of play. Secondly, we could cut down on proxying and more people could do tournaments. Getting started, I loved the card system. All your rules were right there in front of you. No rummaging through a book. Now, however, instead I might have to buy a ship I'd never fly for the sake of an upgrade that comes with it (lookin' at you autothrusters . . . and lightweight frames). I use 'yet another squad builder' to print out proxy lists for casual stuff already, but it would be nice to bring those lists to a tournament.

Maybe it's a terrible idea, but I think it could be a good way to make a lot of sweeping changes people are looking for (nerf U-Boat, fix the X-Wing, make old 2 dice ships relevant, bring back the HWK 2-90 holy **** that's right that ship is in this game you guys, the list goes on). Maybe there's even a way to marry it with the current card system.

Thoughts? Ideas? Legitimate reasons this wouldn't work? Biting personal remarks regarding my character?

It probably would be less of a 2.0 and more of 1.0+Reference card text added into the rules (this is what ion tokens do, how to drop a bomb, what the new actions do, etc) Personally I feel it would be hard to make one big pass on tuning because everything is hodge-podged in and you can't fix the U-Boat with a rules change without nerfing the outrider(large based barrel roll) or other primary turrets (or all turrets) because the issue is mostly the cost, dial and upgrade combos which are ship specific

A potential fix could be making evade tokens work like target locks, instead of adding 1 result let them reroll your green dice, it potentially makes green dice more forgiving and have it be easier to shrug off the Alpha Strikes from Uboats

That system does not even work well in 40k. The entire game is as unbalanced as possible. Just try to play Orks against Eldars.

Edit: 40k has many factions, so much harder to balance it, though.

40k has rule books that make no sense and are terrible with updates that break prior updates that fixed problems. After spending 15 plus years within that world I say keep 40k far away.

I don't know exactly how the game could be anything like 40k. The flight-path movement system provides plenty of hidden information and also the small model count, the constant movement of models, the Wave release business model over the book and model line, I don't see any comparison to 40K other than they are both tabletop miniatures games.

If I were to compare a FFG table top game to 40K that would be Dust Tactics, If I were to take a FFG Star Wars miniatures game to 40K that would be Star Wars Armada because of turn limits, movement styles that are like 40K an objectives. I would even consider it closer to 40K than Runewars because Runewars uses more of that flight path and dial system than Armada. In a way Armada is more like an inverse of 40K with the ships/vehicles being the focus and the squadrons/infantry being the support, also it takes place in space instead of on a planet/spacestation/ect.

Now could some elements from 40k be added into X-wing? Well maybe. Depends on what you are looking for but if it were to be of any compatibility to X-wing you can't just take something from 40k and port it over. For example take this alternative format I came up with for some limited faction mixing.

One of the first criticisms that comes up is faction mixing was what ruined 40k. Now I will admit I am not a fan of the 40k Allies table (Space Marines battle brothers with TAU give me a break). Actually I think 40k would have done better with a primary faction system of Imperial, Chaos and Xeno but then Xeno would get a little too weird. But on to X-wing this faction mixing is not a direct copy of the 40k table. For one not only is it doesn't allow for Rebel and Imperial faction mixing but it also changes the allegiance of the scum mercenaries somewhat (They still can't take rebel only or imperial only upgrades unless it has the scum only included, and most scum only upgrades are prohibited for them as well.). So yeah, there are some gaming concepts that 40k uses that could be applied to X-wing but really there isn't anything from 40k that could be useful for X-wing . The games are too far apart in both theme and mechanics.

40k will also run you about 15k to get everything for an army to play all options which does not include every 7 years an army refresh takes place and if you want a couple different options for spaces marines good that's another 5-10k seeing for torny play you have to have the correct guns and equip on each person then add cost to paint and time spend putting together and your close to another 5-10k, (including forge world) I think for 12 of each small 6 of each large and 2 of each epic we are about 10k, which includes everything you can run for all options no painting or putting together.

x-Wing with its 10 page rule book and maybe 10 pages of FAQ is light years ahead of 40k I want nothing about it to come into x-Wing other then it being a table top game.

Just for clarification, I'm not suggesting huge rule overhauls. I'm thinking stuff like point cost fixes, some pilot ability tweaks, then put that all in one book with all our upgrade options. I'll admit, their release model would make this difficult. One alternative could be a digital rulebook that gets updated every year, or with the release of a new wave? There's a couple miniatures games out there where the rules are free online and all you pay for are miniatures.

18 minutes ago, Cubanboy said:

40k has rule books that make no sense and are terrible with updates that break prior updates that fixed problems. After spending 15 plus years within that world I say keep 40k far away.

No arguments from me here.

I'd like to see FFG do want other companies have done, fix what needs to be fix (i.e. cards, mod, titles, upgrades, etc.) and make them a free PDF to download know it doesn't fix all the problems but it would be a nice start...

37 minutes ago, Ghostrider58 said:

I'd like to see FFG do want other companies have done, fix what needs to be fix (i.e. cards, mod, titles, upgrades, etc.) and make them a free PDF to download know it doesn't fix all the problems but it would be a nice start...

This is actually a much more elegant solution than mine. I'd even go so far as a library of free, tournament legal, PDF cards for upgrades and pilots. That way, an update happens and you can just download and print the stuff you use. I mean, it's not like we're going to stop buying models. Can't play without the toys, and half of them I buy just for the 'look at this cool toy!' factor.

I would much prefer an errata card pack (with a few changed dials thrown in for good measure). One single cost to "fix/buff/nerf" anything that requires it.

It would essentially do the same as what you're suggesting here, but this statement would get to remain true:

14 hours ago, demon3o5z said:

Getting started, I loved the card system. All your rules were right there in front of you. No rummaging through a book.

14 hours ago, demon3o5z said:

What if the game was just a little bit like 40k? Yes, that sounds horrible on the surface. I, like many here, am a 40k survivor...

I fled to X-Wing to get away from the money-devouring Games Workshop machine. The last thing I ant to do is go back to those dark, depressing days...

Every once in a while such a topic comes out. Which is ok, but as wise veterans of this forum noticed you should keep in mind that when you buy an expansion you are buying cards and ship comes as an addition, not the other way around as we have the impression. Thus, I advice you not to expect that ffg will give you a printout of cards, as it most likely will never happen.

5 hours ago, Jagos said:

Every once in a while such a topic comes out. Which is ok, but as wise veterans of this forum noticed you should keep in mind that when you buy an expansion you are buying cards and ship comes as an addition, not the other way around as we have the impression. Thus, I advice you not to expect that ffg will give you a printout of cards, as it most likely will never happen.

Oh I don't expect it to happen, but it's fun to dream.

9 hours ago, Stevey86 said:

I would much prefer an errata card pack (with a few changed dials thrown in for good measure). One single cost to "fix/buff/nerf" anything that requires it.

This is another great idea.

On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 6:39 AM, Stevey86 said:

I would much prefer an errata card pack (with a few changed dials thrown in for good measure). One single cost to "fix/buff/nerf" anything that requires it.

It would essentially do the same as what you're suggesting here, but this statement would get to remain true:

Card packs don't sell as well and would take longer to get to the players, the great thing about PDF files (and yes PP has already done with wm/hordes Cards) they can be updated on a regular bias, no waiting several months to do new packs that may get delayed in shipment. You have a couple of folks in house do this, they take the current card, make the changes drop it into the PDF, as new cards come out with new expansions drop them in case they need cleaning up, nefing, adjusting etc.

I worked for FASA back in the day on BTech and when it came time to doing a new TM or fluff book we stated anywhere from 24-36 months in advance to make sure we would have enough time to playtest check everything etc. Plus we had to wait on the art work and mini prototypes as well which can add more time Changed dials would only slow the time it would take to get the card packs out even more... I see more companies going to PDF files for cards, I hope FFG will do that.