Cheezy said:

I recognize this too. (And sorry if this is a repeat, but i caught this before i made it past the first page. ) I recall seeing this line in the Warhammer 40,000 2nd Edition Rulebook, and or Codex Imperialis, and i wouldn't be surprised if they reused it in various other Army books since. It had nothing whatsoever to do with any Haarlock from back in the 2nd edition. If i can recall that page was somewhere around the Chaos section.

Other good quotes from those books, "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded", or "Hatred is the emperor's greatest gift to humanity"

The Laughing God said:

Have a read, great stuff:

http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/8492/pg8492.html

It's a horror story that was one of the major inspirations for Lovecraft. While not really that scary, the imagery is pretty great. It's often used by the DH writers because it's comparable in tone to Lovecraft, while also being less famous and not having that peculiar language that used improperly makes you sound like a pretentious schoolgirl.

While we're on the topic of visits to the watch fortress, it should be noted that Mordecai Haarlock "visits" the Erioch Watch Fortress in 266.M36 for a period of three days ( Know No Fear , page 5). What significance this has to the entire Haarlock legacy is not clear to me, however, other than maybe giving Noesis a reason to pay a visit over five millenia later.

-Kirov

Idaan said:

Ok went through the texts a bit .. I am wondering how much of this King in Yellow is relevant to the Haarlock Legacy. Maybe they just took the names and imagery because it sounds and feels suitably mysterious and threatening. Or maybe the writers of the Legacy DID take a notion, premise or idea from the King in Yellow and made it highly relevant to things Haarlockian. Then we must know .. which idea is that?

The things that struck me:
- The King in Yellow seems like an archetypical bad book .. a heretic, forbidden text that enthralls, seduces, corrupts. This notion is not just Haarlockian but a staple in all of Dark Heresy.
- the Hyades are mentioned, which ofcourse can be found back in Haarlock connection in the Hyades Locks and thus the Seven Devils, the portals of sleep and their key etc
- the Pallid Mask -> there is a section in the texts on that Gutenberg site where some shouts 'he wears no mask!'. This same quotation is repeated in a bit of fluff in one of the Dark Heresy books, don't know which one, as a madman's fevered ranting: "he wears no mask ... he wears no mask ... he wears no mask'.

But what to make of all of that ....

The Laughing God said:

Well, the King in Yellow also inspired the King of Rag and Tatters that keeps appearing throughout some DH fluff texts if I remember correctly. Is he maybe even one of the Seven Devils? Have to check the list of devils in DotDG (or was it in RH?) when I am at home tonight...

Most likely he is Luthor: The Lord of Misrule of Malfi is also called the King of Rags and Tatters, although I can't recall where exactly I read that. Probably in the Menagerie section of Disciples.

I think that most of the things relating to the King in Yellow are homages and "easter eggs". Things like the silver key at the auction, the name themes and the Hyades Locks are all nods to the text.

But I think the plot itself is uniquely their own, and deliberately designed so that a GM can their own "whatever" into it. Like I said earlier, I do think that makes certain aspects of their plot and clues so weak as to be almost meaningless. Its all well and good to have various NPCs or texts say mysterious and doomladen statements filled with dark portents and ominous imagery...but if its all so general that the PCs have little connection to it, it loses a lot of the impact. Of course that's easy for me to say since from my perspective I have all 3 of the Haarlock books and I'm editing heavily from the House of Dust and Ashes and onward, based on the changes I find suitable.

But although I don't think we can make any assumptions about the plot exactly, I do think we can spot these little things that connect certain events together. The connection between Cassilda Cognos and Camilla Noesis is definitely one of those examples. Of course it doesn't answer any questions about why she visited Erioch or what her connection (if any) is to the Haarlocks. Since I'm planning on sending my players to Jericho in the near future as a part of my campaign, I might work it into my campaign somehow...but to what purpose? I'm not fond of putting too many red herrings into my plots, so I'd prefer it to actually have some relevance.

More food for thought =).

Okay I am finally ready to the Haarlock's Legacy into my ongoing campaign, so I've reread all adventures, made notes, and would like to share new insights and questions with you guys Heavy spoilers ahead!

1) what I only fully realized just now, though it has been expressed in this thread, is that the Widower in Tattered Fates does not summon the real Black Sun. It is 'stolen light', a 'shadow' or 'echo', or an 'apparition' of the real Tyrant Star, sufficient to cause chaos and insanity and kill himself in the process (which is his goal, to end his servitude). This must be the light stolen at Tanis, the site of the first (?) appearance of the Tyrant Star. Also note that in Dead Stars the Hag explains that at Tanis the Haarlock bloodline did something essential, 'find the means' or so, or capture the 'memory of the radiance' of the Tyrant Star to be used in their devices like the Steel Clock.

2) there is some strange material which Haarlock used to construct the Keystone from the Steel Clock, the posts of the Soul Trap, some talismans needed to find your way around Mara's tunnels, and the machine in the Blind Tesseract. Probably also the Gilded Widow and the Iron Daughter?

3) in Tattered Fates , it is stated a couple of times that the scion of Haarlock can, if his will is sufficiently strong, control the Widower that seeks him out. Yet nowhere is it made explicit how he or she could perform such a feat!

4) in Dead Stars on p7 it is hinted that Haarlock may have travelled to or THROUGH the Tyrant Star. The latter gives weight to the theories expressed here that the Tyrant Star might be a gateway to another reality and/or time. On p46 it says he passed from the FUTURE into the Tyrant Star.

5) what is the vortex symbol found in the Slaugth-dominated wasteland on Dead Stars p50 in the possible future?

6) the whole thing about the first and the last Haarlock is only ever being expressed in Tattered Fates by the Widower, I believe, and never repeated. I feel there is no mystery to solve here, nothing like the last Haarlock (Erasmus) being possessed by the first (Solomon or Mordecai) or the two having become one and the same through time manipulation and such.

7) there is however the small matter of one of the devils of Calyx being called the Night Traveller, kin-slayer and coming back from where none have come back before (Bray Lexicon, Radical's Handbook ). This almost surely points at Erasmus Haarlock .. yet the events of the Legacy and his actual coming back take place thousands of years after it was written, so either the Devil did not exist yet when it was described, or it already did even as the Traveller still had to return to become the devil, which suggests time distortion too.

8) the most interesting leads seem buried in those two alternative futures hinted at in Dead Stars:

a) If Haarlock is stopped, the sector may fall to the Slaugth. A big mystery here is what is in the canister being held by the future form of the acolytes in the boxed text on p51. It must be important cause it is warded very strongly. Also it is hinted that the acolytes who stopped Haarlock were all wrong, and that only know they understand. Maybe stopping Haarlock was not such a good idea. The name 'Gallowglass' is mentioned. What the hell does this all mean?

b) If Haarlock is allowed to return, other things may happen. The alternative future being shown has Fihad Constantine of Damned Cities , once a trustworthy ally, in thrall to some new, unknown dark force. He rants about 'the dead stars circling at our will' and 'Haarlock did not win'. There is also a lot of anti-imperial graffiti and statues of saints being defaced, suggesting that Haarlock may bring about strong resistance against the Imperium. However, the Stiles characters talks about how 'they'' were stopped on Malfi by Throne agents, but here on Sinophia not even Haarlock will stop them, suggesting that this new dark force is not in liege with Haarlock. Who is this dark force?

9) more about anti-Imperium sentiments: when the auction begins in House of Dust and Ash , praise is being heaped on someone who 'holds the worlds in the palm of his hand'. It is unsure whether the Emperor, or Haarlock is being addressed! Also I remember , but I don't know where exactly, some writings by Haarlock in which Imperial hymns and slogans were perverted in a subtle, sardonical manner. Does anyone know where that was written? It suggests that Haarlock may hold a mocking respect of the Emperor at best.

10) finally, what are the dead stars? Fihad rants about 'the dead stars circling at our will', Haarlock's talismans were 'fragments of the dead stars he paid for in the blood of thousands' (Nostromo says), servitors chant 'the Traveller will return and the stars shall die', stars are missing from the Sinophia night sky in the future when Haarlock is allowed to return ... and the Tyrant Star has at one point also been called a dead star, I believe. It seems Haarlock will bring about the dead stars, after which the last book in the Legacy trilogy is also named. But how? and why?

Something tells me I will not sleep easy tonight

Nice recap, thanks for that!

1) Well, I always assumed it ist he Tyrant Star and most probably will depict it that way. I have to reread it tonight. The terms ‘stolen light’, ‘shadow’ etc. of the Tyrant Star does not sound as if it is not the ‘real one’ if you ask me though. ‘Find the means’ and ‘capture the memory’ sounds to me as describing that Haarlock somehow acquired some ‘stuff’ or ‘technology’ from the Tyrant Star to use for his own good (or bad for that matter…) (i.e. Keystone of the Steel Clock, Gilded Widow etc.).

2) See above.

3) I was wondering too. Maybe an oversight by the developers. I am sure our groups scion will try the feat anyway. Oh dear…

4) Most probably a ‘gate’ to the warp or a vessel (sort of ‘banished’ C’Tan in my theory) traversing the borders of reality and the warp from time to time.

5) I do not remember such a sign. Have to check when at home tonight.

6) I am not sure either and have no theory. But I doubt it has anything to do with Solomon/Mordecai. In fact I believe ‘first’ could mean first in terms of ‘first and foremost’ or ‘principal’ and not in the sense of being first chronologically. I am not a native speaker though and could be horribly wrong…

7) Either that or the Bray Lexicon was written by some sort of seer or diviner as some sort of prognostication (like good old Nostradamus…).

8) a) Gallowglass is an agri-world in the Mafian Subsector. b) Maybe the reappearance of Haarlock from/with the Tyrant Star tore such a hole in the fabric of reality that a major daemonic incursion is at hand (i.e. dark force) like the Eye of Terror and the Maelstrom (only smaller).

9) I think it is just that the servants of Haarlock throughout the years changed some hymns and slogans that they became ambiguously enough so that they render homage more to Haarlock than the Emperor without being too eye-catching.

10) If the Traveller is a C’tan as in my theory, it is no surprise 'the Traveller will return and the stars shall die' as C’Tan normally consume stars for lunch…

Good night!

Luthor Harkon said:

Let me know what you think of it after rereading Tattered Fates. I am sure it conveys the impression that it was not the actual Tyrant Star that appeared, but that the Steel Clock 'merely' has to power to manifest its stolen light or radiance, like a lingering effect of the real thing.

Btw in the alternate future with preacher Stiles, he says (Dead Stars) that the dark force now governing Sinophia has branded him on the cheek with their mark, but he burnt it off. I keep thinking this might have been the bird's claw mark that signifies the coming of the Tyrant Star.

Also, the dark force (by lack of a better name) has augmented and cyber-fitted Dusk Stalkers into Twilight Stalkers and set them loose on Sinophia. This may hint at a link with Dusk ... and perhaps even the Servants of Twilight?

The Laughing God said:

Well, I reread it and for me it is crystal clear that it is the Tyrant Star that appeared above Quaddis. It is stated that way in regard to the gain of possible Corruption/Insanity Points for looking directly at the Tyrant Star.

Regarding the cheek: Maybe the eight pointed star of Chaos, maybe the vortex symbol you mentioned or indeed the bird's claw mark (for whatever it stands...).

Regarding 'the dark force': I have no idea so far. A link to Dusk is a link to the Dusk Hag if you ask me though...

I gather that the Tyrant Star at Quaddis is indeed the definitive Komus. A summoned Komus rather than a 'naturally occurring' instance, perhaps, but the Komus regardless. (More potent when stars are right, perhaps?)

I favour LordLucan's preferred theory that the Slaugth and the Yu'vath are the critical outcomes here, one the legacy of the C'tan, the other the legacy of the Old Ones in the region.

But, don't confuse that. It doesn't mean they're in thrall to them either. Or at least I don't think they are. Legacy yes, servants...no. No, I don't think so.

As I see it, the Yu'vath are the 'mysterious dark force' which threatens Haarlock in the Fihad-verse.

In the Blasted Cities universe it's patently clear that the Slaugth run rampant if Haarlock's defeated. I think the implication is then that Haarlock returning is indeed one of the Hyades folks, the Traveller. I'm also a fan of the conjecture that the Dusk Hag is Mord'a'gon, though I think I'll need to peruse "Into the Abyss" to confirm/refute that.

But the critical mystery, in my mind, remains as follows:
- The Hyades Locks, the Yu'vath, the Slaugth, the Servants of Twilight, the Harrowing and the Seven Devils...
- What is the nature of the relationships between the above?
- How can this be played out via repercussions on the end of the Haarlock Legacy?

Regarding the ending of the legacy and the next step, our group's been pretty focussed on the 'Internal Inquisition War' which lets the Slaugth really find their footing, mainly because they stopped Haarlock and my players were pretty weirded out by the 'Blasted City' scene. Especially the one who was 'the future acolyte' in the scenario, the one who'd committed suicide by Soul-Killering himself.

I don't think I've really contributed much, but it's helped me frame plans for myself.

As a final note: The Vortex Symbol is, in my faint speculation, a tentative indication of an aftershock of the Legacy. A sort of 'pitiful' rebellion which is actually fighting back against the Slaugth. Following the Vortex Symbol, for instance, would be a good way in which to explore the effects of the legacy (for example: unravelling the mysteries of Haarlock's machines, accounting for why he held such power over the Slaugth and the Yu'vath etc).

1.) Tattered Fates, Widower, Tyrant Star at Quaddis

It definitely sounds like the real Tyrant Star to me, after reading it. What the Widower does do, is offer some sufficiently vague and even misleading comments that you can twist into any number of interpretations. While this is neat, I feel its a bit like the Gilded Widow's statements: Sufficiently general that they can be interpreted in a number of ways, or modified to reflect what you want Komus to be.

2.) Strange Material in the Steel Clock + other Haarlock machinery.

The strange material used in the Steel Clock's keystone and other Haarlock artifacts are most likely some kind of neutronium or other super dense material obtained somehow from the core of a burned out star...or even a black hole (though this seems unlikely). The Gilded Widow and other mechanical creations are clearly some form of tech-heresy combined with dark tech or techno-sorcery.

3.) Dominating the Widower as a Scion

I think this is up to the individual GM to be honest. Some form of extended Willpower test would definitely be in order...with some hefty bonuses perhaps related to what and how much the Scion knows about the Widower, and how it was originally mastered by the Haarlocks. Its another example of "here's an idea we had, but you get to work out the details".

4.) Komus as some form of location or nexus

Well, I've already posted my theory. However, another theory could be a world or star that's perished and turned into some form of strange black hole, perhaps through chaos sorcery (Yu'vath?). Without making it a gateway, it is still possible to make the Tyrant Star into some very strange phenomenon, which would allow the Haarlocks to manipulate time and space. So passing through the phenomenon with the proper knowledge and conditions could evoke the effects wanted, on the other side. Similar to how ritual magic traditionally has location as an important aspect, the phenomenon of the Black Sun is a way to drastically circumvent the laws of conventional time and space.

Alternatively, Komus as some kind of pocket realm (created by the Yu'vath to save themselves?) is possible.

5.) Vortext Symbol - Burned with some kind of acid.

Well, the symbol was near the mass-graves of headless humans. Possibly linked somehow, or having some kind of meaning in the Slaugth language/pictograms. They are almost certainly the ones responsible for the mark as they constantly emit a necrotic, corrosive fluid.

6.) Last and First Haarlock vis a vis the Widower's ranting

Well, "first Haarlock" can be interpreted alternatively. In a certain interpretation, first can also be considered the greatest or foremost or even the ultimate. So, that would make the first and last Haarlock (aka Erasmus) the final and greatest Haarlock. Again, just a possibility...especially since the Widower has apparently taken "mysterious babble +20" as one of his skill advances (possibly learned from the Gilded Widow).

7.) The Bray Lexicon

First off, the Bray Lexicon is a still evolving body of knowledge compiled and guarded by a retired Malleus Inquisitor named Bray. He's still quite alive on Maccabeus Quintus, and is described as always willing to chit chat with those curious about the devils, usually warning them that the topic is extremely dangerous to those seeking more specific answers. Bray is only ever mentioned as one of the best sources of information on the Devils, though it doesn't go into details about how he obtained his info or even how much (or what) he knows.

8.a.) Haarlock's return is prevented

If Haarlock is stopped, the Slaugth slowly but inevitably destroy the Calixis Sector. It has been stated elsewhere as well that Calixis has an above average number of Inquisitors, but that this is more then countered by an extremely high level of intra-inquisition intrigue. This is also true of much of the rest of the sector, with a great many cults, power blocs, noble houses, mysterious merchant cartels and even the temple tendency working against the Ecclesiarchy, all contributing to the overall chaos of the sector. It was pretty clear that without the unifying threat represented by Haarlock, the Slaugth slowly infiltrate and destroy the sector.

More info on the canister that's worth mention are: Its clasp is a golden spider (crest of the Haarlocks), and it contains a fine red sand. What this means...I honestly don't know.

However, the rambling on the data slate found with the PC corpse indicates (at least to me) that there is another threat. Although there is a lot missing, if you read carefully past the Gallowglass part, it starts talking about an enemy within and a civil war. It then mentions the Tyrantine Cabal and that t hey were so blind, and that it all goes back to the Legacy. It is all very tantalizing, and again, it can be twisted, turned or edited to suit whatever interpretation you wish.

My personal theory on this is that the Tyrantine Cabal finally discovered the enemy within (or possibly IS the enemy within), and that this enemy turned out to be no less then the Yu'vath, in some form.

8.b.) Haarlock returns

To me, the "new" dark force is actually the Yu'vath reborn or returned somehow. They are the age-old inhabitants of this sector, and they have a tradition for dominating human populations. In my campaign, I am going to make the bird claw symbol, a Yu'vath symbol. They took this symbol as their own, because they have been struggling and striving to understand the truth behind the Tyrant Star (the coming of which is presaged by (among other things) the appearance of a strange bird clawed symbol). After living with the baleful influence of the Tyrant Star for millenia, they have come to understand more about the phenomenon then almost anyone else in existence...until the Haarlocks came and contacted the Night Traveller and/or obtained their lost lore on one of their shattered worlds.

With Haarlock returned, the Yu'vath have had no choice but to act, lest the Haarlock's usurp mastery of Komus/warn the others of their involvement/whatever you feel like inventing. In a twist of great irony, it could be possible that the Tyrantine Cabal has been subverted by the Yu'vath and have been acting as their new lore gatherers ever since...obtaining vital data, restricting it and centralizing it at the Bastion Serpentis, ready for the re-emergence of the Yu'vath.

It is almost certain that Dusk was a world of some importance in the old Yu'vath empire. Either a capital world of some sort, or perhaps their shrine world (maybe because the Tyrant Star shines more frequently on Dusk then any other world in Calixis...about once per generation according to Dead Stars). Which means their re-emergence with creatures of Dusk serving them is entirely appropriate. Of course this does destroy my theory that Dusk and Tanis are the same, but I can live with that =).

At one point, the Yu'vath were actually my primary candidates for the source of the Tyrant Star. In this theory, I had the Yu'vath enacting a great ritual as they were being defeated by the Imperium, throwing the best and the strongest of their sorcerors and priests out of time and space to preserve them. Ever since then, this shadow of the Yu'vath has been travelling amongst their old domains, and every time the dark light of the Tyrant Star shines on a world, the Yu'vath reach out into our world and "test the waters" so to speak, and possibly sending over a few of their number as infiltrators to pave the way for their return. Over the course of centuries, they have gradually started to emerge again, keeping a low profile and infiltrating imperial society with the goal of eventually toppling the sector and re-asserting their mastery. I think this is still a very plausible possibility...although with more info being released about the Yu' vath in one of the upcoming RT products its hard to know for sure...

9.) Anti-imperial texts

The Grey Books of Haarlock contain these blasphemous and satirical perversion of Imperial Creed texts. The Grey Psalter being the most obvious one, but apparently not the only one. More detail can be found on page 27 of Dead Stars.

10:) What are the dead stars?

In my opinion, dead stars are just exactly that: burned out or destroyed stars. Obviously this facet of the lore can easily be adapted to a C'tan Komus theory. However, astronomically, stars that burn out leave behind a super dense core...and Haarlock could somehow have obtained bits of such a star core through some obscure but very hazardous mission (sacrificing thousands of crew to obtain just a few samples to use in his experiments). In the lore about the Forgotten Apocalypse, it does mention dead world beneath burned out or dead suns...so perhaps the Harrowing have a way of draining life from a star. If Haarlock has mastered the seal, he might be able to draw on this weapon in certain cases, resulting in the missing stars in the Sinophian night sky.

As for Haarlock bringing about more dead stars, its entirely possible that as he masters the gate, he is able to unleash the Harrowing on a system. However, Komus doesn't obey any known laws of real space or the warp, so it could take time to travel or even travel in ways that just can't be comprehended by our logical and linear minds, resulting in...well, whatever you wish it. Essentially, after Haarlock returns and masters the seal, the Tyrant Star's manifestations become that much more deadly as the Harrowing consumes the entire star system...

The Laughing God said:

I have to reread Damned Cities either it seems. Augmented and cyber-fitted Dusk Stalkers called Twilight Stalkers somehow sound a little like the Rak'Gol. They are a centauroid race (like the Dusk Stalker) as well and are often augmented by Yu'Vath technology and seem to have been in league (in one way or the other) with the Yu'Vath in the past. Maybe Dusk Stalkers are feral/degenerated Rak'Gol and a remnant of the Yu'Vath dominion of the sector. Just another weird theory...

Xisor said:

That was my theory actually. Remember...

Xisor said:

Bladehate said:

The Tyrant Star could be a place where reality and time is so messed up that it allows entry into other dimensions or times. One other time-related theme that I found interesting: the visitations of the Tyrant Star and the mayhem they cause often makes me think of something like reverse evolution, or regression back to barbarity and bestiality. In one of the prophetic rantings in Disciples of the Dark Gods it says 'man shall be like beast again' or words of that matter. The visitations often end with humans crawling in the debris of ruined cities, bestial and bloodthirsty, as if all civilization and even their humanity have been stripped from them. Almost as if they revert back to a lower state of being. The Children of the Kingdom may be what they will finally turn into, a degenerate type of human, mindless and terrible.

Bladehate said:

So they had it all wrong, and Haarlock was never the real danger as everyone thought. They misunderstood what his Legacy was and what it meant. What if Haarlock was a force for good, however twisted and terrible in its execution? what if Haarlock alone understood the real danger of the Tyrant Star/the Slaugth/the Yu'Vath/the Tyrantine Cabal/something else and wanted to return to combat it? It would be a nice twist if the Acolytes stop Haarlock from returning, smug in their certainty that they prevented a terrible fate from happening, when in reality they turned down one of their most powerful allies?

Luthor Harkon said:

If it was the real Komus, why refer to it by saying 'the reflected light of Komus' or 'the stolen light of Komus' and not just 'Komus'? I am pretty sure that at Tanis the Haarlocks captured the radiance, memory, echo or some other derivative of the real thing (the Duks Hag says as much) by the power of the Steel Clock and that the Widower manages to replay or recall it during the Grand Conjunction of Quaddis.

It may not matter much if you're an acolyte whether you are bathing in the stolen light or the real light (in Tattered Fates they get Insanity and Corruption points from the Tyrant Star and oddly enough in Dead Stars they do not), but I think it is significant to the overall Haarlock mystery.

The Yu'vath as the Source of the Tyrant Star

Going by Luthor Harkon's theory on the basis of the Yu'vath being Old One servants and the Slaugth being C'tan lackeys, might I propose this dynamic:

- Yu'vath create the Tyrant Star. It's Yu'vath sorcery that's ultimately at the root of it.
- Tanis, now Dusk, formerly a site of key importance to the Yu'vath, was actually a Slaugth world. Possibly Tanis was again under the sway of the Slaugth? (I like that idea, the Slaugth had already infiltrated Tanis...)
- The Tyrant Star was the result of a big battle between the Yu'vath and the Slaugth, or more specifically the Yu'vath versus a C'tan. I still like this one, that the Tyrant Star is the result of a serious sorcerous-warp weapon against a C'tan. Or proto-Yu'vath sorcery, at least.

That way Tanis can be exactly as we know it and, after the Tyrant Star is deployed, it becomes Dusk. Tanis, before it was heavily human, was formerly a Slaugth world of some repute and so the Yu'vath chucked Komus at it too.

Means that the back history can be a swirling 'real history' where every history nugget doesn't line up completely, but, to satisfy all of us, there's a pleasing element of conceitedness/design/coincidence about it all too.

As for it being 'the Real Komus' at Quaddis, see my earlier comment that Quaddis was a 'summoned' Komus whereas most instances of its appearance are actually an 'normal' appearance of it. Hence 'reflected light'. Might've been Komus as viewed through a series of cosmic, clockwork prisms...

Okay this might be a long shot: but I just read the description of the Dusk Stalker again in DH Core Rulebook (remember, augmented Dust Stalkers named Twilight Stalkers) are set loose in the alternate future in which Erasmus Haarlock was not stopped).

It is listed as Obscuro Majoris, which makes clear that the origins and nature of these creatures is unknown (not just xenos) and that they are mightily dangerous. Besides, it resembles a cross between a 'withered elderly human and a four-limbed spider'. A spider! The spider is the heraldry of the Haarlock house and Erasmus himself has been called that 'old spider'.

Long shot, like I said, but spiders are significant to the Haarlocks, almost their totem animal, and besides, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't really out to get you!

Hmm, query: Stopping Haarlock's Return as 'The Traveller', does that constitute 'unlocking' the Traveller's role as one of the locks? Or am I confusing sevens here?

That depends on what you want the Locks to be. There isn't really any outright information linking the devils and the Locks directly to one another. Even in my campaign I haven't decided yet if the Devils are the Locks or merely the guardians.

In my campaign its obviously not a problem since the original Night Traveller (the Dark Age of Technology artifact used to close the rift into the Echoing Vault) is still out there...although probably non-functional or powered down somehow. Haarlock has just been the latest one to usurp the mantle so to speak.

However, the Locks and/or the Devils could be roles within the Calixis Sector. Something demanded by the Fates or the workings of some truly ancient warpcraft rituals. The roles of the other six devils are fairly static, inhabited as they are by extremely powerful Daemons. But the seventh Devil serves the function of the Herald. A role uniquely suited to a mortal (powerful, but still mortal). As the Herald, the Night Traveller is a beacon of change or perhaps re-affirmation of whatever purpose the Devil's serve.

In essence, Haarlock could just be the latest mortal to take up the mantle of the Night Traveller. Depending on your campaign, he could try to free the Devils or shatter the Locks. Or perhaps he could re-empower them somehow, to maintain their function/existence. So by preventing his return, the players could be weakening the warpcraft workings of the ancient Yu'vath...or preventing the other Devils from being empowered for another millenia or two. Or whatever suits your campaign.

If that's the route you wish to take, it might be an idea to let the players discover that there have been multiple previous Night Travellers...

Did anyone read the introductory bit of fluff in Disciples of the Dark Gods?

It features inquisitor Herrod descending into the depths of the Bastion Serpentis to learn the secrets of the Tyrantine Cabal. He finds the tomb of Cassilda Cognos. With him he brings an undisclosed item from the auction in the House of Dust and Ash, given to him by ... Silas Marr! Herrod, ofcourse, makes an appearance in quite a different form (a cyborg monster who speaks in pre-recorded words) after sustaining horrible wounds and possibly even death in service to the Cabal. In DotDG he is still in one piece ...

laughing god, did you also catch in the intro to DotDG that when he crosses the archive, he passes over/by/under a image of the Emperor triumphant over the wyrm, which is also on the door to the omega vault?

course i guess that could just be a standard forbidden knowledge ward

Malkith said:

Yeah I read that! Wondered about that too. I assumed it pointed at the Wyrm = Dragon C'tan supposed to be hidden on Mars and more or less venerated by the Mechanicus (see the fluff in the Codex: Necrons from Games Workshop). But maybe it's more significant than that!

well serpents are a symbol of knowledge, could just be a symbol of the supression of knowledge/truthiness, the AdMech path seems more of a stretch to me,

im away from book atm but the ordos built the omega vault in a preexisting structure to make erioch yes?

Malkith said:

Where/in what context are serpents a symbol of knowledge? Certainly not in the Warhammer 40,000 universum. There is hardly any mention of snakes or serpents. But there is a Dragon (i.e. Wyrm) who was a C'tan which was vanquished by the Emperor and then unbeknownst to everyone alive now was interred on Mars in the care of the Mechanicus. That's not far-fetched at all, but not that obscure semi-secret fluff in the 40,000 universe, outlined in the Codex:Necrons. In fact it is this Dragon who may be teaching the Mechanicus their knowledge and secrets.

In this case I honestly think you're thinking too hard in trying to link this symbol of the Emperor triumphant to the C'tan. Yes, I know it's a universe built on mystery and conspiracy and what have you, but it's still a universe that is dimly founded on our own if we track back far enough to the genesis if you will. To that end, I think it'd be fairly simple (though perhaps less fun) to assume that it's merely a symbol of man's ability to dominate and contain that which stands against it. It could, to that end, also serve a dual purpose and simply be a warning. A sort of here be dragons motif that points out that though the emperor can and has conqured what lies beyond the door, the contents of such a place still entail a great risk to those that would attempt to see and meddle with them.