Tanis is Dusk? But wasn't Tanis renamed "St. Astrid's Fall" or some such? Unless of course St Astrid's Fall is right next to Dusk... or wait, even more to the point, what if the renaming never took place and instead if was relabeled "Dusk". Also, St. Astrid fell, perhaps the Dusk Hag knows something about this

Dusk is in Malfian Subsector,

St Astrids Fall is moon of Tanis and is in Hazeroth abyss

so says the star map

Well, if you read up on page 18 of DotDG its got a lot of nifty little details.

The actual message was recovered on a crashed lander on Dusk.

The message is a status update to the Adeptus on the status and current population of Tanis. Tanis Prime and Sekmet Orbital's populations are dropped to zero from nearly 100 million. The Population of St. Astrid's Fall goes from 18 million to 11,000. Total loss of human life in the Tanis system is in the vicinity of 110 million.

The final part of the data fragment is the directive that all knowledge of Tanis be retroactively deleted. All logs, records, maps etc are to be removed, under penalty of death. The channel this is sent on is named "Channel Tenebrae" which would likely mean the involvement of the Tyrantine Cabal...possibly in covering this catastrophe up.

I don't recall where I read it, if it was in one of the little dark fluff boxes or if it was in a fluff quote, but I remember seeing somewhere that St. Astrid's Fall was the agri-moon that helped support the population of the Hives on Tanis Prime.

So yeah. Tanis Prime and St. Astrid's Fall are definitely connected.

Malkith said:

You're absolutely right.

Now here is where it gets really **** strange...

St. Astrid's Fall is a moon orbiting the Gas Giant named Sekmet...in the message recovered from Dusk, a space station named Sekmet Orbital is also listed under the Tanis system.

So...if St. Astrid's Fall and Sekmet are located in the Hazeroth Abyss, where the hell is Tanis Prime? There is a Forbidden world named Soprony in that same area, and the planetary listings just state that its Xenos/Forbidden. That might be Tanis Prime.

But then...how the hell (and why?) did this message end up on Dusk?

i read that more as tanis prime, had the sekmet orbital (space station), and st astrid's fall is a moon in the system, im away from book atm, dont know if it says it is a moon of prime or another planet in that system,

the neighboring gas giant on the star map named sekmet is either the designers getting streams crossed, or coincidence, space is big, really big

the mystery of the fragment is how it got to dusk, and what sort of ship it was in, both listed as unrecognized and in my opinion is the real reason for that fragment

side not is i pointed out the dusk =/= tanis thing to The Baron over a year ago in a thread about the andratis

The Dusk Hag's current 'host's' name, prior to her becoming a host, could've been Laracan Wolfe?

Otherwise, this is absolutely stonking stuff. It's tremendous!

Xisor said:

host? Laracan Wolfe? what am I missing here?

Malkith said:

Well, to be honest that star map is more conceptual then it is accurate. Also, as you said...it is possible that multiple authors overlooked a minor detail, or, as you're suggesting, that its a complete red herring. But I think I'm going to take the hand out and use it, more or less as it is for my own purposes.

I think I'm going to explain it as an act of deliberate misdirection by the Collegium Tenebrae (who will most likely be my group's main Inquisitorial nemesis). In fact, since its being sent on a Channel named Tenebrae I might let them do the discovering of the item, and use that as the last bit of circumstantial evidence they need to prove that Dusk and Tanis are the same and that the Collegium Tenebrae are going about deliberately falsifying, suppressing and covering up information on the Tyrant start..

It would also explain why Dusk receives regular visitations by the Black Sun.

Bladehate said:

The Tyrant Star being the seal on the Echoing Vault (and also its access way) makes sense if you read up on some fluff in DotDG. In the first chapter, where the Tyrant Star is addressed, it starts with a quote listing Komus as an Obscuro threat, a category that may be used to describe threats from mankind's own antiquity/past (or words of that matter). We know that the seal is some techno-arcane thing from the Dark Age of Technology (as listed in the Radical's Handbook) to prevent the Harrowing from entering our reality. So if Komus is an Obscuro threat, and Obscuro threats are from mankind's own past, Komus may very well be the seal as Bladehate theorized.

TLG: Larracan Wolfe is the name of the acolyte (Explicator ranked, IIRC) who sent the message fragment retrieved from Dusk about Tanis etc. The inference being that that character is still alive, of sorts, and is possessed by the Hag.

Personally, given that my current character is a Duskan and we've recently met the Hag at the end of Dead Stars, I'm quite happy for Dusk and Tanis to be one and the same.

Well, I'm choosing to view Tanis and Dusk as the same thing. But this is primarily because it will give players a greater recognition when they step out of the portal on Dusk. I would prefer them to be reasonably equipped when they encounter the Dusk Hag (in terms of knowledge) so that they will take her at her word. Of course they would do that anyway if one of them rolled a Legends lore roll and I told them she was an ancient, near mythological warp goddess (IE daemon). But this way I get to add some depth and possibly some pre-experience. Either way, this is a pretty minor point and is in no way pivotal to the central plot.

My main concern is that there is so much material, fitting it all into the campaign is likely to bloat it hugely. So I may have to start making some hard choices about which factions and plot lines I allow my players to cut short. The central plot concerning the Haarlock Legacy will still be there, but the challenge will be to put all the other bits and pieces of the meta plot into the campaign so that the conclusion in Dead Stars has the greatest possible impact and the choice they make will really plague them.

Of slightly secondary concern is the Rogue Trader campaign I'll be launching after Dead Stars. Assuming the players blocked Haarlock, they will need to take on the Slaugth menace themselves. As his blood relatives, they are most likely to choose this since Erasmus doesn't exactly play nice with the family, so to speak. If instead Haarlock is back, they'll need to prevent him from shattering the other Hyades Locks and unleashing the Harrowing. From a GM point of view, I think I would prefer the soft reset of Haarlock not coming back, although as the campaign develops I might just change my mind. It will be the players decision either way, though.

So I think I really have to play up the Slaugth threat, possibly making the players feel that they are choosing their short term survival by denying Haarlock, but dooming the entire Sector in the long term as a consequence.

This will mean that I need to find a way for the Slaugth to impact most of the other adventures, possibly knowledge they obtain relating the danger the Slaugth pose or running into old evidence of Slaugth feedings.

I also really want to play up the faction in-fighting and secret wars feeling of the Calyxis Inquisition. Unless the players really get pissed with one of the other factions, it will most likely be the Tenebrae Collegium that they focus on as their prime adversary in this arena. I'm looking forward to throwing that Shadow War element at them throughout the campaign, starting in the chaos of the HoDaA most likely.

This means the Pilgrims of Hayte, Logicians and anything else will mostly figure as chapter foes, rather then campaign villains. I can live with that, I think.

I'm also planning for them to take a trip through the Warp Gate to the Jericho Reach, to search a truly ancient Haarlock domain. Of course this ancient Haarlock domain is on a Chaos Fortress World, so the only way to gain access is for them to go in during a massive Crusade assault on the planet. I really wanted to give them a feel for the massive warfare aspect of WH40K, since none of them have any previous experience with it. I'm planning on liberally ripping off Dan Abnett's Armour of Contempt novel for a lot of invasion inspiration. I've already seeded some of this with some war stories by Elias Shadrack, reminiscing with the Guardsman PC onboard the Cygnan Martyr on the way to the auction. Still not sure exactly what they will be going back for, but it just seems too cool not to work it in somehow.

Bladehate said:

Yeah I got that impression too from reading your campaign excerpt. Maybe you can throw out some of the Inquisition political infighting .. all these factions quickly complicate things.

Bladehate said:

why would Haarlock shatter the locks and unleash the Harrowing? what's his objective with that?

I also wonder if it's really a choice: Haarlock or the Slaugth. I am betting most groups would quickly and without much ado prefer Haarlock over the Slaugth, i.e. let Haarlock return. It's not really much of a dilemma: Haarlock is at least human (more or less), and more over, it's never been really made explicit in the trilogy what exactly the danger of his return is. It's been surrounded by dire warnings and such, but never in a way straightforward enough to make it really tough what you will go for: letting this old Rogue Trader return whatever consequences that may have or letting the Xenos Horriblis take over the entire sector and lay to ruin the Empire's works there.

Well, first off all my PCs are Scions of Haarlock. And since most of the Haarlock trilogy focuses on his agents trying to kill the PCs...triply so for being Scions...I'm guessing they won't like him too much. His history of fratricide also tends to make him less then ideal as an ally for a group of Scions. I fully expect my players to go through the Trilogy with the Slaugth on one hand, but racing in an attempt to understand his return and prevent it, trying to survive the legacy of their blood.

Only in the Dead Stars section as they go through the visions should it become clear what their choices will mean for the sector as a whole. They'll have knowledge of the Slaugth, and their capabilities, and be presented with evidence that the Slaugth are making their move very soon, so the fall of the sector shouldn't be too far-fetched for them.

Also, starting in HoDaA, I'm introducing Solomon Haarlock as a major source of information for them. A great many of the things at the Auction and in the House belong to Solomon, and I am going to continue that trend. In the campaign, Solomon disappeared some 3-4 thousand years ago, and in my version he attempted to pass into the Echoing Vault but failed...instead getting caught in the seal itself. Most likely the players will run into the actual insane ghost of Solomon Haarlock towards the end of Dead Stars who will confirm the Forgotten Apocalypse and the existence of the Harrowing. He's desperately hoping that Erasmus will free him by taking him along when he passes back through the seal, but being trapped on the cusp into the Vault has also allowed him to see just what he was after and realize the nature of the Harrowing...IE that they are so alien they might as well be Tyranids for all that they can be reasoned or bargained with.

As for Erasmus, his motivations have never been complicated. He wants to remake the past, and remake this reality. After re-tracing his ancestors foot steps, Erasmus built on Solomon's work, and perfecting his machinery and tools, allowing him to do what his ancestor could not. Now that he is returning, he is so different that insane doesn't begin to cover it. It should not be much of a stretch for the players to assume he will attempt to remake reality by freeing the Harrowing. In the process destroying any opposition from the Slaugth but quite probably posing a greater danger to the Sector and even the Imperium.

You're right that the danger of his return is never made explicit in the trilogy...and to me this is a weakness of the campaign if you play it "as is" straight out of the book. And the campaign feels unsatisfyingly incomplete when he comes back and just disappears again after flashing the PCs some gangsigns and walking off. For his return to actually be a difficult choice rather then the "default" the players need to be at least given an idea about the consequences of his return. Just as the danger posed by the Slaugth needs to be fully realized.

Xisor said:

it seems a bit like overreacting, to wipe out your entire bloodline just for vengeance ... I've always thought he must have some other reason, some curse he has to lift, or something he has to set right.

The Laughing God said:

Honestly, I don't think so. The Haarlocks have always been a strange bunch, all the way back to Mordecai Haarlock (check out the Jericho Reach history update) that earned the dynasty their Warrant. Too useful and too capable to ignore, but hazardous to put to use and best kept at arms length when all is said and done.

As a family they've stood outside the bounds of the Imperium for several thousand years and have earned a dark reputation amongst their peers. Partly because of their vengeful natures and partly because they dare what few others do, and somehow seem to emerge all the stronger for it...albeit not entirely untainted...

Erasmus is just the latest in the line, an otherwise average Haarlock who was tipped onto a path of vengeance and blood by fate. If you think about it, lots of fiction have the chains of love and family holding back the savage beast of our dark nature. Erasmus Haarlock is just another example of this, and it allows the GM to show just how far someone is capable of going when they are given reason to. The death of his loved ones removed all humanity and restraint from Haarlock, making him capable of literally anything. And that's the most dangerous type of Haarlock (indeed human) of all...

The Laughing God said:

Overacting? No, this could never-ever be part of the 40k-universe... *polishing my chainsword in order to be read for the queque wars that will break out sooner or later as me and countless others have to stand in line for days in front of some Administratum desk...*

Xisor said:

About Solomon Haarlock it is written that he encountered pre-human xenos empires when the first charted the Calyx Expanse, and the Testament of Solomon which is supposed to be in Lythea Haarlock's tomb is also about these xenos worlds. All this does point to the Yu'Vath, who held sway before humanity reconquered the Calyx Expanse. Yet I cannot draw easy links between Erasmus and the Yu'vath.

I read this on the Dark Reign site in a section on the new Imperial Armour book (Vol 9):

written by Idaan , November 07, 2010

I think that the most interesting aspects of the book for a DH and RT players are the shoutouts to these lines included. Two of the Chapters described fought in the Calixis sector at some point. But the biggest hit is that Novamarines' battle honours section confirms that the "Forgotten Apocalypse", theHarrowing from "Radical's Handbook" really occured.

Seems like the Harrowing are gaining more support in official fluff-releases. Will we see more of it? Will it be explained more thoroughly? is it really Necrons or something else?

On a side note ... how many überarchenemythreats can a setting have ... we now have Chaos, Tyranids, Necrons, the Harrowing and what else to contend with

Funny, I just wanted to write that here right now.

No, I don't think that the Harrowing will become a larger part of the fluff - it's just the fact that Dark Heresy and Imperial Armour share a lot of writers, leading to many interesting shout-outs: like Valdor Tank Destroyers on Vraks being shipped in from the Lathe Forge Worlds in Calixis.

Regarding the IA fluff, here's what it says:

It's mentioned as "Pale Wasting", a mysterious threat that emerged from the Halo Stars in M34 during the Nova Terra Interregnum (so we have a conflict with RH which had it in M32), almost destroying the nascent Imperium. It's not exactly clear what it was: there were rumours of gigantic machines slaughtering sector populations and wasting star-borne diseases. After the threat was defeated by tech-heretical means in what is now Calixis, all records were expunged. All that remains are swathes of dead worlds in Obscurus and one stelae on Holy Terra, giving the Novamarines the honour of "unmaking that which cannot die" and naming 10 other chapters engaged, of whom no trace is left in Imperial archives.

So, basically there was a war of proportions rivalling the Horus Heresy that was completely expunged from Imperial records. Cool.

So I wonder if any of the events in the Jericho Reaches are tied to the Haarlock legacy. Like the slow opening of the Omega Vault. Perhaps Haarlock was the one that opened the hyperspace portal.

Salcor

Salcor said:

The most interesting thing I gleaned from the Jericho Reach timeline of Deathwatch:

715.M41
The Visitation: Two Inquisitors arrive at Watch Fortress Erioch unannounced, their credentials and ciphers for access all in order. One calls herself Camilla Noesis, and the other claims the name Kaleb, but hides his face behind a featureless mask of tarnished silver. They give no explanation of how they learned of the Watch Fortress’s location; they simply say that the time was as it should be. Their arrival coincides with an opening of a chamber within the Omega Vault. Within is found a chronograph dating from the Dark Age of Technology which appears to be meticulously marking a countdown of time, measuring the hours and their divisions with total precision. The Chamber of Vigilance stands in discussion for thirteen days and nights. The two Inquisitors take all records of their discussions as they leave.

13 days and nights? If you say 13, you say Haarlock. It's one of the most recurring themes, the number 13, in the Legacy Trilogy. Also, a chronograph (clockwork?) and a countdown are very Haarlocky.

Kaleb with his silver mask is obviously from the Calyxis Sector: a Templar Calixis (see the Inquisitor's Handbook). These 'jedi knight' types often wear tarnished silver masks. The name Camila Noesis has the same ring to it asCassilda Cognos, who founded the Tyrantine Cabal if I recall correctly.

Wow, it hadn't occured to me, but now it's pretty clear. Camilla and Cassilda are both characters from "King in Yellow", while cognos and noesis both mean "understanding" in latin and greek respectively.

Idaan said:

Yikes. What a great catch!

Now I'm twice as glad that I'm planning on sending my PCs to Jericho for a side adventure as a part of the Haarlock saga. More conspiracy theories to tie into things...

Idaan said:

****, we're really on to something here! Before long an Inquisitorial kill-squad will rappel down the ceiling and put silenced autopistols with lasersights to our heads

Noesis and Cognos meaning understanding, it is clear that Cassila obviously is in the know about the threat that Komus represents. Camila must be a comparable figure then, maybe they are related, or maybe it is one and the same person operating under an alias.

'The King in Yellow' also keeps resurfacing. What do we know about that story? What is it about? Many elements keep being mentioned in this discussion about Haarlock so there must be some relevance to it as the story obviously inspired the writers of the Legacy Trilogy.