Xisor said:

Actually, I had/have a theory that I posted a little over two years ago on Warseer and we had a rather interesting discussion about it. My theory was about a (minor) C’Tan (known as Komus) that was hit by the beam of a Blackstone Fortress during the War in Heaven and thereby thrown into the warp…

I plan to invent some impending background threat for my Dark Heresy campaign based on the Hereticus Tenebrae. I thought about letting Komus, The Tyrant Star be a C’tan that was imprisoned by the Old Ones in a Warp bubble during the War in Heaven. Somehow Komus survived being cast into the warp. Maybe this was a side-effect of the Old One’s attack or Komus was able to set up some kind of Gellar Field before being thrown into the warp. Now billions of years later he starts to reappear into real space from time to time for short moments leading to planetwide insanity and other strange phenomenons.
Anyway, I think about Komus being somehow corrupted by the influence of the warp/Chaos. Do you think *** is possible for a C'tan to be corrupted by Chaos at all? Maybe not corrupted in the classical sense, but more like driven insane similar to the Outsider?

In my view the Yu’Vath originally were a helper race of (i.e. created by) the Old Ones but, were corrupted by Chaos when the War of Heaven came to an end and the Old Ones vanished. The Slaught in turn were some kind of helper/enslaved race of the C’Tan (they have Necron-like technology after all and are psychic nulls).

The Baron said:

No offense taken. Apart from that, I also delved deep into Warhammer and 40K lore for almost two decades now…

The C’Tan/Necrons are quite able to drive mortals insane and their phase-technology could fit the ‘unknown realm of existence’ and ‘walk between dimensions’. Regarding the different mentioned explanations and myths, I think the very reason of them being named is a hint that they are in fact not the truth (but more likely false speculations).
Actually, I read Xenology a while back and also about the Outsider. The harrowing being called a ‘xenoform’ strengthens my hypothesis that these are not creatures of the warp in my opinion, as creatures from the warp are seldomly considered ‘xenoforms’ (but rather warp entities or whatever) and a reasons why there is an Ordo Xenos and Ordo Malleus in the first place. The Tesseract also fits the ‘real-space focussed’ Necrons/C’Tan as these bend real-space beyond the 3/4 dimensions we normally perceive.

Anyway, I can recommend to not see the Necrons as too mundane (and like some Terminator in space equivalent), but more like a vile, alien, extremely advanced and impossible to comprehend xenoform that can bend and play tricks on real-space that are normally only possible with involvement of the warp.
See below for what I wrote on the first page of this thread in regard to a possible Necron-link.

Luthor Harkon said:

The Baron said:

The lore of Komus is always infused with things like 'in the footsteps of fools his coming is announced" etc and other references to madness, fools, an overthrow of order, and delirious feasting.

The Yu'vath

"If it does not rot, if it can lie like this here forever... is it truly dead?" -Savant Preem.

The Koronus Expanse is rife with unnatural drifts of dead stars, each a dim ember, the remnant of a mighty cataclysm wherein a star convulsed in death throes, casting forth a shell of burning outer matter into the voids. The dark outer reaches of the Rifts of Hecaton were long ago sculpted by the violent deaths of dozens, perhaps even hundreds, of stars. A great evil indeed must have moved across the Expanse in a past age, a dark power that murdered the very stars, cluster by cluster. Dead xenos worlds orbit these stellar remains, blasted molten in ancient death throes and then frozen beneath the wan light of a star-ember. Their ruins are cyclopean, their under-crust warrens labyrinthine, and their dire symbols, where not worn to dust by the passage of aeons, warn of xenos sorcery and ancient doom; they speak of the Yu'vath.

There's more, of course. Page 359 Rogue Trader (RPG). I've refined my idea. I really like Luthor Harkon's idea of the Slaugth being C'tannite servants and Yu'vath of the Old Ones. In the time since...stuff's happened.

Komus though? Well, it could be the Slaugth's 'C'tan' (whomever, I don't mind...) whilst the Yu'vath fought and overcame them. Their mad sorcery could've been sufficient to 'possess' or 'chained' a C'tan by the warp. C'tan as a daemonhost? Yeah, go for it. "Nemesis" at least allows for the idea that Untouchables and Soulless folks aren't just 'blanket invulnerable' and that instead they actually have a sliding powerscale, a scale which can be overturned or powered over by a sufficiently powerful psyker.

I like this idea, especially if the scale is unbalanced and distribution distorted. Few pariahs, many psykers. A generic pariah typically trumps a powerful psyker, but then you get room for alot of variation away from that centreline!

The impression I received from most of the story arcs is that the Slaugth know of Haarlock, and fear him to an extent. They seem to be trying to prevent his return from the Tyrant Star in any event.

That would sort of indicate that they are aligned against the Tyrant Star, whatever the phenomenon happens to be. Granted, the obvious reason they don't want Haarlock to return is that he unites the sector, strengthening it against them. But what if there's more to it?

I'm not really a lore fiend like many of you posting here, but I'm finding all the theories interesting.

After initially reading about the C'tan, I rather thought that it might be one of these super beings. But there's a few issues with that theory:

-Psykers: Heralding Komus' appearance, lots of psykers are born or go active. This would indicate warp activity, which isn't in keeping with C'tan lore.

-Bird Claw Symbol: Although not strictly against C'tan lore (what there is of it), the appearance in dreams and in omens of the clawed bird-foot symbol is more in keeping with warp activity.

For those two reasons mainly, I find myself doubting that Komus is a C'tan or Necron related.

To me, there are several main "mysteries" in Calixis most of which are fairly unique, that are a better possible source for Komus. The one I think I like best is detailed below:

-Yu'vath: We know they were warp active, and the source of a lot of dead planets/systems. Its possible that Komus is a form of psychic echo of this race, which still exists in the Warp. Not quite powerful enough to compete with the great powers, but perhaps with some hungry ambitions (and of course, an undying hatred of the Imperium). Perhaps this warp echo is attempting to cross back over or open up a permanent warp opening similar to the Eye of Terror, but under their control.

Or perhaps they foresaw their own doom at the hands of the Crusade and their most powerful sorcerers enacted a ritual to twist time and transport a significant portion of the best, brightest and most powerful forward into a time where the Crusade has grown lax. Their attempts to punch back through into our time and space are the manifestations of Komus. This would be in keeping with Haarlock's ambitions for transcending time, and give him a reason to travel to Komus: To acquire the knowledge and power of the Yu'vath for himself.

Also, this could help explain the existence of the Seven Devils of Calixis. Perhaps these very powerful Daemons were some of the lynch pins of the ritual, and are keys to completing the warp workings of the Yu'vath and returning them to our time stream. This would also explain why Komus slides throughout the Sector, but seems to favor certain planets with repeated appearances (Dusk being one of the most frequent), the phenomenon is tied to this area of space due to the presence of the Hyades Locks.

Perhaps there are descendants of the Yu'vath, tattered remnants that are attempting to enact the return of their race but lack the knowledge and power. Perhaps they've interbred with Humanity out of necessity, creating loathesome Hybrids with their own agendas...

Personally I'm about to launch my players down the Haarlock trilogy and I think I'm likely to go with the above explanation.

Alternatively, Komus might be related to the Adrantians.

We know the Adrantians can manipulate space, and possibly time to a lesser extent. Its possible that during the Crusade as they were being pushed back, they ripped open a hole into the extra-dimension of the Harrowing in an attempt to stem the Imperial tide. This gate was ultimately closed by the mysterious Ad Mech Dark Age Technology, but the weak point remains and manifests as Komus, sliding throughout Calixis in an attempt to once more penetrate into our reality. This means Haarlock is stepping beyond our reality in an attempt to find his answers, but being in this extra-dimension of the Harrowing could seriously screw him up...and perhaps he returns with the intention of re-opening the gateway to the Echoing Vault.

Either way, the above two explanations are based in FFG/BI released lore. Personally I feel that they are better explanations then alluding to the massive amount of lore already published over the history of GW. Again, not saying that referring to the Lexicanum and the random bits of fluff in different Codexes is useless...I just find it more plausible that this phenomenon is rooted in DH released lore, rather then WH40K lore.

Perhaps Erasmus is consorting with the Eldar in a grand fashion? The lost. Eldar Exodites, the fools and Madmen, the Harlequins. And the Eldar have the greatest mastery over travel with the warp. And their FarSeers. Perhaps up to and including time dislocation. If Erasmus made a pact with the Eldar to return them to some sense of former glory, unite the Exodites and the Dark Eldar, and in return he is able to right the wrongs of his line? Maybe the Tyrant Star is a Craftworld.

I must say, if I had the time I did back a few years ago I'd write a research paper on this like I did with Legion (providing several dozen citations of various lore, an in-depth chapter-by-chapter analysis, and connecting them all together with quick-references somehow convinced people that I may have an idea as to what's going on here lol). Sadly I don't have the time and see myself having to quit this pursuit of knowledge in favor of school work and my ongoing RPs (a certain Warhammer Fantasy one that you should participate in every now and then, Xisor )

I will say this: The Slaught are not C'Tan in origin. The C'Tan favor machines and, if the Untouchable gene is anything to go by, you could easily say that humanity is a C'Tan race when they are clearly Old Ones. Perhaps they were created by the Old Ones as an anti-Enslaver force. Perhaps they were corrupted by the C'Tan with the Pariah Gene, which also may have locked them out of the ability for empathy. Maybe the Slaught were once humans who gradually descended as the Pariah gene became more prevelant? All of these are equally sound theories. Also, seeing as how Untouchable humans are converted into Pariahs, I do believe that would be the fate of the Slaught were they C'Tan.

The first publications of Rogue Trader was 1987, Luthor. Unless you were part of the development team, I don't think you've been following them for two decades . Good to see Warseer has survived where Scorched Earth did not.

The Adranti, Spectoris, and the Seven Devils are related. I'd wager money that Spectoris is a mutilated Maiden World of the Eldar. Much like how Woe seems to have been violated in such a way that the planet no longer trusts anything living with a psychic resonance (See Seedworld connection in the Radical's Handbook). Interesting idea though, Blade, that the Adranti may have been the ones to unleash The Harrowing.

The jury is out, in my case, as to whether The Harrowing are the Yu'Vath or the Necrons. I hate to say it Xisor, but in a few ways I'd support Luthor's theory more seeing as how I can see how a simple key could unlock the Necrons (and it says nothing about what happens when the devils meet; see the pylons on Sentinel that help check the growth of the Eye of Terror and potential effects from them being destroyed). Of course, if you could track down where the Yu'Vath world is that is mentioned in the Radical's Handbook and is it by Sacris *OR* the Drusus Marches, then that would be enough to convince me unequivicably that the Yu'Vath are The Harrowing.

And, Mister Jhaeyde, I can't see Eramus being involved with the Eldar. The Eldar, as a whole, oppose Chaos with all their might and will seeing as how when they fall they lose their souls to Slaanesh (unless they are Harlequins where they regain their souls through sheer willpower or the intervention of Cegorach, the exception to this being the Solitaire who loose their souls forever and the only thing that keeps them from eternal torment/damnation is the fact that they survive). He also used them in making his machines to get the Tesseract and consorted with daemons.

By the way Xisor, I seem to recall Dan Abnett discussing the idea of Untouchables being a different frequency in the Eisenhorn Trilogy. Sadly, unless your name is Dan Abnett or Nik Vincent Abnett, you don't get to add anything new to the 40k universe it would appear.

The Baron said:

I will say this: The Slaught are not C'Tan in origin. The C'Tan favor machines and, if the Untouchable gene is anything to go by, you could easily say that humanity is a C'Tan race when they are clearly Old Ones. Perhaps they were created by the Old Ones as an anti-Enslaver force. Perhaps they were corrupted by the C'Tan with the Pariah Gene, which also may have locked them out of the ability for empathy. Maybe the Slaught were once humans who gradually descended as the Pariah gene became more prevelant? All of these are equally sound theories. Also, seeing as how Untouchable humans are converted into Pariahs, I do believe that would be the fate of the Slaught were they C'Tan.
The first publications of Rogue Trader was 1987, Luthor. Unless you were part of the development team, I don't think you've been following them for two decades . Good to see Warseer has survived where Scorched Earth did not.

Luthor Harkon said:

...delved deep into Warhammer and 40K lore for almost two decades now…

From 1987 to 2010 are 23 years (i.e. more than two decades). I started with 2nd edition and the Space Hulk video game (both were released in 1993). From 1993 to 2010 are 17 years (i.e. almost two decades).

Don’t get me wrong, in my view the Slaugth are not C’Tan in origin or were created by them (the C’Tan are more destructive than creative), but they were somehow enslaved by them (and maybe even somehow modified).
The reason is, I wanted to have a more sentient and more subtle race than the Necrons (that was before I read in Xenology of the infiltrating Necron). Most probably the Slaugth are not servants anymore, but became kind of independent over the millennia (like the Krork and Eldar in regard to the Old Ones). Actually, the Slaugth want to prevent the C’Tan Komus reappearing as they are afraid of what it could do to them in its anger (my player will certainly get a shiver down their spine when they realize there is something even the powerful Slaugth are afraid of…).
The reason I see the Slaugth as fitting is due to their Psychic Null ability, their knowledge of elemental physics, their ability to traverse interstellar distances without the use of the warp, their 'harvest-the-living' (or dead for that matter...) attitude and their Necron-similar weapons.

The Eldar name for the Outsider is Khamus by the way. Sounds somehow similar to Komus if you ask me…

Well, I realized on my morning walk that 1987 + 20 = 2007, therefore allowing for the possibility of 2 decades. This is what I get for making posts in the early AMs lol.

I didn't realize you were using the Slaught being C'Tan enslaved beasts of terror as a plot point. That explains a bit.

As for the C'Tan-Komus connection... the warp phenomena that is present with Komus rules out the C'Tan pretty neatly here. Especially in regards to the increase in birth of psykers accompanying it (if it were a C'Tan, the last thing that would increase is psykers...). And then the ability for Haarlock to merge with Komus wouldn't be there.

((By the way Xisor, I think it was you who posted this, back before GW largely abandoned player-support and actually had a FAQ on their website about lore, they explained how the C'Tan's bodies are just their physical forms and that they could fight to maintain said forms against Daemons. At least, when the Touch of Chaos was used against them, that was their reasoning a C'Tan would both turn into and stop being a Chaos Spawn))

The Baron said:

Well, my (admittedly weird) theory is that the C’Tan - thrown into the warp due to being shot by the Talisman of Vaul and sustained by its own kind of Geller Field/Dyson Sphere (i.e. Tyrant Star) – became so infused with warp energy (or better its Necrodermis) that whenever it reappears in real-space for those short moments of time, it causes warp phenomena and influences its utmost vicinity by the vile chaos energy and insanity it sort of radiates.
The C'tan is now more or less trapped/imprisoned in its own (warped) Necrodermis and needs a new coherent form to be really and fully reborn without being drawn back to the warp over and over again. Erasmus Haarlock ‘simply’ used the Blind Tesseract to travel into the warp infused Dyson Sphere/Tyrant Star and sort of ceased to exist as a human being from then on, but it gave the C’Tan the first coherent being to use for assuming a physical form outside the Dyson Sphere/Tyrant Star again. So the reappearing C’Tan has the appearance of Erasmus Haarlock as he had entering the Tyrant Star, as well as his memories, but is far more than a mere human being from the moment now on (or from the moment on it leaves the Tyrant Star through the Blind Tesseract again as in Dead Stars). And that is when my campaign reaches Ascension level…

Feel free to ignore my ramblings though…

lol, no worries Luthor.

The Dyson Sphere is the Outsider who had eaten an abnormally large number of his brother/sister C'Tan in a short period of time (no time to digest resulting in a serious bad case of schizoid indegestion). He went insane and became the Dyson Sphere (see a Wiki entry for Dyson Sphere).

The Void Dragon was the one who was shot with the Talisman of Vaul. It landed on Earth where it in its weakened state was conquered by the Emperor. The Emperor then put it on Mars in a long-term plot leading to the formation of the Adeptus Mechanicus and his gaining of great technological knowledge.

As for what you wrote and its ties into your campaign, I believe the term is "My House, My Rules" .

Well, as I mentioned in my previous post, I feel that the Tyrant Star is based on FFG published material. Obviously those of you steeped in the WH40K lore can easily draw connections to already published lore, and I think that's also fully intended. In this way, groups who already have a heavy background in the WH40K universe can enhance their play experience.

At the same time, I feel that Komus is intended to be perfectly (and perhaps preferably) explainable with the FFG published material. I don't think that FFG is attempting to add to the overall meta-lore of the WH40K universe so much as they are trying to add depth to their corner of it. My group as a whole are pretty new to the WH40K lore so that's also got a lot to do with my approach to things, although at least two of my players are enthusiastically throwing themselves into the setting.

So, with that out of the way, I'm going to restrict myself to Komus theories that primarily involve the FFG published material.

In keeping with that, I have to ask The Baron why you feel that the Adranti and the Seven Devils are connected? As I see it, the Seven Devils are Daemons and pretty closely connected to the Hyades Locks that are also alluded to in the Radical's Handbook. Perhaps they are the locks, or possibly they are the guardians of the locks in some way. Either way, the Locks and the Devils themselves seem to be more Warp aligned in nature then anything else.

Which is why I don't personally see a connection with the Adrantians. From what I gathered, the Adrantians were high tech. Their focus seemed to be genetic manipulations and advanced knowledge of the properties of matter and energy. The Aegis Data Fragment supposedly recovered from the Adrantis Nebula holds a great deal of knowledge about energy and has led to the refinement of Sollex energy weapons.

So to me, the Adrantians were dabbling more in forbidden technology and not so much in the occult or warp craft. I think personally that I'm going to cling to this theme in my game world. This way I get a source of enemies that doesn't fit neatly into "warp and chaos = bad" category. And perhaps I could open up the possibility of humanizing them in some way: IE they did what they did out of necessity etc. I find that I like the idea of the Adrantians engaging in genetic manipulation of their form to better adapt to the worlds they lived on. So, things like gills and other aquatic modifications for those living on Spectoris. Perhaps even more damning, the Adranti viewed this transformation the way we would view donning a space suit or deep sea suit... undergoing gene therapy and retailoring to adapt yourself to the world you inhabited would be viewed as normal.

This would definitely be enough to cause them to be declared utterly heretical by the Imperium. But it would also explain why the fight to cleanse the Adranti Nebula was so legendarily brutal. Fighting enemies with the technology level a half-step higher then the Imperium who are also perfectly adapted to their local environment strikes me as truly nightmarish.

So, if the Yu'vath are the occult monsters and the Adranti are my high tech echoes of the Dark Age of Technology, where do the Slaugth fit in? Hmm....

Adrantians, oops, I'd forgotten about them.

As it stands, I don't have any overt problem with a lot of the theories in the last few pages. I *like* the idea of a possessed-C'tan being Komus mainly because it's new, it's a fusion of stuff. That's largely my central point on the 'Komus can't be C'tan/Necron as its warpy' side of things: it totally could be *if* there's more to the story than we know.

Look at "Dead Stars", which gives another thing I don't think's been mentioned: the Dusk Hag. I presume she's one of the Seven Devils. I also presume that the Tyrant Star *isn't* but that the Dark Traveller is and that the Dark Traveller is whatever's emerging from Komus when Haarlock comes back. Perhaps this is all an elaborate way of getting long-time super-warp-entities a la daemonhosts into reality for a longer time?

(Also TheBaron, speaking of Dead Stars, when're Mae, Neit and Keira being dropped on Mara, hmm?)

Anyhow. Necrons being the Harrowing: I certainly don't think it's preposterous or such, I just think there are ... more satisfactory candidates?

At the worst, I would be happy to see the Tyrant Star as nothing more (and nothing less) than a really odd warp phenomenon, perhaps related to the Yu'vath, Slaugth and the Dark Traveller, perhaps merely a coincidence (in the same way that Sol is coincidentally and heavily involved in all of humanity's wars). The flipside of it is that there *is* alot more to it. This much is pretty much blatant in the 'foretelling' things from Deathwatch (along the lines of "the legacy of the machinations of gods will wreak havoc beyond humanity's imaginings" or some vague thing like that). Furthermore, if you'll nip along to Gav Thorpe's recentish blog posts (last month of so, his Introspections ones), you'll find he's answered a couple of mine and LordLucan's (and Xhalax's) questions regarding eldar-y stuff.

Most endearingly to me, he's went quite above and beyond in answering things regarding his views on 'eldar metaphysics', such as the relationship between the vague, social-anthropological idea of Khaine and the actual idea of Khaine as an actual, individual, existant entity. Or rather: showing how the former idea can be very, very compelling without 'simplifying'/literalising to the latter idea. Go, check 'em out!

Back to Haarlock: Here's a shot. Solomon ascended/merged with something to become the Dark Traveller. Erasmus went in and sorted everything out. Now the Dark Traveller can emerge, a blasphemous trinity of great-grandfather, great-great-grandson and unholy spirit...

Xisor said:

I don't think Solomon had anything to do with it. Erasmus has become the Dark Traveller during his purge of his family and by venturing towards the Tyrant Star. By returning, he is also the Herald...

Heh. Obviously I have my perspective wrong. I knew that the Eldar virulently oppose Chaos. For some fool reason, I didn't think that Haarlock had much truck with Chaos. Now having read a bit more... Well, color me chagrined.

I have left it a bit last minute as we have our final DH session this Saturday and we will be concluding the Haarlock trilogy and i have been reading through this thread and there are a wealth of ideas but i really need to come to a decision and get prepped for Saturday. I need to give my players some closure on the whole thing while living some stuff open so for future adventures, most of the options are stolen from others in this thread:

Tyrant Star: I am going either with the C'Tan or new chaos god being born from the slow decline of the Eldar.

Pilgrims of Hayte: Have either mistaken the the manifestations of the C'Tan as new god or correctly sumised that a new Chaos God is to be born and worhsip it accordingly.

Slaugth: No idea at the moment...help welcomed. Perhaps they think the Tenebrae are correct and the Imperium led by Erasmus would thwart their own conquest plans.

Erasmus: Has returned from an encounter with the energy of the C'Tan to prepare the sector for harvesting or has some how bound with his Grand Father and essence of the new chaos God to maifest as the Night Traveller as mentioned in RH p.97.

Tenebrae Collegium: Are in fact Horusians(p.93 RH) and see the return of Erasmus as his 2nd coming and will be the new Emperor.

I think i am leaning towards to the new chaos god but DH can get a bit saturated with the whole chaos/daemon thing and i like the c'tan being something else other that chaos. It would also be a big surprise for my players as i don't think they have thought of that for a minute.

Thoughts???

Replicant253 said:

It sounds fine to me. Apropos, I feel the same in regard to „a bit saturated with the whole chaos thing“. Chaos seems to always be the big baddie and so it really would be a surprise if it is suddenly something very different…

Keep in mind though that the Pilgrims of Hayte normally do not worship any Chaos God as such or even Chaos as a whole. They are an extremely apocalyptic and nihilistic sect that simply want to cause as much destruction and chaos (small c) as possible or go down trying. So, even if they would know it is a C’Tan instead of a daemon/Chaos God, it would not matter to them the least I think.

I like your idea with the Tenebrae Collegium being Horusians.

The Baron said:

Well, that is fine, but has not that much to do with what I’ve written (or supports/cotradicts anything of it for that matter).

Besides, I am fully aware of what a Dyson Sphere is or better what it is supposed to be. As far as I know the Outsider is within one (instead of being one) somewhere beneath the galactic disc and currently being avoided by the Hive Fleet Leviathan.

The Void Dragon was shot by a Talisman of Vaul? Really? I did not knew that there was a precedence for such a thing happening. I always thought such an attack on the Void Dragon failed.

Luthor Harkon said:

Me too: its one of those things at the bottom of my vacuum cleaner, right?

Bladehate said:

I think the Slaugth oppose Haarlock, not necessarily the Tyrant Star. Komus is a third phenomenon/factor, not in liege with Haarlock. Haarlock travelled there to mess with space and time, but does not necessarily control it ... unless he DOES, ofcourse

We have now finished.

I think it was a reasonable finale, and my players especially liked the visions of the past and possible futures section. I added in a vision of them being on the bridge of Solomon Haarlocks ship during his exploration of the Calixis Sector and defeating a Slaugth fleet by tapping into the power of the 'black sun that burns eternal', i felt that added a bit more meat on the bones of why the Slaught fear the Haarlocks.

Anyway the War of the World esque vision of the slaugth turning humanity into goopy soup beat the future vision of Simophia gone to hell and they let Haarlock, after a climatic battle with the Acolytes and Herrod's group vs Master Nonesuch and Miss Boo, walk through.

They were a tad dissapointed after four adventures that Grand Pappy Erasmus then just turned around and gave them a weird eye signal and left. End of adventure.

So despite all my worries that i better come up with a coherent theory about what the whole thing is all about, my constant cryptic messaging and vague clue giving, as is the mood with DH source books, was for very little. The players have little idea about what the Tyrant Star is or what Haarlock now is or where he has been.

It was kind of depressing to hear the players unanimously state that House of Dust and Ash was the best of the four, the first one we did. I kind of agree with them, HoDaA is a great premise and played very well with my group.

So players are trapped on Dusk with Herrod whose Acolytes are all dead (by the way Herrod as a Horusian worked very well...it gave a very plausible idea as to why they want Erasmus to come back). Taking a break from Dark Heresy to finish of Dawn of Defiance for Star Wars saga. I need to think of a way that they can get off of Dusk. Any ideas?

First off, let me just say that as a GM I was a bit disappointed in the "its up to you" ending as well. I know some people really love that because it means they have free license...but for my part, I just think it means a lot of their clues are so vague as to be effectively meaningless. For a plot device to work best, it helps if you have a pretty clear idea on the secrets so that all your build up makes sense when the players look back over it. This is why I decided early on what I want the Tyrant Star to be so that the secrets they discover, the clues thePC learn and the artifacts they find all make sense in the grand scheme of things.

For me, I've decided that the Tyrant Star is the point in our world where the seal on the "hole" into the Echoing Vault of the Harrowed is currently located. So the Forgotten Apocalypse was actually did happen, and only stopped through the use of Tech, Dark Tech, warp craft and Imperial Devotion. Because it was essentially an assault on our reality, the only way to prevent the Harrowed from spreading was to affirm our reality. This was done by combining all the aspects of the Materium, the Immaterium and the best of the Imperium. It required an unprecedented level of radicalism standing shoulder to shoulder with the most dedicated of the Imperium of man (remember, this was before the Ecclesiarchy so free thought and secularism were not yet replaced by blind faith).

Essentially, the Hyades Locks were created to seal over the breach and although the seal was put in place, it wasn't possibly to completely eliminate the weak point. As a result, the seal slowly slides through the "reality" of the Calyxis sector, restrained by the Locks and the Seven Devils that guard them...but free to roam within those restraints. Note that the Devils don't necessarily understand or even remember their roles...they are blind guardians without any true knowledge of the Locks or the Echoing Vault, but with a great deal of power, bound to a purpose they don't understand but must obey.

The warp phenomena and the insanity that accompanies a visitation by the Black Sun are all side effects of reality (both warp and materium) responding to this nemesis force, even shut away behind the seal as it is. The Collegium Tenebrae view these symptoms and fear that the Tyrant Star is warp related.

So, what do the Haarlocks know about this? In the ancient days of the Calyxis expanse, Solomon Haarlock stumbled upon the Night Traveler, one of the Seven Devils and the one who served as the Keymaster for the other six devils. This device (a Dark Tech creation of truly ancient techno-arcane science) knew the truth of matters, and Solomon somehow acquired some of that knowledge. The reasons for all this are lost to time, but in my mind its possible that the previous Night Traveller was failing and was seeking a replacement of sorts...or else the original Night Traveller still floats through the Void, de-activated by Haarlock, but perhaps still holding its secrets...

In any event, the knowledge obtained from the Night Traveller allowed Solomon access to new horizons in terms of tech (explaining the strange warp tech, clockwork mechanics in many of the Haarlock devices) and he set about trying to master this new knowledge, and remake himself into another Night Traveller, and ultimately master the Echoing Vault. All of his devices from the Steel Clock to the Gilded Widow have been expanding on the tidbit of knowledge he already has.

During his travels he also encountered the Slaugth, and the Slaugth did their level best to destroy him. Desperate and driven back by the power of the Slaugth, Haarlock was unable to stop them from beginning to feed on the hive world of Tanis and in desperation he employed a part of what he knew to summon aid. In essence, he called out to the Tyrant Star and it answered...shining its black light on Tanis and engulfing it in its energies. The Slaugth rely on their mastery and understanding of the physics of our universe and when the extra-dimensional energies of the Tyrant Star shone upon them, many of their most advanced devices failed...their ships crashed and burned, their constructs went mad or destroyed themselves and Tanis was engulfed in a firestorm of destruction, leaving behind the nightmare haunted world men now have named Dusk.

This then is why the Slaugth fear the Haarlocks: Not only do they have knowledge of the Slaugth's existence, they also have a weapon that neutralizes their most advanced technologies and devices.

This the is also why allowing Erasmus to return is a Very Bad Thing: After crossing into the Echoing Vault, he has been so changed by the experience he can no longer be considered the same and he will go about shattering the remaining Hyades Locks and breaking the seal into the Echoing Vault. By allowing Haarlock to return, the PCs are risking the Forgotten Apocalypse engulfing our reality once more...

Bladehate, this is simply brilliant. You have managed to tie everything together in a very convincing and exciting story arc! Impressive. Are the Echoing Vault and the Forgotten Apocalypse canon-material terms or did you make them up yourself?

Forgotten Apocalypse: Radical's Handbook (pg 122)

To sum up, its a myth so ancient as to be fable. The Phaenonites are one of the factions to actually take it seriously, where most discard it as fairy tale. Supposedly it was a war against extra-dimensional beings, known as the Harrowing. Dated at mid 32nd Millenium, the Harrowing entered into our dimension through a strange artifact called the Echoing Vault, a massive and labyrinthine creation seemingly made of dust and magnetism.

Echoing Vault:

In addition to the above, one of the fluff items in the DotDG (pg 15, at the top) has a transcript of some kind of theorized xenos-script source, although without the context, its easy to look right past it. The transcript of this heretical xenos prophecy mentions the Dark Sun, the Herald (another name for Haarlock) returning from "that great and echoing place" along with more lines of fluff. Hard proof? No, but its more stuff where I can open a book and let my players read stuff...making them feel a greater depth to the whole thing.

Fall of Tanis:

DotGC page 18 has a handout linking Dusk and Tanis as being the same planet. The problem with this, is that the date on the piece of paper indicates the fall only took place about a thousand years ago...which doesn't link up with Solomon Haarlock initiating it (He was active about 4,000 years ago I believe). I'm glad I noticed this before I started handing stuff out to my players and getting caught with my pants down. Minor detail tho. I'll just have Solomon learn of the Slaugth, and possibly some of their weaknesses, and one of his heirs using the Tyrant Star during the fall to stop a Slaugth incursion. Or else just pretend the fall of Tanis happened 4k years ago.

The Plot:

The reason I went with this is because this way different factions of the Inquisition actually all have bits and pieces of the puzzle...but none of them are talking to the others and thus none of them can see the big picture. I'm hoping my PCs will have to do quite a bit of politicking amongst the factions, and slowly piece things together, in addition to the revelations they garner from the Haarlock Legacy adventures. Thus the Malleus/Xanthites will be able to provide them knowledge of the Seven Devils, and old Inquisitor Bray might just have a few clues about why the devils haunt this sector...nothing confirmed but more stuff to get the players thinking, possibly culminating in a conversation with the Dusk Hag so they are familiar with the NPC when they run into her again at the end of Dead Stars. The Ocularians have their Widening Gyre theories (Radical's Handbook pg 108). The Tyrantine Collegium has their prophecies and warnings from Cassilda Cognos. The Hyades Locks could be wrested from the Istvaanians. The Forgotten Apocalypse will most likely be worked in through the Logicians, their rivals whom the players have a beef with ever since Edge of Darkness, who leak over one of the Phaenonites secrets/plans in an attempt to halt the Phaenonite progression in Calixis.

My players were actually assembled by Silas Marr, after he carefully tracked them down through their connections to the Haarlock line, a fact that the PCs do not know. The group was being gathered on Scintilla, and the Tyrantine Cabal learned of this...although they only knew of Marr's interest...not why. Attempting to learn more, Globus Varak employed the apparently Inquisitor-less acolytes and sent them out on Edge of Darkness, testing their abilities and trying to provoke a response from Marr. Upon their successful completion of EoD, Varak was so impressed with them he was about to swear them in as one of his Acolyte cells. Before he managed that though, Marr sent one of his senior agents to the players and actually giving them a choice: Continue on the path of the Ordo Hereticus in the service of Varak...or swear their allegiance to Marr.

Atm the group are all on Solomon (having chosen Marr obviously...but it was fully their own choice which should make them feel even more as though they have chosen to take center stage in this vast plot), going through the House of Dust and Ashes. There's been a lot more background and plot material involved though, and also a lot more factions in the auction. The group encountered the Mirror of my Blood, but although two of them registered (I shortened the manifestation time on the portrait), along with Whent, I don't think they picked up on the significance. There's a lot of weird stuff in the auction, and I threw in some extra items and artefacts so I think they were in Cthulhu overload mode.

I've just ended the last game session on that lovely cliffhanger where the bidding breaks down and Greel murders Hiram Bland, the senior adept. In a way, I almost regret it because the players were having a lot of fun being the wild cards at this auction and finding out about all the different factions and personalities, and trying to play them off against each other. And now that everything has gone to hell, some of those planning sessions and strategizing they did has kind of gone to waste.

They're not actually unhappy about it, just the GM in me wishing I could have worked it out somehow so that their elaborate schemes could have had a chance to flourish more before the crap hit the fan.

Ah well, so far the campaign has been pure awesome and all my players are constantly bugging me about when the next game session will be...so I guess that means its a success =).

Bladehate said:

Brilliant, i'll look at it all in a lot closer detail when i get a chance but consider a lot of this stolen. I am indebted to you sir.

You're more then welcome to it =).