3 minutes ago, Stubby said:

You thinking (100pts):

Trandishan Slaver, Jabba the Hutt

3X Cartel Marauders, Vaksai, Hot shot Blaster, Munitions Failsafe

I still prefer the Z-95 variant, with Glitterstim on the Jabba-boat and four Z-95s, all with Hotshot and Munitions Failsafe. I printed out the Jabba card and tested that fleet out when Jabba was spoiled, and it's really good!

1 hour ago, Odanan said:

Confirmed, FFG is Scum at heart.

Up to 3 Modification upgrades AND -1 to all upgrades? AYFKM?!?!

A cumulative -3 title for the StarViper? (with a trade-off that feels more like an improvement than a drawback)

What the hell?! Those ships needed help, but FFG totally overshot. It's powercreep to a level we don't see since the Jumpmaster.

And that StarViper painting... oh... it's only me to find it extremely ugly?

And last: it wouldn't hurt if the Kihraxz ship miniature was of a Vaksai . Specially since the Vaksai showed already in some card arts and there is the new title. Talk about missing opportunities...

All wrong, FFG. All wrong.

BTW, looks like I'm somewhat in the same creative page of FFG (again). Here are some of my cards for the Custom Card League. That means we get other super requested ships and a Rogue One X-Wing/Y-Wing pack soon?

I'm going to say this once more, the Scum faction has arrived to the point where we are very close to be balanced okay. Now there is just few nerfs to be made for jumpmaster and mindlink and that will be before these guys are out!

And next factions with buffs will be Imperial faction!

12 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I am very excited about this! I like both ships and hopefully now the StarViper will have a place in the meta. However, I am a bit worried about Talonbane Cobra, since that's already in the meta without any fix...

Not to be negative, but is it just me, or does FFG want every single ship to be good EXCEPT the ships that show up in the movies? I mean, I like these ships, but I would've preferred more options for the Y-Wing, TIE Bomber, and TIE Fighter... or the Lambda Shuttle, the A-Wing, the B-Wing, just ANYTHING that my less nerdy friends would actually recognize as Star Wars...

Next, I'm predicting a TIE Punisher and TIE Phantom fix (which will be hilarious, because it'll be a free title that undoes the Phantom nerf!)

I know you're all sick of hearing it, but I seriously feel like FFG is purposely trolling us by having a game CALLED X-WING where the only ship that ISN'T good is the real, original, X-Wing!

I think making money and keeping the game growing in expansions which go hand in hand forced, well, their hand. It's not that they wouldn't like classic Star Wars ships to be at the top; but they have to make each successive release a little better so people will purchase it, because it isn't love for those marginal characters and barely seen ships on film that will drive sales to the majority of the market. Maybe in hindsight they should have held Luke, Vader, Wedge, Solo and the Emperor till the last waves and make them the best of the lot when it's all said and done, IDK. But, we just have to enjoy the year(s) of the Scum dominance and ride that lesser known horse to victory in our new pew-pew Space Thingies Game!

2 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

My pants have literally just flown right off.

Your lack of pants disturbs me.

Jeff

P.S. "We've analyzes their attack plan, sir, and there is a danger. Shall I have your pants standing by?"

"Evacuate?! In our moment of triumph?"

The only creeping I see is that toxic negativity the plagues the message boards of every thing that I've ever played. Friggin superlatives, panic, and postmortum and the base cards haven't even been printed yet, let alone put on a table.

11 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I know you're all sick of hearing it, but I seriously feel like FFG is purposely trolling us by having a game CALLED X-WING where the only ship that ISN'T good is the real, original, X-Wing!

The problem is obviously Biggs, you can't really buff X-Wings without buffing him, unless you just bite the bullet and put "NO BIGGS" on the card.

1 minute ago, Sir Orrin said:

The problem is obviously Biggs, you can't really buff X-Wings without buffing him, unless you just bite the bullet and put "NO BIGGS" on the card.

There have been a number of creative ideas for avoiding Biggs when fixing an X-Wing, I just didn't want to put them here because I know you're all sick of it and I didn't want to turn this into another "X-Wing fix idea" thread. And they can always simultaneously use an errata to nerf Biggs.

These look awesome!

Can't wait to try them out!

14 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Not to be negative, but is it just me, or does FFG want every single ship to be good EXCEPT the ships that show up in the movies? I mean, I like these ships, but I would've preferred more options for the Y-Wing, TIE Bomber, and TIE Fighter... or the Lambda Shuttle, the A-Wing, the B-Wing, just ANYTHING that my less nerdy friends would actually recognize as Star Wars...

Pretty sure that's not the case. I mean, the TIE Bombers just got some love recently with Imperial Veterans, the X-Wing and Falcon got some love with Heroes of the Resistance, and the humble TIE Fighter got more even pilots with the Gozanti release. All within the last 18 months.

...then there's the matter of the seven unannounced SKUs.

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

Pretty sure that's not the case. I mean, the TIE Bombers just got some love recently with Imperial Veterans, the X-Wing and Falcon got some love with Heroes of the Resistance, and the humble TIE Fighter got more even pilots with the Gozanti release. All within the last 18 months.

...then there's the matter of the seven unannounced SKUs.

Yeah, they release new stuff for these ships, but they don't do enough to keep up with the power creep. I just don't think any of those ships stand a chance against the new stuff. I guess maybe the problem is that there's way more ships in the game than in the movies, and they're kind of grasping at straws to find more fodder for expansions (I'm also thinking of Wave XI here).

Plus, it's been several years since Disney took over and made the Extended Universe (now "Legends") non-canon, so I think I'm ready to move on.

Fantastic stuff!! Yeah!

1 hour ago, Darth Onyx said:

Or, a TIE/sf.

1 hour ago, Odanan said:

Confirmed, FFG is Scum at heart.

Up to 3 Modification upgrades AND -1 to all upgrades? AYFKM?!?!

A cumulative -3 title for the StarViper? (with a trade-off that feels more like an improvement than a drawback)

What the hell?! Those ships needed help, but FFG totally overshot. It's powercreep to a level we don't see since the Jumpmaster.

And that StarViper painting... oh... it's only me to find it extremely ugly?

And last: it wouldn't hurt if the Kihraxz ship miniature was of a Vaksai . Specially since the Vaksai showed already in some card arts and there is the new title. Talk about missing opportunities...

All wrong, FFG. All wrong.

BTW, looks like I'm somewhat in the same creative page of FFG (again). Here are some of my cards for the Custom Card League. That means we get other super requested ships and a Rogue One X-Wing/Y-Wing pack soon?

A -3 for the starviper is in NO way overpowered. The things are about 4 points overcosted as-is. The bank-br helps with the last point. And the kihraxz is in a TERRIBLE place right now. When's the last time you saw one do well competitively? This will give them a boost, but it requires you to sink points into them (or run super cheap upgrades) to get anything out of the title.

Honestly, I think people saw StarVipers and Kihraxz so infrequently, they don't follow the proper context for these upgrades.

For people who don't know the PS1 generic StarViper cost 25 POINTS for 3/3/4/1 and the same Action Bar as the Protectorate. For comparison, the PS1 Protectorate costs 20 POINTS for 3/3/4/0. And they both just have torpedoes, so either Fangs are very undercosted (which probably isn't true, the PS1 Interceptor has 1 less hull and evade instead of TL and no torpedo for 18) or the StarViper was REALLY OVERCOSTED.

4 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Honestly, I think people saw StarVipers and Kihraxz so infrequently, they don't follow the proper context for these upgrades.

For people who don't know the PS1 generic StarViper cost 25 POINTS for 3/3/4/1 and the same Action Bar as the Protectorate. For comparison, the PS1 Protectorate costs 20 POINTS for 3/3/4/0. And they both just have torpedoes, so either Fangs are very undercosted (which probably isn't true, the PS1 Interceptor has 1 less hull and evade instead of TL and no torpedo for 18) or the StarViper was REALLY OVERCOSTED.

The generic protectorates are actually overosted by about a point, which goes to show how much more ridiculously overcosted the starviper is.

3 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Honestly, I think people saw StarVipers and Kihraxz so infrequently, they don't follow the proper context for these upgrades.

For people who don't know the PS1 generic StarViper cost 25 POINTS for 3/3/4/1 and the same Action Bar as the Protectorate. For comparison, the PS1 Protectorate costs 20 POINTS for 3/3/4/0. And they both just have torpedoes, so either Fangs are very undercosted (which probably isn't true, the PS1 Interceptor has 1 less hull and evade instead of TL and no torpedo for 18) or the StarViper was REALLY OVERCOSTED.

I dont see a lot of ******* about Starvipers right now. I think, virtually everyone agree's that it needed some similar discount.

The chicken littles here are worried about the crazy discounts from "Graz the Bargain Hunter" giving them like, five upgrades for free or 1 point.

Seeing that many cards given to a ship for so few points is.....a little nuts.

I think its balanced because the K-raz was literally that bad, but it looks scary when tony stark comes out of the workshop with power armor instead of fleshy human arms

Well, I'm seeing a lot of imperial players complain about the comparison to Royal Guard TIE - nevermind squints are slightly cheaper than Kihraxz in the first place and have no need for Engine Upgrade or Vectored thrusters. It has to spend 4 points and 2 of its bonus slots to do what the Interceptor does natively. The discount is good, again, because it makes you WANT to put upgrades on the Kihraxz in the first place, as opposed to just run Scum Zs or something, but this works for it because it's capabilities are very limited to start with. People are gonna make a lot of mistakes overloading Vaksai with more stuff than they need just because it's cheaper, and the ship will still go pop just as much as anything else with its stats would.

58 minutes ago, PastrySandwich said:

The timing isn't the issue, Bossk forces you to cancel the crit to get the 2 hits, harpoon requires the crit to go through uncanceled. It is one or the other in that situation.

It looks like it is going to come down to initiative. The trigger for both abilities is the attack hitting. If Bossk has initiative, he decides whether to split turn his crit into a pair of hits, if he takes the pair of hits, then Harpooned! won't have an uncanceled crit (unless there was more than one crit result). If the Harpooned! ship has initiative, Harpooned! will resolve before Bossk has a chance do anything with that crit.

It's entirely possible that FFG will issue a FAQ or an errata that makes it work differently but based on the rules and the way those effects are written, it certainly seems that this is a case where initiative matters.

Harpooned!:
'When you are hit by an attack, if there is at least 1 uncanceled [CRIT] result, each other ship at Range 1 suffers 1 damage. Then discard this card and receive 1 facedown Damage card'

Bossk:
'When you perform an attack that hits, before dealing damage, you may cancel 1 [CRIT] of your results to add 2 [HIT] results'

23 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

A -3 for the starviper is in NO way overpowered. The things are about 4 points overcosted as-is. The bank-br helps with the last point. And the kihraxz is in a TERRIBLE place right now. When's the last time you saw one do well competitively? This will give them a boost, but it requires you to sink points into them (or run super cheap upgrades) to get anything out of the title.

Sure, let's base the cost balance of the old ships in a few Scum ships released recently (Jumpmaster, Protectorate, Lancer...). -2, -3 titles for everyone! Wouldn't it be easier to increase the cost (by FAQ) of some OP ships?

I'm not saying the StarViper and the Kihraxz didn't need a help, but the way FFG is fixing them is unimaginative, poor designed and just add to the balance problem.

What now? TIE/in and E-Wing titles with -3 cost? X-Wing with -2?

Actually, a -3 cost to Ewings wouldn't break the game, imho.

It probably wouldn't even do anything except for Corran, who already is good anyways.

Just now, MaxPower said:

Actually, a -3 cost to Ewings wouldn't break the game, imho.

This is poor design. There are many ways to help the non-Corran E-Wings without giving the ship a -3 title...

1 minute ago, Odanan said:

Sure, let's base the cost balance of the old ships in a few Scum ships released recently (Jumpmaster, Protectorate, Lancer...). -2, -3 titles for everyone!

I'm not saying the StarViper and the Kihraxz didn't need a help, but they way FFG is fixing them is unimaginative, poor designed and just add to the balance problem.

What now? TIE/in and E-Wing titles with -3 cost? X-Wing with -2?

It's not basing them just on the 3 new scum ships. It's not compared to the jumpmaster or lancer at all. The starviper is definitely way overcosted compared tot he protectorate, but the only protectorates we see are the 2 top named ones, and thats in large part for their abilities and the green hard turns. Does anyone argue that PS1 protectorates are OP? That's the comparison I'm bassing it on. I'd argue the pS1 protectorate is actually about a point overcosted itself. Ditto the ps3 and ps5. Thats from comparing to other non-scum ships (or even comparing the generics vs the uniques to the kihraxz, which is itself overcosted). You can dot he same with the starverip, comparing to various ships that all show it being way too expensive.

I disagree that the fix for the starviper is any of those things. The bank barrel rolls is actually quite interesting to me, and changes how the ship works when you don't have the option to do a straight BR. And it absolultely needed a point reduction unless they made the ship vastly more powerful than it was in some way. You're complaining about OP scum ships, i'd rather have the existing ship cost less than keep the cost and make it stronger.

The vaksai title might be similar to the royal guard title, but it encourages actualy using upgrades on the kihraxz, and opens up vastly diffreent build options (on a ship that was supposed to be highly customizable, so its a perfect fix in that regard). Do you go engine/vectored/autothrusters for repositioning and autothruster defense? Do you go with a missile, scavenger crane, chips, muniitons failure and something else? Do you go full dense with stealth device, hull and shield upgrade?

47 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Your lack of pants disturbs me.

Not as much as it's disturbing my colleagues, believe me.

11 minutes ago, Odanan said:

Sure, let's base the cost balance of the old ships in a few Scum ships released recently (Jumpmaster, Protectorate, Lancer...). -2, -3 titles for everyone! Wouldn't it be easier to increase the cost (by FAQ) of some OP ships?

I'm not saying the StarViper and the Kihraxz didn't need a help, but the way FFG is fixing them is unimaginative, poor designed and just add to the balance problem.

What now? TIE/in and E-Wing titles with -3 cost? X-Wing with -2?

I don't think that the Vaskai is an unimaginative cost reduction. The extra mod slots and the discount on upgrades if kind of fluffy for a fighter that cartels and planetary militias take and modify the hell out of. It doesn't make the base ship any cheaper, it just opens up a lot of possible builds that use upgrades that are normally deemed too expensive or are not taken because the modification slot is needed for something else.

I am a little disappointed that the Starviper is more or less a straight up points reduction and trading in the straight barrel roll for a banked barrel-roll. It does seem like it might make the Starviper a good home for Intensity though.

EDIT: I just played around with my templates. I'm kind of excited about the Starviper title now.