I was watching the San Antonio tournament videos that were posted earlier and had a Rules query about the use of an immobilise token towards the end of game 3.

Situation:

There is a single carrion lancer with 2 wounds left and an immobilised token in a wood and a large oathsworn cavalry unit in a position to charge into contact with the wood.

The Carron Lancer unit reveals a Yellow Initiative 3 (Rally) with a Yellow (March 3).

It was ruled that the Immobilise token could be spent before the Rally action to cancel the (March 3).

My understanding from Rule 12.1 is that an Immobilise token can be used to: cancel a (March) or (Shift) action. emphasis added by me

Even though the type of Modifier falls into the Bonus Action category wouldn't the (March 3) still be a Modifier and not an Action; and if that's the case can it be cancelled by the Immobilise token at all?

Under 12.1 on banes

"Immobilize: When a unit with an immobilize token reveals a March or a shift action on his command tool, that token can be spent to cancel that action.

it just says command tool and for all intents and purposes a bonus action is still an action and still counts as a March or shift even if it is on the modifier side.

I'm agree with Brikhause, a bonus or modifier dial action are still actions and immobilise can cancel them.

Rule 4 (second sentence): A units actions are shown on it's Action dial.

Rule 14: A bonus action is a modifier .......Bonus actions use the same icons as actions ( My interpretation: uses the same icons not is an action )

There is a clear distinction between an Action and a Bonus Action which are 2 separate game terms.

Rule 12.1 states Immobilised tokens can be used to cancel a March or Shift action , which is a March or Shift on the Action Dial (Rule 4). It doesn't state a March or Shift Modifier or use the term Bonus Action.

IMO the only way you could stop the March Modifier would be with a Stun token.

I'm siding with @stet2 on this one, primarily because of this line:

52 minutes ago, stet2 said:

Rule 14: A bonus action is a modifier .......Bonus actions use the same icons as actions

They clearly avoided saying anything indicating that a bonus action is a subset of actions. Whether intended or not, that's how the rules are written and that's how I intend to play it until further clarification is given by FFG.

If they wanted Immobilize tokens to cancel bonus actions as well, they should have worded 12.immobilize with the same templating as Aggressive Cornicen:

"When you perform a [march], treat it as modified by [charge]." Notice the lack of the word "action" on this card. Thus, Aggressive Cornicen and Aggessive Drummer apply to all marches, but Immobilize tokens can only be spent to cancel march and shift actions, but not modifiers .

I think the way things are worded makes this kind of vague but I'd lean in favor of Immobilize tokens working on bonus actions.

They go into detail about certain modifiers being "bonus actions" and how actions are on the left dial and so on... it's confusing in my opinion and I can see how people could go either way. One little nugget in the rules not mentioned here yet is 4.3...

"Units perform actions during the Activation Phase. Each icon represents a different action, as follows: *shows a list of all actions*"

To me, that indicates that actions are actions, regardless of which dial they're on, which works nicely with 12.1.

5 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

They clearly avoided saying anything indicating that a bonus action is a subset of actions. Whether intended or not, that's how the rules are written and that's how I intend to play it until further clarification is given by FFG.

The section on modifiers does list it as an action.

RRG, pg. 13:

'49.3 Units resolve modifiers during the Activation Phase.

Each icon represents a different action, as follows:

• Turn
• Charge
• Turning Charge
• Wheel
• Defend
• Enhance
• Bonus Action'

Seems to contradict what the earlier rules state and the wording seems a bit weird.

All through the paragraph it refers to them as modifiers then suddenly switches in this one instance to "action" co-incidentally using the exact same wording used in the Actions section. Cut and Paste error...? possibly IMO especially as 49.3's wording is classifying all the other Modifiers as actions which is patently not the case.

However, due to the contradictory impressions of the rules I think at present I'll keep both interpretations as possible and confirm with my opponent before hand which they understand it to mean and play it that way.

I think it definitely needs clarification from FFG though.

19 minutes ago, stet2 said:

Seems to contradict what the earlier rules state and the wording seems a bit weird.

All through the paragraph it refers to them as modifiers then suddenly switches in this one instance to "action" co-incidentally using the exact same wording used in the Actions section. Cut and Paste error...? possibly IMO especially as 49.3's wording is classifying all the other Modifiers as actions which is patently not the case.

However, due to the contradictory impressions of the rules I think at present I'll keep both interpretations as possible and confirm with my opponent before hand which they understand it to mean and play it that way.

I think it definitely needs clarification from FFG though.

The sections in the RRG on March and Shift only ever refer to March and Shift as being actions. Those sections almost never refer to just a March or a Shift. With only a few exceptions those sections of the rules always "March action" or "Shift action".

If the March and Shift from the modifier dial are immune from Immobilize tokens because they are "March bonus action modifier" and "Shift bonus action modifier" instead of being "March action" and "Shift action" then the majority of the rules around Marches and Shifts would also not apply to them.

It doesn't matter which dial it comes from, you are still doing a March action or a shift Action

Everything on the modifier dial is a modifier.

In addition to being a modifier, they can be a bonus action, or an enhancement.

Bonus actions are just actions on the modifier dial that happen after the primary action.

They're not *not* actions.

Yeah, that section on modifiers is what I was looking for when I wrote my post. I was looking for anything to indicate that modifiers are a subset of actions, but when I couldn't the only conclusion I could draw was that modifiers are distinct. With section 49.3 brought to light, I reverse my stance and consider them actions, meaning that immobilize tokens can stop time as well as stun tokens.

I do concede, however, that it isn't very clear. And as I showed above, there is precedence for not saying "action" with the march and shift symbols, so they clearly could have done that in the rules.

7 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

Yeah, that section on modifiers is what I was looking for when I wrote my post. I was looking for anything to indicate that modifiers are a subset of actions, but when I couldn't the only conclusion I could draw was that modifiers are distinct. With section 49.3 brought to light, I reverse my stance and consider them actions, meaning that immobilize tokens can stop time as well as stun tokens.

I do concede, however, that it isn't very clear. And as I showed above, there is precedence for not saying "action" with the march and shift symbols, so they clearly could have done that in the rules.

. Stun affects an entire dial regardless of what was set. It seems about right that Immobile will affect two particular types of actions no matter on which dial it shows up. Immobilize would be an extremely weak bane if it only affected March and Shift on the first dial. Once a unit is engaged, it's almost a wasted token as it is