So I was playing online and the tourney had rules for TLT. Only hits counted, crits counted as misses. You could still spend focus to turn them to hits, but crits didn't count as hits..

Was very interesting and seemed to balance TLT's. so what does everyone think?

Thanks,

That is actually a reasonable nerf I could see FFG implement. Wonder if a playtester suggested it.

Who knows, but that would be reasonable nerf for TLT.

I like that idea very much!

Clever, easy to implement, dials down the power a little but not too much ... I like it!

OTOH Cluster Mines went from useless to great when the crit was added back in, so if deleting the crit makes TLTs useless, then ... I'm not bothered, honestly.

That's actually a really elegant fix. Doesn't change it drastically but dials it back. It's still really good on stresshogs and Miranda but not a clear choice.

Just to be sure because you say taht Crits are misses, but focus can change them to Hits.
So is what you mean that Crits on TLT would count as a focus result or a miss?

3 minutes ago, Holmelund said:

Just to be sure because you say taht Crits are misses, but focus can change them to Hits.
So is what you mean that Crits on TLT would count as a focus result or a miss?

I think he meant you can still modify focus results to hits.

15 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

I think he meant you can still modify focus results to hits.

That's how I was seeing it too!

I like it. Kinda makes sense too since its supposed to represent a barrage of smaller rapid fire blasts. There's already so much text on that card though.

I don't know if this is cause for concern OP, but the tie Aggressor just let out a muffled growl and looked at you funny...

But honestly, isn't TLT pretty OK atm?

7 minutes ago, Calibri Garamond said:

I don't know if this is cause for concern OP, but the tie Aggressor just let out a muffled growl and looked at you funny...

But honestly, isn't TLT pretty OK atm?

It's fine. We need to focus on buffing the weaker stuff. Only thing needs nerfin' is the Jokemaster.

At first I really liked it and thought it was a clever and elegant way of nerfing them. However, after contemplating it for a while I see one major flaw about it.

This nerf hits the TLT where it's already mediocre- it's accuracy against high agi ships (even worse, it was originally designed to counter them- both in canon and in game), while only slightly affecting their effectiveness against low agi ships that really struggle against them.

I had three baseline (as in, not supposed to be shipped "as is" but used as a ground level concept to be adjusted for fitting well in the game).

1. Making the second attack only trigger if the first attack misses

2. Stripping away the second attack and adding a chance to do damage on a miss (for example: "If this attack misses, roll 1 attack die. On a <hit> result, the defender suffers 1 damage".

3. Making TLT a single, regular attack (as in, no cancelling results) with a bonus based on the target's agility (for example, 2 base dice and +1 per target's agi).

All three of the above are, of course, a palpatine-level change, but if FFG wanted to nerf the TLT right now would be a good time for it- they could ship the altered version with the TIE/ag. (and with the upcoming K-Wing reprints)

48 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

It's fine. We need to focus on buffing the weaker stuff. Only thing needs nerfin' is the Jokemaster.

While I agree the TLT is not really overpowered right now, it is overcentralizing on the turret slot- with the exception of the autoblaster (which is used because it's dirt cheap and deters aces such as Fenn from entering the R1 band) it's very hard to justify using any other turret over TLT.

46 minutes ago, Elavion said:

While I agree the TLT is not really overpowered right now, it is overcentralizing on the turret slot- with the exception of the autoblaster (which is used because it's dirt cheap and deters aces such as Fenn from entering the R1 band) it's very hard to justify using any other turret over TLT.

I would agree with this reasoning, but not with the implied conclusion that a nerf is warranted.

From what you are saying it would follow that nerfing the best turret in effect also nerfs a lot of ships that need it to compete. I'm primarily thinking of the Y-wings, Hwks and TIE-Aggressors of this (that) world. But also to a lesser extent the K-wings and Ghosts, even if they have other options. Buffing all those ships is not realistic (and unwarrented when it comes to the K and Ghost), nor is it realisitc to expect a buff of all other turret upgrades.

I have no desire to push the Y or the Hwk out of the meta just to bring the TLT in line with the blaster turret and its likes. I guess what I am saying is this. Balance between ships (with upgrades) is more important than balance between competing upgrades.

The question is how do you rewrite the errata. As of now it is a firepower 3 attack that cancels all results after the hit trigger is determined. The whole pre-buff cluster mine concept was not an attack so there was no modification, cancellation with agility dice that affect cluster mines. Trying to word it to be just like that you have to figure out how to keep all the attack mechanics without removing defender mechanics. I suppose you could try and HLC to all <crits> to <focus>/<blanks> but then again that will still leave rerolls able to put in <crits>

However when making my custom upgrade cards for my Scum & Villainy Conversion kit for the GR-75 Medium Transport, I realize that card space is a limitation on all upgrades. Take a look at TLT.

There really isn't that much room for additional Erratas such as immediately modifying all <crits> results. Even though the FAQ has plenty of room the Errata still has to be in the confines of the card as if you are going to print it out.

Interesting; love thinking outside the box.

I think maybe if it was unique it could help....but FFG seems to be directly pushing the TLT spam in their latest article. So, it doesn't seem like they think it's a card needing nerfing in the least ?

An idea to help agi2 ships able to survive a bit might be to take a page from the Tie/SF title, basically choose either 2x2atk shots or 1 4atk shot with the same base rule of 1dmg per attack. if that would be too weak, add 1 die for each shot then cancel 1 die.

I just wish tlt didn't obliterate my Khiraxz's...

33 minutes ago, RejjeN said:

An idea to help agi2 ships able to survive a bit might be to take a page from the Tie/SF title, basically choose either 2x2atk shots or 1 4atk shot with the same base rule of 1dmg per attack. if that would be too weak, add 1 die for each shot then cancel 1 die.

I just wish tlt didn't obliterate my Khiraxz's...

I think you are dead on about what makes the TLT so dangerous for game balance. 3 agility ships (especially with autothrusters) have a pretty decent chance to avoid damage if you can stay ahead on actions. High health ships can usually burn down the TLT carriers first. The 2-agility, low health ships? They are just dead.

Has someone considered making it a dual-card? You perform the first attack with side A and then flip the card and perform the attack on side B and then flip it back again. To give the two shots different properties.

6 minutes ago, Narcoleptic said:

To give the two shots different properties.

I like the idea of a dual-sided secondary weapon, but my one nitpick is that it's called a "twin" laser turret, and two different attacks would drive me crazy.

You know what would balance TLT? IF FFG MADE A GUNBOAT!!!!!

I'd sign off on that if the points were halved.