So I was playing online and the tourney had rules for TLT. Only hits counted, crits counted as misses. You could still spend focus to turn them to hits, but crits didn't count as hits..

Was very interesting and seemed to balance TLT's. so what does everyone think?

Thanks,

or you could just use autothrusters.

I mean seriously, TLTs arent that bad.

"after rolling turn every crit result to a focus result."

Makes them still usable but less consistent. I have certainly seen worse ideas.

4 minutes ago, Duraham said:

or you could just use autothrusters.

I mean seriously, TLTs arent that bad.

All depends on what you're flying against them. They CAN be brutal!

Well, Omega Leader likes it

Just give the range bonus to ships out of arc at range 3.

I like it as a solution. Basically the card just needs to lose some efficiency, either by a cost increase, or solutions like this one.

It's certainly better than no fix. Is it enough? Possibly

TLTs really are perfectly balanced, its just that everything else for their slot sucks really bad so they seem OP by comparison. They do really well against certain ships and not so great against others just like basically everything else in the game.

TLT is painful. But it keeps things kinda fair.

A cure more bearable than the poison.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

TLT is painful. But it keeps things kinda fair.

A cure more bearable than the poison.

But didn't you love when the meta was dominated even more by big-base turret ships Wasn't that an exciting skid mark on the X-wing meta?

Whilst I do find TLT a little lame to play, it does give me greater access to that most divine of substances: the salty tears of Dash players.

2 hours ago, Princezilla said:

TLTs really are perfectly balanced, its just that everything else for their slot sucks really bad so they seem OP by comparison. They do really well against certain ships and not so great against others just like basically everything else in the game.

They aren't, they are the gatekeepers that keep low agi ships like B-Wings, TIE Strikers and even Vader (as well as all non-thruster arc-dodgers) off the board.

That - and they are not fun to fly with or against.

8 minutes ago, Keffisch said:

They aren't, they are the gatekeepers that keep low agi ships like B-Wings, TIE Strikers and even Vader (as well as all non-thruster arc-dodgers) off the board.

That - and they are not fun to fly with or against.

They might not be fun to fly with or against but come on - B-wings are not off the board because of TLTs. If that was the case, we'd see a resurgence of B-wings when u-boats wiped Thug Life off the tables. We didn't because B-wings get countered by u-boats too. And by arc-dodgers. And by Dash. And by... pretty much everything else. Maybe they'd do well against bombs I guess? But maybe not...

As for Vader, I actually won a SC with him recently. Had to face TLT twice on the way. No problems. Granted, facing Kanan + Biggs is not quite the same as facing Thug Life but the latter list has problems of its own in today's meta and few people play it anymore. I might change my mind when aggressors hit the shelves but for now I see no TLT dominance that would warrant a nerf. And a nerf would kill Kanan competitively, which would be a shame.

It would help, but it wouldn't make them any more interesting to fly, nor to fly against, so it wouldn't help *much*. The power level of TLTs is a little frustrating, but the automatic-ness of them is far more so. They need the sort of errata that gives them meaningful tactical choices to their use, not just that tones down their power level.

Perhaps replacing "Perform this attack twice " with
"Perform this attack against up to two different targets"

That would debuff it just a notch, making B-wing not insta-die versus 4 TLT, aces would not run out of tokens so much, large ships would still be affected, although not totally obliterated, etc.

In our game, each person had to take a y-wing TLT even the empire players. It was a four way game, and you had to keep your TLT boat alive to win.

Was very fun! and there where times when tlt would roll crit and 1 hit and the player would use target lock to re-roll the crit and other dice. Seemed like a pretty good simple nerf to me.

22 hours ago, Veldrin said:

Well, Omega Leader likes it

Pretty sure he doesn't.

He already doesnt let HLC attacks against him change crits to hits.

TLT doesn't need a nerf. PTL does. Regen does. JM5K does.

8 hours ago, Princezilla said:

TLTs really are perfectly balanced, its just that everything else for their slot sucks really bad so they seem OP by comparison. They do really well against certain ships and not so great against others just like basically everything else in the game.

100% agree, and have been saying that for a long while now. It wouldn't be too difficult to change the turrets to make them all useful, which would reduce the "dominance" of TLT.

Auto Blaster Turret - 2 Points - This is the only other turret worth taking at this point. If anything, it might need to be 3 points, but it's situational enough that 2 is probably fine.

Dorsal Turret - 3 Points - WTF is this s*(&. Let's face it, we all agree that 2 red dice are useless, and that is even more the case with a turret as most things that you need turrets for have AT. To give it a place though, expand it to R1-3. Now it's still relatively weak because it's only 2 dice at R2-3, but it fills a niche and has its own role.

Blaster Turret - 4 Points - Honestly, if they just made it Attack:Focus instead of Attack:Focus, spend focus, that would probably be enough for the BT to see some play. Compared to the fixed DT above, it is only R1-2, but is consistently 3 dice. It is susceptible to blocking and other focus stealing shenanigans making it weaker than a PWT turret.

Synced Turret - 4 Points - Change it so you can reroll 1 die out of arc, or 2 in arc. Getting a TL on your defender is more challenging than the focus for the BT, so you have to have some benefit, in this case, the reroll. Each now brings something useful to the table. TL are also harder to shake, and can stay from round to round.

Ion Cannon Turret - 5 Points - Make it a 4 dice attack. Now it's much more likely to hit the ships you actually want to ionize with it. It's a more accurate turret with a control factor, making it great against arc dodgers, but kinda stupid against large ships

Twin Laser Turret - 6 Points - Now with viable options for the slot, the TLT won't be as prevalent. And it's not currently broken, people are just upset that they never see anything else because nothing else is worth taking. No change needed.

14 hours ago, ViscerothSWG said:

Pretty sure he doesn't.

He already doesnt let HLC attacks against him change crits to hits.

TLT doesn't need a nerf. PTL does. Regen does. JM5K does.

Sure she does, the crits will not be moddable so they won't count.

I thought I replied to this thread earlier but can't find it. Might have been disconnected when trying to post.

Oh I did, well I'll just leave this here.

and my reply

Quote

The question is how do you rewrite the errata. As of now it is a firepower 3 attack that cancels all results after the hit trigger is determined. The whole pre-buff cluster mine concept was not an attack so there was no modification, cancellation with agility dice that affect cluster mines. Trying to word it to be just like that you have to figure out how to keep all the attack mechanics without removing defender mechanics. I suppose you could try and HLC to all <crits> to <focus>/<blanks> but then again that will still leave rerolls able to put in <crits>

However when making my custom upgrade cards for my Scum & Villainy Conversion kit for the GR-75 Medium Transport, I realize that card space is a limitation on all upgrades. Take a look at TLT.

There really isn't that much room for additional Erratas such as immediately modifying all <crits> results. Even though the FAQ has plenty of room the Errata still has to be in the confines of the card as if you are going to print it out.

5 hours ago, Veldrin said:

Sure she does, the crits will not be moddable so they won't count.

So it'd be like cluster bombs back when they were complete garbage? No thanks. TLT isn't broken and doesn't need a fix, but it especially doesn't need that fix.

31 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

So it'd be like cluster bombs back when they were complete garbage? No thanks. TLT isn't broken and doesn't need a fix, but it especially doesn't need that fix.

Yes, if CLuster Mines allowed you to use TLs and focus tokens to mod them. Which they don't.

So it's not like Cluster Mines at all, really.

On 5/29/2017 at 11:25 AM, Stoneface said:

All depends on what you're flying against them. They CAN be brutal!

Which is exactly why they are good. They SHOULD be brutal towards some ships, while weak when facing others. You can't just throw out paper because rock exists.