9 hours ago, Bayushi Bajie said:

Dark skinned people are in the Burning sands and pretty sure most unnamed Unicorns are.

Rokugan is based on Asian myth, mystery and culture though majority is Feudal Japan but not solely based on that. Xenophobia is part of the setting.

also welcome to L5R, might be a good idea to pick a clan while waiting for the official release.

Aren't there also "dark skinned" people in the Ivory Kingdoms too and other surrounding lands around Rokugan? Depending on what someone means by "dark skinned", as it can mean simply African or various other groups. There's also idea that FFG can tweek the setting to include others.

17 hours ago, Bayushi Bajie said:

also welcome to L5R, might be a good idea to pick a clan while waiting for the official release.

Or wait until they've all been previewed, since only like 10% of us are playing in said official release anyway!

Crane clan champion's gay? No problem.

Original champion swapped for a woman? RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!

Really?

1 hour ago, twinstarbmc said:

Crane clan champion's gay? No problem.

Original champion swapped for a woman? RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!

Really?

There's a large segment of retcon ragers in the CCG fanbase. A gay champion is just as easily an aspect of the characters sexuality not revealed in story yet. Gender swap is going to clash pretty hard against those folks psyches.

Since we're talking about retcons, can someone please show up a at Gencon with a shirt that says "OTAKU NOT UTAKU NEVAR 4GET" and upload the picture here?
I don't play Unicorn but I'd love it.

On 5/29/2017 at 9:23 AM, AtoMaki said:

As someone who took part in a massive retcon, I would say the setting can take a lot and still remain true to itself. In its core, you really only need three things for the full effect:

- The Five Rings and stuff themed around them

- Color-coded clans with strong thematic emphasis

- Samurai (in some shape or form)

Once you have these, the setting can be about (almost) anything, and it will still feel like Rokugan. You can ditch the geography, the society, most of the political stuff, customs, families, even whole factions, and ultimately it will make little difference in the end.

It isn't Hoturi being a dude that makes Rokugan, if you know what I mean.

See I don't mind changes, but would rather they were larger changes. So far the changes are minor a few gender changed characters, and slight storyline changes caused by them. I would have rather seen larger changes, which admittedly we still could see. I would have liked them closer to the front jmo

6 minutes ago, Akodo_Metuki said:

See I don't mind changes, but would rather they were larger changes. So far the changes are minor a few gender changed characters, and slight storyline changes caused by them. I would have rather seen larger changes, which admittedly we still could see. I would have liked them closer to the front jmo

Yeah, I'm with you.

For one, as I looked through lots-and-lots of homebrew stuff, I came to the realization that the three missing Great Clans (Hantei's, Fu Leng's, and Ryoshun's) should have been totally in the starting package. Everyone and their kitten are making circles around these three, so FFG should have cut them a slack.

37 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

Yeah, I'm with you.

For one, as I looked through lots-and-lots of homebrew stuff, I came to the realization that the three missing Great Clans (Hantei's, Fu Leng's, and Ryoshun's) should have been totally in the starting package. Everyone and their kitten are making circles around these three, so FFG should have cut them a slack.

I would have loved to see Ryoshun have a clan in the new Rokugan, but not Hantei or Fu Leng. Hantei has his line of descendants as Emperor, and then you have the Miya, Otomo and Seppun surrounding them, and Fu Leng is the Dark One and doesn't need a clan.

47 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

Yeah, I'm with you.

For one, as I looked through lots-and-lots of homebrew stuff, I came to the realization that the three missing Great Clans (Hantei's, Fu Leng's, and Ryoshun's) should have been totally in the starting package. Everyone and their kitten are making circles around these three, so FFG should have cut them a slack.

This is assuming that Ryoshun or even Fu Leng are still in the game. We only know about a Shadowlands, but I didn't see anything of Fu Leng.

Could do without Ryoshun.

Fu Leng is iconic though.. I remembered in our playerbase that he should always be "he who should not be named" and if anyone accidentally says Fu Leng, everyone can hit him because of the transgression.

Well, I'm one of those guys who thinks that Fu Leng has more potential among the good guys as the Loki of Rokugan. Then we can have the First Oni/the King Oni as the dedicated Big Bad for some very interesting interactions and moral standpoints.

So again the story only seems to change to add more females. and not to tell a new story.

2 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

Well, I'm one of those guys who thinks that Fu Leng has more potential among the good guys as the Loki of Rokugan. Then we can have the First Oni/the King Oni as the dedicated Big Bad for some very interesting interactions and moral standpoints.

That could have been a more interesting way to do the whole Kali-Ma arc in Old Rokugan, rather than taking his power and then eventually killing him to make Daigotsu the new Dark One.

And also would make a better scene for the birth of the Spider Clan

1 hour ago, tenchi2a said:

So again the story only seems to change to add more females. and not to tell a new story.

This is all introduction and setup. The real story isn't going to start until the game actually comes out. Whether or not it goes in a new direction then is up in the air, but there's not much point to commenting about it now.

1 hour ago, tenchi2a said:

So again the story only seems to change to add more females. and not to tell a new story.

Patience. It will come.

On 6/6/2017 at 1:10 PM, twinstarbmc said:

Crane clan champion's gay? No problem.

Original champion swapped for a woman? RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!

Really?

I just found my profile signature. ?

On 6/6/2017 at 1:10 PM, twinstarbmc said:

Crane clan champion's gay? No problem.

Original champion swapped for a woman? RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!

Really?

It not the fact that they change out the Original champion for a woman (was never a big fan of Hoturi anyway).

Its the fact that nothing I've seen so far has proven it to be anymore then a PR plug to get more women to play or to be more political correct. They have a chance here to tell a new story, but except for minor changes like Toturi being at the battle where his brother is kill, and gender-swaps the story seems to be progressing the same as before.

It's only been two stories! Holy **** people. Come on. Stop assuming so much based on so little.

5 hours ago, tenchi2a said:

T hey have a chance here to tell a new story, but except for minor changes like Toturi being at the battle where his brother is kill, and gender-swaps the story seems to be progressing the same as before.

Having the Crane Clan champion personally kill the Lion Clan Champion is a huge change from the AEG timeline. If you honestly think that change will not have an impact further down the line, then I'm not really sure anyone here can help you.

8 hours ago, tenchi2a said:

It not the fact that they change out the Original champion for a woman (was never a big fan of Hoturi anyway).

Its the fact that nothing I've seen so far has proven it to be anymore then a PR plug to get more women to play or to be more political correct. They have a chance here to tell a new story, but except for minor changes like Toturi being at the battle where his brother is kill, and gender-swaps the story seems to be progressing the same as before.

Really? Your complaint is that FFG wants to have more customers (in this case women). Doesn't your position strike you as somehow against FFG's profit-based interests? Also, what kind of proof were you expecting from the first two fictions precisely?

If these two fictions really bother you that much... just vote by avoiding the game entirely.

Thaddok

4 hours ago, Yogo Gohei said:

Having the Crane Clan champion personally kill the Lion Clan Champion is a huge change from the AEG timeline. If you honestly think that change will not have an impact further down the line, then I'm not really sure anyone here can help you.

In The original story it was Matsu Tsuko in charge of the relief forces and she attacked the Crane forces to early and got bogged down in the fight, her delay led to the death of Akodo Arasou and all his men, it is never stated who killed him since there where not survivors. Only that he died in the battle when they where overrun. so who knows maybe it was Hoturi

27 minutes ago, Thaddok said:

Really? Your complaint is that FFG wants to have more customers (in this case women). Doesn't your position strike you as somehow against FFG's profit-based interests? Also, what kind of proof were you expecting from the first two fictions precisely?

No my complaint is that that seem to be their only goaded.

I am in no way against them trying to make profit. but the "try to attract another group" move has been used by multiple companies in that past and has not met with much success.

Wizard tried it by redesigning D&D to be more like a MMO fail

AEG tried it by allowing then running D20 Rokugan fail

The truth is it is hard to get people to take another look at a system. You first have to look at why their not playing it in the first place. and I doubt its because there are only 4 woman and not 6 in the main cast.

It more likely has to do with it being a samurai themed game and not appealing to them.

27 minutes ago, Thaddok said:

If these two fictions really bother you that much... just vote by avoiding the game entirely.

Thaddok

This has nothing to do with avoiding the LCG since even if I like the story I'm not getting into it.(I quit card games along time ago)

I looking to see if I'm going to keep the old story in my RPG game or if they can put together a story worth switching to.

49 minutes ago, tenchi2a said:

In The original story it was Matsu Tsuko in charge of the relief forces and she attacked the Crane forces to early and got bogged down in the fight, her delay led to the death of Akodo Arasou and all his men, it is never stated who killed him since there where not survivors. Only that he died in the battle when they where overrun. so who knows maybe it was Hoturi

There are several key differences here;

1) Everyone knows Hotaru killed Arasou
2) Toturi and Tsuko saw Hotaru kill Arasou
3) Just in case, Hotaru wrote Toturi a letter afterwards saying "Yeah, just so there is absolutely no ambiguity, or you need evidence to bring before someone important later, I killed Arasou"

Again, you can't honestly see how that will change anything? Really?

1 hour ago, tenchi2a said:

...

No my complaint is that that seem to be their only goaded.

I am in no way against them trying to make profit. but the "try to attract another group" move has been used by multiple companies in that past and has not met with much success.

Wizard tried it by redesigning D&D to be more like a MMO fail

AEG tried it by allowing then running D20 Rokugan fail

The truth is it is hard to get people to take another look at a system. You first have to look at why their not playing it in the first place. and I doubt its because there are only 4 woman and not 6 in the main cast.

It more likely has to do with it being a samurai themed game and not appealing to them.

...

Agreed, it is difficult to attract new players... but how can you ask FFG to not try just because you don't like it?

Also, AEG and Wizards tried to redesign/adapt their game mechanics in your examples, not tweak the setting (making those examples somewhat besides the point in this particular discussion). FFG's risk to reward ratio on tweaking the story is actually very low here. It could completely fail... but the investment and risk are very low in this case (particularly due to AEG's recent & prolonged L5R failures). Meaning from a business standpoint, it is almost guaranteed to be a net positive. More generally, even a 5% player increase from additional women (whom they appear to be trying to attract) playing the game is still worthwhile since it didn't really cost FFG any significant investment. On the other hand, I think the chance that any players will actually avoid the game based on these story tweaks is negligible.

Thaddok.

PS: I hope they succeed to widen the game's appeal... otherwise I do not think that L5R can realistically be profitable for more than 2-3 years (at the most).

13 hours ago, Thaddok said:

Also, AEG and Wizards tried to redesign/adapt their game mechanics in your examples, not tweak the setting

WotC indeed tried to tweak the setting, but they did not have enough weight to pull it through. IIRC, they messed around with the world's origins, the Thousand Years of Peace not being peaceful, and all the Hidden Emperor shenanigans (I think they were the ones who introduced the Kolat too).

And it is still in the air if FFG wants to redesign/adapt the game mechanics. They are kinda doing it with the LCG, and the RPG is up to being hit by the D20 special dice hammer.

59 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

WotC indeed tried to tweak the setting, but they did not have enough weight to pull it through. IIRC, they messed around with the world's origins, the Thousand Years of Peace not being peaceful, and all the Hidden Emperor shenanigans (I think they were the ones who introduced the Kolat too).

And it is still in the air if FFG wants to redesign/adapt the game mechanics. They are kinda doing it with the LCG, and the RPG is up to being hit by the D20 special dice hammer.

Thousand years of peace weren't all that peaceful. Read the Imperial Histories books by AEG.

Nothing is known about any RPG so assuming a special dice or not system is pointless right now.