How much retcon can L5R bear?

By Doji Takashi, in Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game

18 minutes ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

Eh...I read four issues of the female Thor comic, and it really was ridiculously sexist. Every single man was a disgusting, bigoted piece of crap. I say this as someone who constantly defends feminism.

As for The Force Awakens, I liked it quite a bit, but better than A New Hope? In some ways, sure, but TFA's retreading of ANH was annoying and detracted from a generally fun movie.

In any case, I get that you were mostly parodying Huitzil's incredibly hyperbolic "it's a lie. It's a LIE! IT's. A. LIE!!!! (x100)" silliness.

The crappy men in Thor is part of what that comic is about. The same way racists are everywhere in CA:SW.

A New Hope has a boring villain (he only got interesting later)and a boring protagonist who only complains all the time.

And yes, while I do believes in that things I know how subjective they até and was making a joke.

40 minutes ago, kempy said:

Sometimes reading your posts i think it's opposite to be small.

Which of my posts gave you this impression? :)

26 minutes ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

The Force Awakens is very much a flawed film as well, though mostly in different ways.

I actually love Jedi. The whole throne-room duel between Luke and Vader is by far the best of the SW films, at least form a dramatic and cinematography perspective. I don't even mind the Ewoks, really.

That said, Empire is easily the best-made film of the series. It has better writing, better acting, and mostly better pacing and plot than any of the rest. That's probably because Lucas didn't write the final script, or direct it (yes, there would be no Star Wars without Lucas, but he was far better for broad ideas than the particulars, especially when it comes to dialogue and directing actors)

Empire was excellent, but I still prefer Jedi for one primary reason: the space battle! Star Wars had lots of cool stuff in it, but starships flying around was always the most fun to me.

I'll also say, Lucas' writing and directing weren't his strongest suits, certainly, but his studio did have a way with special effects. I recently saw the 1980 Flash Gordon movie on TV, and if that's the level sci-fi movies were at in those days, I can see why Star Wars became as popular as it did.

The Crab clan has some excellent artistic taste. Their amateur dramatics, for example, appear to be great fun.

...I guess to bring the Star Wars discussion back around to the actual topic, as long as Lucas isn't writing the L5R story, we should be fine.

31 minutes ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

The Force Awakens is very much a flawed film as well, though mostly in different ways.

I actually love Jedi. The whole throne-room duel between Luke and Vader is by far the best of the SW films, at least form a dramatic and cinematography perspective. I don't even mind the Ewoks, really.

That said, Empire is easily the best-made film of the series. It has better writing, better acting, and mostly better pacing and plot than any of the rest. That's probably because Lucas didn't write the final script, or direct it (yes, there would be no Star Wars without Lucas, but he was far better for broad ideas than the particulars, especially when it comes to dialogue and directing actors)

TFA is flawed. I'm not going to go into a long list of why I think calling it a retread of ANH isn't right either. I've had that argument far too many times to have it again.

Also there have been three or four Female Thor runs, marvel renumberings!, so I don't know which you read, but the run I did, didn't have that.

11 hours ago, tenchi2a said:

First on the AEG side, I never got the feeling that L5R excluding people or made people feel unwelcome. The stories to me always seemed to have the right balance of female and male protagonist. While it was not always equal, it always seemed to be balanced.

There is a certain perception-media bias that causes people to think "wow, so many women characters!" as soon as 3 out of 9 characters are women. 3 out of 9 is still twice as much men as women. 50:50 is usually "too many" and spread where there are more women than men is surprising at best, feminismwrong at worst.

4 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Empire was excellent, but I still prefer Jedi for one primary reason: the space battle! Star Wars had lots of cool stuff in it, but starships flying around was always the most fun to me.

Starships swimming around is more like it. Star Wars space ships act more like underwater vehicles than spaceships. I'll never forget that ship tipping up and sinking into the planet at the beginning of episode 3

21 minutes ago, JRosen9 said:

Starships swimming around is more like it. Star Wars space ships act more like underwater vehicles than spaceships. I'll never forget that ship tipping up and sinking into the planet at the beginning of episode 3

Star Wars almost never pays attention to physics in space. The Executor's bridge was destroyed in RotJ and that means it heads down and plummets into the Death Star because.... gravity? A ship's engines dying in mid-flight and it grinds to a halt from all that.....air resistance?

6 minutes ago, Network57 said:

The Executor's bridge was destroyed in RotJ and that means it heads down and plummets into the Death Star because.... gravity?

More like 'destruction of main navigation controls'. It is actually quite reasonable that the helmsman's last action was to initiate a full dive in order to avoid Green Leader.

Edited by AtoMaki
1 minute ago, AtoMaki said:

More like 'destruction of main navigation controls'.

Yeah but if it's just sitting there in space, and the navigational controls get destroyed, it's pretty much going to continue to sit there. This isn't an airplane or a boat.

Just now, Network57 said:

Yeah but if it's just sitting there in space, and the navigational controls get destroyed, it's pretty much going to continue to sit there. This isn't an airplane or a boat.

See my edit.

11 minutes ago, Network57 said:

Star Wars almost never pays attention to physics in space. The Executor's bridge was destroyed in RotJ and that means it heads down and plummets into the Death Star because.... gravity? A ship's engines dying in mid-flight and it grinds to a halt from all that.....air resistance?

Clearly vacuums are much more dense in a galaxy far, far away.

8 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

More like 'destruction of main navigation controls'. It is actually quite reasonable that the helmsman's last action was to initiate a full dive in order to avoid Green Leader.

HA. I see it now.

Too much Star Wars talk; let's reel it back into Rokugan.

5 minutes ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

Too much Star Wars talk; let's reel it back into Rokugan.

You ever notice how some of the L5R writers treat Katana as if they were basically lightsabers?

Sorry; couldn't resist. Super-duper-powerful katana actually is / was an l5r trope though. Granted, it's a fantasy setting.

28 minutes ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

You ever notice how some of the L5R writers treat Katana as if they were basically lightsabers?

Sorry; couldn't resist. Super-duper-powerful katana actually is / was an l5r trope though. Granted, it's a fantasy setting.

Indeed, in RW history, katana varied widely in quality. A few were master-crafted weapons, capable of keeping a keen edge even while delivering hard strikes. Many, though, were of much more mediocre quality, because of issues with the quality of metal used and the fact that many historical weapon-smiths were just "good", or even "okay", in terms of their skill. And some katana were mainly decorative or ceremonial weapons, with aesthetics, rather than functionality, being of most importance.

As you note, though, Rokugan is a fantasy setting, so things get exaggerated for dramatic effect. Rokugani katana all tend to be extremely well-crafted weapons, with REALLY sharp edges, no flaws that would cause them to crack or break, and beautiful, all at once. Let's face it, though...a battle would be way less dramatic if, after a few strikes, our heroes had blades that were dull, nicked, cracked, missing tips, etc. "Grandfather's katana sucks, hand me that spear," just isn't a very stirring thing for one of our samurai to proclaim during a melee.

4 minutes ago, DGLaderoute said:

Let's face it, though...a battle would be way less dramatic if, after a few strikes, our heroes had blades that were dull, nicked, cracked, missing tips, etc. "Grandfather's katana sucks, hand me that spear," just isn't a very stirring thing for one of our samurai to proclaim during a melee.

What!? Less dramatic!? NO! :o

That would be absolutely great! Lets have less "magical-über-katana" and more visceral battles and dramatic tension where weapon break, armor get smashed and people **** themselves, please! Less katana, more spears and polearms, for Amaterasu's sake! Take a look at Bernard Cornwell, THAT's what I want!

19 minutes ago, DGLaderoute said:

Indeed, in RW history, katana varied widely in quality. A few were master-crafted weapons, capable of keeping a keen edge even while delivering hard strikes. Many, though, were of much more mediocre quality, because of issues with the quality of metal used and the fact that many historical weapon-smiths were just "good", or even "okay", in terms of their skill. And some katana were mainly decorative or ceremonial weapons, with aesthetics, rather than functionality, being of most importance.

As you note, though, Rokugan is a fantasy setting, so things get exaggerated for dramatic effect. Rokugani katana all tend to be extremely well-crafted weapons, with REALLY sharp edges, no flaws that would cause them to crack or break, and beautiful, all at once. Let's face it, though...a battle would be way less dramatic if, after a few strikes, our heroes had blades that were dull, nicked, cracked, missing tips, etc. "Grandfather's katana sucks, hand me that spear," just isn't a very stirring thing for one of our samurai to proclaim during a melee.

Ummmmmmmmmmm, Hattori Hanzo might say otherwise.... ;) :D

Edited by LordBlunt

Its a setting where long used familiar heirlooms literally awaken their spirit and become magic items. Of course the family sword is emphasized heavily.

In Rokugan, there is probably a "Matsu's Sword" equivalent of "Locke's Socks" thought exercise, looking at the fact that swords get constantly repaired and often whole parts of them get replaced in the process.

I think I fall on the less realistic side of the fantasy battle fence. Not really looking for dirt and gritty, blood and guts battle.

35 minutes ago, McDermott said:

Its a setting where long used familiar heirlooms literally awaken their spirit and become magic items. Of course the family sword is emphasized heavily.

Ok, but why not emphasize the family bow or the family naginata* more? You know, weapons that where actually used for war ...

*I instantly became a Doji Hotaru fan when I saw that she was a naginata user, needless to say.

26 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

I think I fall on the less realistic side of the fantasy battle fence. Not really looking for dirt and gritty, blood and guts battle.

Totally understandable. I just believe that when you have a a more grounded overall setting ("realistic" is too... controversial a word here), the "badass heroic wuxia" parts becomes even cooler . And if every katana is the sacred-grandpa's-katana , then no sacred-grandpa's-katana is special...

...I'm also just a fan of spears and polearms. :P

3 minutes ago, Mirumoto Saito said:

Totally understandable. I just believe that when you have a a more grounded overall setting ("realistic" is too... controversial a word here), the "badass heroic wuxia" parts becomes even cooler . And if every katana is the sacred-grandpa's-katana , then no sacred-grandpa's-katana is special...

...I'm also just a fan of spears and polearms. :P

I'm cool with other weapons. Just like cool stuff that does cool stuff. If I can just be totally useless in description.

I'm fine with the extreme, but I'm easy to please in way too many ways.

2 hours ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

Too much Star Wars talk; let's reel it back into Rokugan.

L5R and Star Wars both draw inspiration from the same genre, which is samurai epics (A New Hope can be considered a remake of the samurai movie Hidden Fortress...IN SPACE).

Therefore, comparison between the two is only natural.