If you used Vader Dark Apprentice ability would Vader take damage. My thinking is yes because of the way it's worded on the shuttle.

If you used Vader the Special is "Deal 3 damage to a character. Then deal 1 to this character" why wouldn't he take the damage too?

So, dumb question, but can I use Cunning against Vader(SoR) to deal 4 damage to him? His ability just says to "a character", it doesn't restrict it to a different/opponent's character, so I'm not sure why it wouldn't. It just seems like Cunning could tear this guy apart, and I don't remember whether or not Cunning works on characters' abilities, too...

You resolve EMO Vaders' ability as though it was yours, the yours in this case being the Character that has Cunning played on it. As such I think the intent there is you deal 3 damage as though you were Vader and you then take the point of damage. The only card that doesn't interact this way with Cunning so far is Holocron, because that would take a card from your opponent and put it into your hand and cause no end of potential problems.

When copying an ability, you copy the entire ability. Vader says deal damage to a character, then damage to this character. So that's what you do.

In the case of Cunning, you do exactly the same thing, just the person triggering Cunning chooses the target. Which means yes, you can do 3 damage to Vader (or someone else), and Vader (as 'this character') will take 1 damage.

1 hour ago, Abyss said:

When copying an ability, you copy the entire ability. Vader says deal damage to a character, then damage to this character. So that's what you do.

In the case of Cunning, you do exactly the same thing, just the person triggering Cunning chooses the target. Which means yes, you can do 3 damage to Vader (or someone else), and Vader (as 'this character') will take 1 damage.

And people still asks me why i still run 1 Cunning in my Poe/Maz

Cunning says, as if. So I would say that means you would take the damage (the ability becomes your ability). But... The shuttle says, use a special. meaning it's not borrowing the special. It's outright activating the special

I get that people are now saying I get all the bonuses without any of the negative, with cunning but . It really does say, I now have someone else's special for this one moment, not part of it.

Apprentice Vader is a trap as long as yellow characters are popular in the meta, which will be all the time. No matter who resolves Vader's special, it always deals 1 damage to Vader. If your opponent rolls a Cunning Special, they can deal 4 damage to Vader. Vader can deal damage quickly, so for opponents with double/triple color, it's probably good to focus on the yellow character first in most situations.

51 minutes ago, ozmodon said:

Cunning says, as if. So I would say that means you would take the damage (the ability becomes your ability). But... The shuttle says, use a special. meaning it's not borrowing the special. It's outright activating the special

The shuttle activates the special - all of the special. Vader takes Damage.

Cunning activates the special as well - Vader takes the damage.

No, it says "i now am in control of the card". The character that has Cunning equiped doesnt acquire that special, nor does cunning. It remains in the same place, in the same card. You just resolve it.

The part where it says "as if it was yours" is only important for the matter of who is "you" and who is "your opponent".

Cunning resolve as if it were yours so why is it only gaining half the special?

I'm sure if Vaider's card said deal 3 damage then gain 2 resources people would be looking at a differently. I will play it the way people want but where does Cunning say, take half the special and use it?

49 minutes ago, Willy Jarque said:

No, it says "i now am in control of the card". The character that has Cunning equiped doesnt acquire that special, nor does cunning. It remains in the same place, in the same card. You just resolve it.

The part where it says "as if it was yours" is only important for the matter of who is "you" and who is "your opponent".

It makes sense both ways to me but I get it the way you explained it. Thanks for debating it with me

I know it can be a little confusing the way it is written.

Let me put it this way: we know that, when you use cunning with a thermal detonator special, the card that is discarded is the detonator, as the RRG says. That only makes sense if the 'discard this card' effect of the detonator kind of "stays where it is". I mean, the Cunning special is resolving the other card special, not acquiring it.

So, the same applies to Vader.

25 minutes ago, Willy Jarque said:

Let me put it this way: we know that, when you use cunning with a thermal detonator special, the card that is discarded is the detonator, as the RRG says. That only makes sense if the 'discard this card' effect of the detonator kind of "stays where it is". I mean, the Cunning special is resolving the other card special, not acquiring it.

Yet if you play Cunning on Holocron you don't scoop up Holocron for yourself. As such about all that the FAQ provides is that Cunning may need to be constantly clarified because it has inconsistent rulings.

Cunning as written is I deal 3 damage with Vader's Special to your character and then take 1 damage to the character that had Cunning attached.

1 hour ago, Amanal said:

Cunning as written is I deal 3 damage with Vader's Special to your character and then take 1 damage to the character that had Cunning attached.

Just wrong. You deal the three to a character you choose and Vader takes 1 additional.

2 hours ago, Amanal said:

Cunning as written is I deal 3 damage with Vader's Special to your character and then take 1 damage to the character that had Cunning attached.

Sorry, but that's wrong.

You read it as changing cunning special to read as the other card special.

That's not what it says. It just says to resolve the other card special as if that card was yours (meaning that card was under your control, since "you" refers to you as a player).

No inconsistent ruling here. Do what the card says.

2 hours ago, Amanal said:

Yet if you play Cunning on Holocron you don't scoop up Holocron for yourself.

And this is another proof of not-inconsistent ruling.

You can't resolve Cunning with Holocron (it's not "playing but not scooping up", as you say) because that would end with you having another player's card in your hand, what is explicitly pohibited by the rules.

Thanks everyone, it makes sense. It basically says move the card over use the special then give it back. I guess magic has been around 25 + years we may as well use their model. They want it to function like cards in magic but have cards like Holocron. So 4 or 5 sets in and we will have a book of what does and does not work with cunning. Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thinks this is screwy.

Missed that myself, thanks guys.