Back in the days, I used to get rid of regen ship with ion cannons.

The point of rebel regen is to have that one regen ship in a favorable match-up end game. Your job is to either burn down that regen ship early or create an unfavorable match-up for it in the end game. That's pretty much it. That may be hard to do sometimes, but if it was easy, you probably wouldn't see anyone ever playing Rebels.

8 hours ago, fhdz said:

I mean, if you're trying to focus down the regen ship, those two or three random ships will be taking exactly the same shots on you regardless of whether or not they're flanking you. And I'm kinda curious what regen list has that many ships in it. Mostly I see three ship Miranda lists and two ship Poe/Norra/Corran lists.

Sorry if I gave the impression I meant flanking specifically. I meant what you're talking about: easy target selection.

As for ship counts, I'm running into more people working in Airen Cracken, Rex, and Snap Shot A-wings. All pretty cheap.

13 hours ago, Ailowynn said:

Regen is often frustrating because it maximizes variance. If Soontir gets lucky and escapes with one hull left, that means you only have to do one more damage to him. If Corran gets lucky and escapes with one hull left, you may have to kill him all over again. There are games where the regen player messes up but also happens to be lucky, and that can be pretty annoying to deal with.

The answer to regen, though, is pretty much 'fly better.' Corran, Miranda, and Poe all have one thing in common: they can die in one round, easy. The tricky part is setting up that round.

But corran doesn't have Autothrusters, can't token stack while simultaneously arc dodging and, importantly, costs approximately half of your 100 points.

Can't believe people still complain about regen in 2017. I could understand back in the days when an average ship with "good" offense would on average score 2.25 hits per attack it could be tough to kill a ship that regens 1 point of that damage and possibly mitigates another one. Though even back then shooting him with 2 ships kinda worked unless you got outplayed and he evaded you for several turns. These days you can expect ships to deal 3 or 4 hits over 80% of the time. 1 shield recovered is only a fraction of that damage, so regen is effectively weaker than it ever was. If you can't defeat it, you're just not playing well enough. Rule of the thumb: don't allow a situation where you're left 1 on 1 with a regen ship that's more expensive than what you've got. That's essentially the win condition for the regen player and if you let it happen, you can only blame yourself. In it's current state the game certainly does give you the tools to overcome regen lists.

I've had most trouble killing Corran who has ptl, advanced sensors and hull upgrade.

He can easily reposition when starting with a barrel roll and then go charging shields. And even if he doesn't, I have to chew 3 agility, evade and focus token. I've basically given up using 2 attack ships because of regeneration. Even if I manage to push some damage, he can also double shoot me at the same time.

Sure, I can ionize him if I hit or use Kylo or Wampa but it would be great to be able to do it with different ships.

In my opinion, regeneration should have some maximum cap.

3 minutes ago, Pretty Green said:

In my opinion, regeneration should have some maximum cap.

I'm all for this, but I think the majority of xwing players are against it.

I'd make it so you could regen as many times as your shield value, which is 3 on average. Could keep track of it similar to how gonk works.

Would be nice just to prevent constant hit and runs to get back all your shields before engaging again.

14 hours ago, Quarrel said:

2 torps rarely spike down a fresh K-wing or ARC in one turn. You have 8 dice to deal 9 damage with.

I can see 4 bombers landing 3 torps. One runs up and blocks the R1 zone of the back 3. Spread wide and staggered enough, nothing can dodge all of them.

3 Contracted Scouts have a harder time sparing bodies for blocking. 2 can't do it and still launch. I presume you have another ship run interference? Do your opponents NOT rush into Range 1 as an ordnance countermeasure?

And I worry about getting flanked because two or three random ships will kill pretty much anything in one or two turns of range 1-2 focused fire.Even a Falcon or Decimator will be almost dead.

It's 8 dice vs 9 HP behind 1Agi. With modifiers on both sides, you're probably looking at taking her to 2HP with the two shots. Even vague luck with the crit draw from the proton torps (because one will be a proton if you're doing it right), you'll either kill her outright, or set yourself up so that you can take her out with primaries next turn easily. Throw in Boba crew on the proton carrier and you can ditch the TLT altogether. Problem solved.

Seeing 4x Bombers do it isn't even as complicated as that. I've done it regularly without even attempting to block. It's not hard. R3 arcs are pretty **** wide. A simple line abreast formation is borderline unavoidable for her when lined up right.

3x Scouts have zero difficulty "sparing bodies" because, again, they don't have to block. Run them offset and getting into R1 of one means still being in R2 of two. So now you're at 2x four dice attacks, and a three dice attack, all modified vs a 1Agi ship. She's toast. At the absolute unluckiest for you, she's scraping out with maybe two hull. Clean it up next round and redirect fire.

I don't know what points level you're playing, or what lists you're playing against, but if you're against something with regen - like Miranda, since we're on that topic - the wingmen are less of a worry than she is. You. Still. Target. Her. First. "Two or three random ships" won't kill you, because regen ships are expensive and don't leave wiggle room for multiple heavy threats. One, sure. Two, really stretching it. Three, not a chance. The scariest I can think of are probably a Biggs/Jess combo, and Dash. Even then, ordnance does a serious number on both. Stress murders Dash, as do ions if you can double them up each turn.
Lets say you take, as you mentioned, 3x Scouts vs Miranda/Biggs/Jess. You chase down and nuke Miranda in a turn (seriously, that's more than possible). In that same turn, one of your Scouts is focused down and rolls literally nothing but blanks (because that's what it would take) on all four defence rolls (TLT, then the two X's), with the killshot coming from Jess, who also manages to land a Direct Hit (because again, that's what it would take). You're still in the lead, even with that outlandish bad luck. You've lost 33-35 points. They've lost their 50-ish point regen turret. You still have two torps left to murderise whomever you fancy first.

These aren't hypotheticals. This is honestly coming from experience, played games, and raw dice averages.

I don't want to sound like I'm having a go at you, but I really have to repeat this: regen isn't that strong. Part of the solution will be your list, and part will be your attack. If you want help with either or both, I'm happy to do so, but you really have to understand that first part; regen is not insurmountable. If it was, people wouldn't be screaming for an X-wing fix.

I guess also Black Market Slicer Tool would be also sweet to slash damage through the shields.

18 hours ago, Quarrel said:

Whenever I try to use low-PS torpedo carriers, I find that pretty much any ship simply charges me and goes from out-of-range to Range 1 in one turn, denying torpedo shots. Especially if my ship has a large base. This isn't just Miranda, it's basically everything. I've given up trying to make them work after zero launches in half a dozen games.

If this is consistently your issue, I would try taking R4 Agromech and expecting to not fire your torpedoes until after the first pass. I think usually people have a pretty good plan for how to be out of the Range 2-3 band initially, but let a couple of turns go by and you're more and more likely to have the opportunity, especially if you can use your offensive focus the round before to set up your TL for the torps.

You've got a white 2 Sloop + PWT, so unless you're unable to shoot the target you want due to bump or Biggs, using R4 to get your torpedo locks on your choice target should be pretty easy. But you may have to give up the "alpha" mindset.

10 hours ago, force kin said:

But corran doesn't have Autothrusters, can't token stack while simultaneously arc dodging and, importantly, costs approximately half of your 100 points.

I'm not saying he's broken by any means. I love flying him. But I also understand why other people don't like to face regen.

8 hours ago, Zazaa said:

I guess also Black Market Slicer Tool would be also sweet to slash damage through the shields.

Black Market Slicer Tools has a few problems:

-Illicit (Scum only)

-You lose your action and are vulnerable to counter attack.

-If Corran has advanced sensors and sticks to green moves, he will not be stressed.

It's frustrating that only a handful of ships are good against regeneration.

10 hours ago, Pretty Green said:

I've had most trouble killing Corran who has ptl, advanced sensors and hull upgrade.

He can easily reposition when starting with a barrel roll and then go charging shields. And even if he doesn't, I have to chew 3 agility, evade and focus token. I've basically given up using 2 attack ships because of regeneration. Even if I manage to push some damage, he can also double shoot me at the same time.

Sure, I can ionize him if I hit or use Kylo or Wampa but it would be great to be able to do it with different ships.

In my opinion, regeneration should have some maximum cap.

It does, that cap is called 3 shields, (4 if using a shield upgrade but in your case not).

Regen aka Blue tanks need to limit their exposure to damage so they can recover, where as the hard mitigation just needs to make sure their defenses (i.e. palp, evade token) are not overwhelmed to for which the current meta is designed to do just that. My only issue with regen given all the spoilers is that only 2 out of three factions can use that mechanic. I would be perfectly fine if it was say a single faction as a faction trait in limited capabilities which tends to be most of the case, but no there is one faction that is left out in the cold, and while I don't believe that the lack of regen is the sole reason it doesn't look good for any other.

But in the case everyone has their current petpeeves of the meta. For some it is Turrets that can reposistion and not be easily stressed. For me it is the dice locking mechanic that doesn't allow you to modify your dice or in some cases outright cancels your dice before you roll. For the OP it is ships that can regain hit points.

14 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

It does, that cap is called 3 shields, (4 if using a shield upgrade but in your case not).

Regen aka Blue tanks need to limit their exposure to damage so they can recover

Maybe you missed the point. You can regenerate that 3 shields over and over again, I was suggesting you could do it as many times as you have your original shield value. That would bring some balance to it without breaking the effect.

On 29/05/2017 at 2:43 AM, DaveRob said:

Predictability kills R2-D2...

...I'm not sure I have that upgrade card.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

...I'm not sure I have that upgrade card.

Advanced sensors and the ability to barrel roll before your move isn't very predictable.

10 hours ago, Pretty Green said:

Maybe you missed the point. You can regenerate that 3 shields over and over again, I was suggesting you could do it as many times as you have your original shield value. That would bring some balance to it without breaking the effect.

Maybe you missed the point. If it only worked once like Chewbacca, then it wouldn't be regen. It would only be adding hit points thus no longer a blue tank. Instead that would be a mere yellow tank.