Hi all,

I ´ve been thinking about how to give Vader and Ties in general have a good Mod choice that mirrors Autothrusters, but is based on only being given to ships with the Barrel Roll action. I´ d want it to be a tough choice for Interceptors (or other ships with both Boost and BR) to choose between this and Autothrusters. It should also cost two points...

I´ d be tempted to make it a R1/out of arc equivalent but then it would give Fenn Rau a ridiculous R1 defence in combination with his own ability so I feel that´ s not really going to help Vader if it helps his opponent more (although you could say that not having AT R3 defence balances the R1 Fenn Rau badassness).

What Mod would you design to help out the Barrel Rolling Ships under the conditions of costing 2 points and being competetive with AT? And what could be its name based on the properties of the ability? A heartwarming slap on the back for the post with the most recommends!

Thrust overcharger - 2 points

When defending, if you are not stressed, you may perform a barrel roll and turn one *blank* result into a *evade*. Then receive 2 stress.

You may only equip this if your action bar contains the barrel roll action.

something that gives a bonus only if you're in arc.

Wouldn't this be hard to balance with the Royal Guard Tie ? They'd have both Autothrusters and this. It might need more restriction.

You want to mirror Autothrusters then I'd propose something I'd call FAST BREAK . When within an attacker's firing arc and within Range 2 you may ... something to help your defense as you can break hard when the opponent fires. The Interceptor may be able to equip both but they should never overlap.

2 minutes ago, StevenO said:

You want to mirror Autothrusters then I'd propose something I'd call FAST BREAK . When within an attacker's firing arc and within Range 2 you may ... something to help your defense as you can break hard when the opponent fires. The Interceptor may be able to equip both but they should never overlap.

That might be a problem with Fenn again.

There should be a "similar" flavoured ability for Barrel rolling ships, I think it will be much harder to balance given the number of ships that can perform barrel rolls compared to those with innate boost actions. Anything which can increase the durability of a B-Wing is always worth a look. But, it would have to be small ship only, Jumps and YT-2400's don't need even more durability..

Just take AT, remove the "beyond range 2" part, and switch "boost" with "barrel roll".

Well, I suppose the question here is to what purpose? AT helps ships with native boost survive turrets and long-range engagements - probably because a lot of boost ships are lighter and faster ones, which might benefit from arc dodging, which is harder at longer ranges and impossible with turrets. It is an answer to kiting PWT ships.

So, what's killing Barrel Rollers, and how could a mod (or a EPT but, y'know, mod is better for parity with AT) produce a defensive effect similar to AT which gives them a benefit?

10 minutes ago, boomaster said:

That might be a problem with Fenn again.

There should be a "similar" flavoured ability for Barrel rolling ships, I think it will be much harder to balance given the number of ships that can perform barrel rolls compared to those with innate boost actions. Anything which can increase the durability of a B-Wing is always worth a look. But, it would have to be small ship only, Jumps and YT-2400's don't need even more durability..

Let's be honest here, most upgrades will find a specific pilot they may be "too good" with and you also have upgrades that closely resemble pilot abilities.

7 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

Just take AT, remove the "beyond range 2" part, and switch "boost" with "barrel roll".

The simplest solution might just be to add 'or the [barrel roll] action icon' to Autothrusters.

Honestly, I like the idea of combining the three ideas so far presented (edit: as I started typing this) ...

As a Mod name "Thrust ...." sounds better for engine reasons

2 pts: ¨"If defending at range 2 and in arc of the attacker, you may perform a free barrel roll action, if you do so you may change 1 blank evade into an evade result. You then receive 1 stress. Ony ships with Barrel roll.... "

Just now, TheHumanHydra said:

The simplest solution might just be to add 'or the [barrel roll] action icon' to Autothrusters. No problems with Fenn or Interceptors, accomplishes the goal of helping Vader, X-wings, Kihraxes.

Well, we don't want to give Jumpmasters and Dash access to AT. And making it small ship only kills Brobots. It would have to be a different card.

1 minute ago, defkhan1 said:

Well, we don't want to give Jumpmasters and Dash access to AT. And making it small ship only kills Brobots. It would have to be a different card.

Good call. Also, what I said about X-wings and Kihraxzes was nonsense, lol.

Of course, it would have to be small ship only.... I forgot about JMKs....

2 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:

Honestly, I like the idea of combining the three ideas so far presented ...

As a Mod name Thrust ... sounds better, where Fast Break is more apt for a Pilot skills...

2 pts: ¨"If defending at range 2 and in arc of the attacker, you may perform a free barrel roll action, if you do so you may change 1 blank evade into an evade result. You then receive 1 stress. Ony ships with Barrel roll.... "

"Attitude Control Thrusters"

Automated Evasion Computer.

If at range 1 or inside attacker's firing arc you may turn one hit into a blank. That die cannot be modified. You can only equip this if you have the <barrel roll> in your action bar.

2 points.

So yeah more or less a inverse of autothrusters. Can you imagine Fell with both?

2 hours ago, MaxPower said:

Thrust overcharger - 2 points

When defending, if you are not stressed, you may perform a barrel roll and turn one *blank* result into a *evade*. Then receive 2 stress.

You may only equip this if your action bar contains the barrel roll action.

2 hours ago, D00kies said:

Wouldn't this be hard to balance with the Royal Guard Tie ? They'd have both Autothrusters and this. It might need more restriction.

since Interceptors want to have PtL they are basically stressed every turn and they don't want to have 2 stress - So you will not see any Royal Guard Ties with 'Thrust Overchargers'

The trick is to look at the problem and work out what is really going on.

Autothrusters was given to allow high mobility ships (which tend to have Boost as a signature feature) the ability to better survive engagements against turreted craft, by handing out a deliberately undercosted defensive upgrade that rewards a ship for avoiding firing arcs - something to let arc dodgers be rewarded for actually, you know, dodging arcs.

It's so good it became stapled to almost everything that could take it, with only bottom-priced generic A-wings, TAPs, and Protectorates ever going without (where their price makes the autothrusters harder to justify).

If you want to give something similar to barrel rolling craft? That's a very different problem, and barrel roll is so common you should stop and think what this really means - is it that small ships in general now suffer? If so, maybe we should be thinking of solutions that don't leave X-wings and G1As even further behind in the dust in the name of buffing the Imperials. And consider: Is a defensive upgrade really what you want to hand Defenders? And the new Aggressors? Strikers?

There are balance issues in the current game, but I'm not sure it's ships with barrel roll specifically that are the ones suffering.

2 hours ago, Larky Bobble said:

Of course, it would have to be small ship only.... I forgot about JMKs....

I think you mean JMO9K

(JankMaster Over 9,000)

It´ s not a balance the game thread, only ideas for how a new upgrade could be implemented that helps (small) barrel rolling ships. The idea of the upgrade being a counterpoint to autothrusters, not much else....

Intensity

I'd say something like Expert Handling or Black One. Something that helps against all these Target Locks or in general supports you actually using the barrel roll action.

2 hours ago, RStan said:

I'd say something like Expert Handling or Black One. Something that helps against all these Target Locks or in general supports you actually using the barrel roll action.

Expert handling as a mod, but no stress. As long as Soontir keeps barrel rolling, he can't be shot by jumpmasters and their Torps. I like it. Doesn't overpower Fenn either, and doubt he would take it over autothrusters. This could actually help imperial quite a bit. Jumpmasters and K4 combo couldn't shoot at anyone as long as they barrel roll, leaving them with just 2 dice PWT.

Lateral Thrusters: Modification, 2pts. When defending, if you are beyond range 2 or outside the attacker's firing arc you may roll one additional defense die. You can only equip this card if you have the barrel roll action icon. You cannot equip Autothrusters as a 2nd modification.

This would completely wipe out stealth device for anything other than interceptors, but it is rarely used anyway.

I would say "Expert Handling"... Combined with Experimental Interface and there you go!

"Errata"

Action: Perform a free barrel roll action. If you do not have the action icon, receive 1 stress token.You may then remove 1 enemy target lock from your ship.