The Rebels are very limited with the options they can build viable lists around (C-3PO/Gideon, Jedi Luke, eRangers) but is there any hidden combination, or even on par with the Scum faction that would allow for a more competitve balance in the meta; also do others think like me and believe it's time to stop allowing "Temporary Alliance" from being used since all that does is exploit the already strong Scum faction (Empire at a much lesser degree)

I think Temporary Alliance should work only for non-unique units

Blocking Temporary Alliance isn't going to fix all the Rebel deployments that are way behind the current skirmish power curve. Nor will it lower the output potency of Scum/Imperial far enough down for the Rebels.

But, have hope! The development team is working on Rebel fixes. We can already tell there are new unique Rebel heroes properly adjusted to the Skirmish game. (Power Tokens in general will be huge buffs to existing Rebel non-uniques.) We can safely assume some more Force User options w/ Command cards and skirmish upgrades will be included with the new A&V wave.

The Rebel Alliance is gonna be great to play very soon. It does suck now to have to wait. Trust The Force.

I think a combination of Jedi Luke, Obi-Wan, eRangers and the Gideon-c3po pack is a very solid start for a nice list... Maybe with a eSmuggler?

FYI, Rebels are Scum.

[2] C-3P0
[3] C1-10P
[3] Jawa Scavenger [Elite]
[12] Luke Skywalker (Jedi)
[1] Motivation
[7] Obi-Wan Kenobi
[3] R2-D2
[8] Shyla Varad
[1] Temporary Alliance (M)

Rebels can definitely compete. I think Obi is a bit of a trap though and limits a lot of lists.

2 hours ago, Mep said:

FYI, Rebels are Scum.

[2] C-3P0
[3] C1-10P
[3] Jawa Scavenger [Elite]
[12] Luke Skywalker (Jedi)
[1] Motivation
[7] Obi-Wan Kenobi
[3] R2-D2
[8] Shyla Varad
[1] Temporary Alliance (M)

This is the thing I'm try to say without "Temporary Alliance" the lists that which Rebels can competively produce is limited; Jedi Luke, Obi-Wan, eRangers and the Gideon + C- 3PO combo is it. You can't use Han Solo, Chewbacca, Leia is a glass cannon, Lando is very situational; Jedi Luke and 3PO which seem like auto includes Rebels are nowhere like Scum or even Imperial lists.

19 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

This is the thing I'm try to say without "Temporary Alliance" the lists that which Rebels can competively produce is limited; Jedi Luke, Obi-Wan, eRangers and the Gideon + C- 3PO combo is it. You can't use Han Solo, Chewbacca, Leia is a glass cannon, Lando is very situational; Jedi Luke and 3PO which seem like auto includes Rebels are nowhere like Scum or even Imperial lists.

Guess you gotta wait a few more months then.

2 minutes ago, caseycheesecake said:

Guess you gotta wait a few more months then.

Thanks for the great insight.

Temporary Alliance and eJawa are great. Really opens up the list design. That list, while technically scum, is pretty much rebel. Not much different if you included Han, Chewie or Lando, who are known scoundrels. My advise is not to get caught up on the faction so much as to enjoy the models and the characters. Want on Imp droid list? Why not paint chopper in his imperial disguise, paint the HKs like imp security droids and Jabba can sport a clean white/gray/black look. Toss in a gray eJawa, R2 and a probe droid for good measure.

my rebels list lately has been luke, eRangers, gideon, 3PO, Chopper, Hera, and a smuggler. Son of Skywalker is the most powerful command card in the game right now, so competitively, you'll want to set yourself up to draw that. Devotion, planning, etc. balance of the force is great, and i think Rebel High Command is more valuable now that chopper makes it harder to just sit on a terminal. Mercs are probably the most powerful now, but you can win some matches and have fun with the rebels.

1 hour ago, Mep said:

Temporary Alliance and eJawa are great. Really opens up the list design. That list, while technically scum, is pretty much rebel. Not much different if you included Han, Chewie or Lando, who are known scoundrels. My advise is not to get caught up on the faction so much as to enjoy the models and the characters. Want on Imp droid list? Why not paint chopper in his imperial disguise, paint the HKs like imp security droids and Jabba can sport a clean white/gray/black look. Toss in a gray eJawa, R2 and a probe droid for good measure.

The issue the "Rebels" cannot really make a viable list without running TA or running Jedi Luke eRangers, C3PO/Gideon; those two options are very limiting and don't allow for any design space it's either or. Either you settle for a Jedi Luke, eRangers lists or and Temp Alliance. In comparison Scum and Imperial options are limitless.

@Cgriffith I wouldn't say limitless. There are a few strong figures people who are competitive will run. As the fixes come out, I am sure a few more figures will become available. The meta will take a few swings here and there as things come out. I believe this is deliberate on FFG's part as a way of soft rotation .... or I may be giving them too much credit. Either way, they seem to have a mind on fixing old figures.

I hope we see some new Rebel units in line with the quality of the scum stuff. People point to E-rangers and go they are hunters but they are also situational as opposed to E-weequays which just always work.. That said the new wave of stuff that has been previewed is hit and miss to me. Asoka looks great and on par with current power levels but that new quatermaster conehead person doesn't do much for me, seems damned expensive compared to what you get out of combat leaders like Terro.

On 5/27/2017 at 10:00 PM, Cgriffith said:

The issue the "Rebels" cannot really make a viable list without running TA or running Jedi Luke eRangers, C3PO/Gideon; those two options are very limiting and don't allow for any design space it's either or. Either you settle for a Jedi Luke, eRangers lists or and Temp Alliance. In comparison Scum and Imperial options are limitless.

I think the Rebels have a lot of interesting support characters. Hera and chopper have been solid additions to the faction in my early play. For now, Rebels are lacking in heavy hitters. They don't have many viable options outside of Luke and the eRangers. Regarding skirmish heros, Onar/Vinto/Shyla added more for the mercs than any previous expansion did for the Rebels. I think the HotE heros are going to provide some more usable choices for the rebellion. Couple that with a future Chewie/Han fix, and the Rebels will have a chance at 2018 worlds.

Nobody has mentioned that Ahsoka is on her way. I've proxied her into a rebel list and played a couple games - with no Jedi luke or e rangers and it's got a lot of potential. Throw in Obi for damage soaking/channeling the force and a good hit or two if you don't just rush him ahead. And I start the game with meditation on ahsoka first round. She can move six to eight and meditate or take a block token. Focus her up. And then round two move six, eight, or twelve and still attack. Or move six to eight and pummel to hit twice. Did that in one game on a bossk who dodged first attack - oh wait she makes him reroll. Got six damage through. Hit him again - another dodge! Oh she just doesn't care! 5 more damage through. Bossk gone in one activation. I'm really excited to see what else is in store for force user cards

21 hours ago, Masterchiefspiff said:

Nobody has mentioned that Ahsoka is on her way. I've proxied her into a rebel list and played a couple games - with no Jedi luke or e rangers and it's got a lot of potential. Throw in Obi for damage soaking/channeling the force and a good hit or two if you don't just rush him ahead. And I start the game with meditation on ahsoka first round. She can move six to eight and meditate or take a block token. Focus her up. And then round two move six, eight, or twelve and still attack. Or move six to eight and pummel to hit twice. Did that in one game on a bossk who dodged first attack - oh wait she makes him reroll. Got six damage through. Hit him again - another dodge! Oh she just doesn't care! 5 more damage through. Bossk gone in one activation. I'm really excited to see what else is in store for force user cards

Ahsoka looks interesting, and you're right that the unnannouced command cards could make her more interesting. From my initial glance, I don't know if she adds as much to the Rebels as Palpatine or Maul will to their factions for basically the same cost. Guess I'll need some play testing.

I think Ahsoka will be dynamite. That movement...oy!! And she has a similar effect to the Weequay Pirates' re-roll (either attack dice or defense dice) but it affects all dice...could be powerful.

But yeah, right now--and with the current map rotation which includes Jabba's Palace--I think that the Rebels have taken a step back. That's because their best Deployment group (after njnja Luke) is the eRangers, who are heavily gimped on that map because of the limited line of sight. Before the Jabba's Palace map I had great success using Jedi Luke, eRangers, Obiwan, Gideon, 3P0, rSmuggler, and RHC. DTDanix has convinced me (via a solid thwumping on Vassal!) that Obiwan isn't quite up to par, so if I were to play that squad again I'd use Hera instead, and then find a way to use those other points...perhaps with R2, or maybe even Mak, or find a way to get Murne in there, etc. There are options. Regardless, the eRangers are a big part of this squad and they're really hindered on the Jabba's Palace map, so if I was looking to be strongly competitive then I'd probably look elsewhere, at least for now.

I like the idea of bringing Luke into a Merc squad right now, though. Very cool. Expensive, but cool. But it could work....

yes

2 hours ago, thereisnotry said:

I think Ahsoka will be dynamite. That movement...oy!! And she has a similar effect to the Weequay Pirates' re-roll (either attack dice or defense dice) but it affects all dice...could be powerful.

i think affecting all attack die is probably worse than re-rolling a single dice. when you're re-rolling 1 or 2 die, and you get to pick out your worst result. It's good on the rare time when she rolls single 3 surges, but you're going to have to do some cost benefit/risk analysis to see if it's worth re-rolling an average attack.

3 hours ago, Fightwookies said:

i think affecting all attack die is probably worse than re-rolling a single dice. when you're re-rolling 1 or 2 die, and you get to pick out your worst result. It's good on the rare time when she rolls single 3 surges, but you're going to have to do some cost benefit/risk analysis to see if it's worth re-rolling an average attack.

That's true. It'll probably end up being a situation where the Ahsoka player would do well to pre-memorize the average (or is it mean? mode? median? lol) dice roll result from Blue/Green/Green dice so that he/she will know whether it's worth risking the reroll or not (assuming that the first roll doesn't get the job done).

I just made a quick look (http://mattyellen.github.io/imperial-assault-calculator/#/) and here's what I found for Ahsoka's Attack dice:

• Regular attack: (B/G/G): the middle value is 4 damage (62%) and 2 surges (42%)
• Focused attack: (B/G/G/G): the middle value is 5 damage (69%) and 3 surges (63%)

The same thing will hold true for the various defense dice results (much simpler, since you've usually just got 1 to work with). When I'm playing HKs or Weequays, I always ask my opponent to re-roll any 2-Block results, because there's a 3/6 chance that the new result will be lower than 2 Blocks (1, Block, 1 Block, 1 Evade), but only a 1/6 chance that the result will be higher than 2 Blocks. I almost never ask him to reroll a White die that isn't a Dodge, though.

6 hours ago, thereisnotry said:

But yeah, right now--and with the current map rotation which includes Jabba's Palace--I think that the Rebels have taken a step back. That's because their best Deployment group (after njnja Luke) is the eRangers, who are heavily gimped on that map because of the limited line of sight. Before the Jabba's Palace map I had great success using Jedi Luke, eRangers, Obiwan, Gideon, 3P0, rSmuggler, and RHC. DTDanix has convinced me (via a solid thwumping on Vassal!) that Obiwan isn't quite up to par, so if I were to play that squad again I'd use Hera instead, and then find a way to use those other points...perhaps with R2, or maybe even Mak, or find a way to get Murne in there, etc. There are options. Regardless, the eRangers are a big part of this squad and they're really hindered on the Jabba's Palace map, so if I was looking to be strongly competitive then I'd probably look elsewhere, at least for now.

I completely agree and this was part of the point I was making with Rebel limitations; Rebels are dependent on a few core mechanics (line of sight, being focused and being able to use both to optimum; and in the current meta/map the Rebels just cannot compete. In fact without certain components (in every Rebel list0 Rebels would be almost totally ineffective.

1 hour ago, thereisnotry said:

I just made a quick look (http://mattyellen.github.io/imperial-assault-calculator/#/) and here's what I found for Ahsoka's Attack dice:

• Regular attack: (B/G/G): the middle value is 4 damage (62%) and 2 surges (42%)
• Focused attack: (B/G/G/G): the middle value is 5 damage (69%) and 3 surges (63%)

This is why I think she's got so much potential. Her 4 damage and 2 surges is 6 and pierce 3. And focused that's 7 and pierce three with a surge to spare for going against white dice (or to get that damage token for the next attack). That will shred black dice (and even white dice). And she can reroll the dreaded dodge. You get her next to Vader focused and with a pummel (not hard if you meditate guaranteed first round with channel the force) and she can do some serious damage to him.

That calculator is awesome, but is anyone able to contact the maker?

I would really like to see it updated so that you can add negative modifiers also.

(i.e. -Dodge for the Hired Guns, -Damage for the Gamorreans, -Surge or Evade for Weakened)

13 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

I completely agree and this was part of the point I was making with Rebel limitations; Rebels are dependent on a few core mechanics (line of sight, being focused and being able to use both to optimum; and in the current meta/map the Rebels just cannot compete. In fact without certain components (in every Rebel list0 Rebels would be almost totally ineffective.

Have you tried playing the rebels? They have the best support figures in the game (regarding movement and access to focus and modifying dice) They have great defense figures and troopers. They have face-smashers and access to more command cards than any of the other factions. Give them a try, I feel like you're giving up before even playing the game. Sure they have some clunkers and some over-costed figures, but they also have some great figures and I'd prefer all the factions not being identical as I play them all.