Before I start, I must say I love the system! I even quite like the simplified trappings system, if you're prepared to make a few decisions. However some things are missing, horses etc being one of them that has been covered elsewhere. I have a Burgher character in my game, that took wealth 3 and has spent almost nothing of it. He has also been very clever at making the most possible money from all the scenarios we have done so far, by fair or larcenous methods, even though I have been keeping a tight rein on money. He wants to export coal from Ubersreik to Stromdorf, when the Gathering Storm comes out. However to do that, he needs to know the costs and carrying capacity of either a riverboat/ barge or pack mules, neither of which are covered. Unfortunately a direct comparison between V2 and V3 is not possible, as expensive items can vary the most, both in cost and encumbrance. Witness the the change in relative cost between leather, chain and plate armout, between V2 and V3! I am hoping YNNEN that there may be some more details in the Gamesmasters Kit or from other new products out soon. I am also hoping that Stromdorf may have some rundown warehouses with prices to match, when the Gathering Storm comes out. Any help here would be appreciated, particularly from the game designers.

hi

I am quite familiar with the inconsistencies between prices in 2e and 3e, as I tried to create an formula for converting prices to 3rd edition. Despite that, you can make an estimation or a proximity to what the price in 3rd edition would be. see hammerzeit for more info.

A river barge in 2e would cost 1,200 gc (or 288000 pennies) by multiplying the ammount in pennies with x 0,05 you get = 14440 p or 576 silver coins. or 6 gold crowns. A large river barge would cost 3 times as much or even 10 times as much.

mule is listed as 20gc (4800 pennies x 0,06 = 288p or 11,52 silver = 12s

I must admit that the system is flawed. if you think the prices is to low simply change the multipliers to x 0,08 or even to 0,09 or 0,10. If you think they are to high you can change the multiplier to x 0,04 or even 0,03

Good gaming

Mal Reynolds said:

ragnar63 said:

If I remember correctly a 18 yard keel would take 20,000 encumbrance units. since my original system would not support such high numbers, I would go with the default of x 0,05 = 1,000 Encumbrance for this current version. I would think that a mule could carry 30 -40 encumbrance (STR x 10), a wagon takes 1,500 enc or 75-90 enc. Your figures seems pretty good to me.

If you`re really into trade and commerce in the old world I would highly reccomend the WFRP companion of 2e. It includes some pretty detailed rules about trade, including a cool table: Trade hazards.

good gaming

I know the Warhammer companion well, and it was a great resource for doing trade, though the amount of money that could be made was a little mindboggling. Your figures for the encumbrance exactly mirror what I thought they should be, its great when great minds think alike. Cheers for assistance, Mal.

Thinking about it, the 1200 GC in the second edition, was for a 24 yard keel, the largest of standard barges. You could get bigger, but they were incredibly rare, unless you want to go for a Reikaak. I think 6GC for a 24 yard keel might be too low, a little too affordable. One way I found for converting money from the 1st and 2nd editions to 3rd was to turn the amount of gold into silver coins. That would make a 24 yard keel in 3rd edition 1200 silver or 12 GC, an 18 yarder would be 9GC. Those would be more reasonable, what do you think, Mal

Remember to check your prices with the daily/monthly/year income per social class table.

ragnar63 said:

Yes, going straight from silver when converting can save time, and gives a bit higher number. in this case it works better I think. I will propably do the same for expensive things. In a way your idea corrects some of the flaws when using my formula for high cost equipments. my system pretty much break down above 200gc.

And I agree that 12 gc would be a more reasonable price.

I am planning to convert all prices found in the Old World Armory to 3rd edition, but needs to improve my formula. and you have helped me greatly allready.
thanks.

Mal Reynolds said:

That sounds like it's off by a lot.

Check this out:

V2 Hand Weapon = 10gc

V3 Hand Weapon = 25s

If you use that as a baseline, the formula for converting V2 prices to V3 should be something like:

Convert gold crowns to silver, then multiply by 2.5

So a mule in V3 should cost more like 50s. A barge should cost about 30g.

yes you`re right.

there really is no good formula for converting prices from second edition to third edition. You can only do some estimates and applying common sense. Your formula is as good as mine, but they will all eventually break down, and generate numbers that at times is just plain wrong or off the scale.

I am working on converting the whole list found in Armory of the old world to 3e, since my players have began to complain a lot about the list. And doing so need a different approach to the predicament.

I`m thinking of comparing income levels of the different editions, and see if I can churn out some numbers there , and include some kind of basic cost formula, based on raw materials used in the product. I will try to avoid to over complicate things, and just fixed prices found in the rulebook as guideance for churning out other prices. I do hope that I can find an easy formula to apply to all old price lists, but if not I will have to do them over one by one individually.

Argh! If only FFG could release an extensive equipment list

I remember in the old V2 forum, there were a number of threads where the general consensus was that the prices in V2 were seriously screwy. What Jay and Co. have done I think is start to remedy that problem, however I think it may be work in progress, hence the very miniscule list of trappings in the core set. If you look at prices in terms of the brass, silver, and gold bands, then things tend to make more sense. A pint of ale, or enough food to survive a day hasn't really changed much between all three versions, being 1 bp and 5bp respectively, in all three versions. That is the brass layer. In the silver layer Mal's formula works reasonably well, up to about 200GC in V2 terms, and also with the proviso that if the item is more likely to be used by the gold layer, then the price will rise exponentially. Hence a rapier in V3 is much more expensive than a sword, than it was under V2. Likewise if you consider that leather is the armour of the brass layer, chainmail of the silver, and plate that of the gold layer, then that would explain why the price differential in V3 is a factor of 20 between each armour type, whereas in V2 it was in the low single figures. When you come to V2 prices over 200 GC, then you must really consider, which range band the item comes from. A peasant hovel at 90 sp would probably be too expensive, 45 would be more reasonable, while a small palace would be 750 gc if you use Dagobahdaves formula, when I suspect it should be four times that price, being a gold band item. A 24 yard keel at 12 GC makes more sense for the silver tier, while a gold tier noblemans barge probably would cost 30 gc, or more. A lot of thought will need to go into a new Old World Armoury, as direct conversion beween V2 and V3 will not necessarily work, depending on which status band, the item is for.

Prices and equipment are one of those areas that I almost always house rule regardless of the system. I have a great old book called "And a Ten Foot Pole" from Rolemaster that has tons of information on hundreds items and a consistent cost system. I generally just import that system directly.