I've not too often used Heavy Stormtroopers in campaign, but I'm planning on bringing them to my next mission, and it looks like it might spell disaster for my Rebels.

A couple of notes:

1) I'm using the Armored Onslaught class

2) Heroes have earned rEchobase Troopers, but my plan does not hinge on whether or not they bring them. In fact, bringing them helps, but is not necessary.

Basically, here's the deal- After the first Rebel activation, I'm hoping, and assuming that out of all of the Imperial targets available, my rHeavy Stormtroopers (who I'm bringing in as an open group, at the optional deployment at the beginning of the mission) are still around. The first one, already in range of the Rebel Heroes, will call in a Mortar, dealing up to 3 damage to each hero/ally on or adjacent to the space called in on. Then, I'll have that heavy and the other one in the squad attack, also utilizing Explosive Munitions. That's a total of Blast 3 if all targets hit, plus whatever damage the mortar does. In a best case scenario, I could have dealt 6 damage to up to 3 Rebel heroes (assuming the first to activate didn't move too far) and possibly allies if they brought them... plus, the direct damage from the heavies attacks, which we haven't even accounted for yet. All within my first activation.

Seems pretty brutal to me. Granted, I'd imagine my Rebels will quickly try to spread out to avoid this happening again, but that's some pretty serious damage that they're going to have to deal with. Also, I totally realize this is a best case scenario, but even if I manage to get 3-4 splash damage plus some direct attack damage on multiple heroes in a single activation I'll be happy.

I just find it interesting that I've never tried this rather obvious strategy before. I wonder why Heavy Stormtroopers don't seem as popular as the other standard stormtrooper.

Well, the main problems they have are:

1. Blast is usually better for the Rebels than it is for you, since it's usually better to focus on one Rebel rather than several. Also the Rebels often spread out after the initial deployment. It's better when the Rebels take allies though.
2. They're slow, and can easily fall behind the Rebels on bigger maps.
3. Their damage is fine, but less than what 3 stormtroopers can do with rerolls
4. The Elites are very strong, but only if you have a way of granting them extra surges through focus, bonus surges, etc.

Good points. I might try bringing them in as open groups when I can immediately deploy them, so as to get those brutal key blasts in before the Rebels can spread out, but not prioritize reinforcing them.

Yeah, the first imperial activation is a the best time to use them.

I feel like most class decks have a card that makes them better, but their 3 speed is an annoying weakness to have. Their dice just don't have enough surge potential to trigger blast without help. Unfortunately I don't think Armored Onslaught can provide that help (surges).

That said, get one within two and throw two red dice at the Rebels. It's like a Hand Cannon with +1 acc. Also, with Armored Corps they can become good support units for Stormtroopers, and eWGs - AC will trigger since they're HEAVY WEAPONS and Squad Training since they're TROOPERS.

Yeah, to echo the others, using them early and getting a blast on a group is nice assuming they don't have MHD-19 and his bacta radiator to clean up chip damage.

They are a little weak for their points but if the Rebels are reliably killing regular troopers, like Shayla's cleave 3, their extra toughness can compensate for their lower damage. If they're getting one-shot though, then they're a fair bit worse.

I'd say that if you get all that to work it'll test their resolve.

dont rely on getting surges from the heavies for their own blast though. They're few and far between.

Honestly, heavies are my favorite unit. They look cool, can deal good (single target) damage, and help mitigate the effects of cleave and blast.

Shame their armor ability rarely happens.

Hmm, hadn't even considered the issue of getting surges on blue and red.

One big issue with using red/red on this particular mission is the fact that there are automatic penalties to all ranged attacks (-2 accuracy). Don't think I'll go that way until the penalties go away.

Hopefully we'll end up playing this mission soon- I'll report when we do.

I liked Heavies when playing Armored Onslaught also. I played around with splash damage quite a bit which is a big part of this deck. I think splash damage has three benefits: 1) you get a head start on taking down a particular rebel (perhaps with some options), 2) the blast damage can act like a stun since the rebels will be tempted to heal it and 3) blast damage can be a great way to get a head start on allies without taking an action. I agree that heavies are a little surge poor, they only have a 45% change of 1 surge with the blue/red combo. That being said, I know I was able to trigger blast along with explosive munitions more than once. I will say that the composite armor is pretty underwhelming, I don't think it ever triggered partly because I'd often have them on the front lines using the R/R dice combo. But they do have pretty good health for a cost of 6. Certainly the 3 speed is the biggest drawback to them, so you need to plan accordingly. Thematically they are great for armored onslaught.

I had plans to use Elite Heavy Stormtoopers in my current play by forum campaign using the Inspiring Leadership class deck. I had just acquired Lead by Example which, combined with both Field General and Field Officer, I was hoping to get 4 attacks off in their activation and maybe Blast the heroes on and adjacent to the entrance. Unfortunately, Verena had a string of lucky rolls which allowed her to kill one of my Elite Heavies in the Rebels' first activation which ruined my plans, oh well. You can relive my bad luck here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25520395#25520395

OK, as far as reliving glory days: One of my favorite moments with Armored Onslaught was when my rebels decided to bring Leia into a mission. It just happens that when resolving my additional deployment and spending my Leia-threat, I was able to reduce the cost of my tank by 3 (thanks to the Bombardment agenda card) and was able to drop my tank right next to the rebel deployment point. My tank survived the first rebel activation and then returned fire with a double attack targeting Leia. I used Explosive Munitions and the tanks built in blast to hit all adjacent hero's. End result, Leia was gone before her first activation and all the Rebels had taken a pretty good hit (3 DMG each). Next up was my heavies + Mortar:)

OK, this was a little cruel I admit. But they are a tough group and need a little bruising now and then:)

You're living the dream, Kazo. I can only hope to be so lucky.

I used Heavy Stormtroopers extensively during my recent Twin Shadows game and even with Tech Superiority (+1 surge, take 1 damage), I was only able to get their blast off once the entire campaign. It may have just been that the Rebels had a particularly good source of Evades (armor, 3P0, White defense dice, etc.), but I think their dice just make surges unlikely. They do good damage though.

I also had the Agenda card that lets you move three units spaces at the end of the turn, allowing me to reposition them to catch up and mitigate some of their speed issues.

18 hours ago, LegoMech said:

I used Heavy Stormtroopers extensively during my recent Twin Shadows game and even with Tech Superiority (+1 surge, take 1 damage), I was only able to get their blast off once the entire campaign. It may have just been that the Rebels had a particularly good source of Evades (armor, 3P0, White defense dice, etc.), but I think their dice just make surges unlikely. They do good damage though.

I also had the Agenda card that lets you move three units spaces at the end of the turn, allowing me to reposition them to catch up and mitigate some of their speed issues.

I love heavies, especially early-on in campaigns where the heroes struggle to put out reliable damage. 6 threat is usually doable and 6 health is worlds better than the 3 health on normal stormies. I tend to look at Blast more as a novelty that's fun when it goes off, but primarily they're there to deal damage. They're damage isn't stellar against black die heroes, but against white die heroes (and there are a lot of those), their red die is a real pain and they have enough accuracy to remain a threat even with their slower speed. I tend to shuffle between Heavies, Elite Weequays, and normal Gammoreans as my go-to open group in the early campaign.

I haven't played them with Tech Superiority, but I have with Military Might, and both "Show of Force" (0xp) (exhaust for a free Focus) and "Shock Troopers" (2xp) (apply +1 surge when attacking a target within 2 spaces) can make that Blast a lot more dependable (although the spacing for "Shock Troopers" can be troublesome at times). The +2 Health boost from the "Assault Armor" (2xp) Attachment can make them very difficult to table early on, and the +1 Block, +2 Accuracy, and +1 Damage from the "Combat Veterans" (4xp) Attachment is quite strong, too. Imperial Black Ops also has some neat tricks: a free surge from Hidden ("In the Shadows" (0 xp), "Shadow Corps" (1 xp)) makes it much easier to trigger Blast as well, "Surprise Attack" (2xp) makes them very good snipers (minimum 6 accuracy with +1D), and the ability to swap Hidden for Focus with "Versatility" (4xp) can improve damage (and Blast) tremendously, especially if paired with "Execution Squad" (3xp) to trigger Blast twice.

3 hours ago, Rythbryt said:

Imperial Black Ops also has some neat tricks: a free surge from Hidden ("In the Shadows" (0 xp), "Shadow Corps" (1 xp)) makes it much easier to trigger Blast as well, "Surprise Attack" (2xp) makes them very good snipers (minimum 6 accuracy with +1D), and the ability to swap Hidden for Focus with "Versatility" (4xp) can improve damage (and Blast) tremendously, especially if paired with "Execution Squad" (3xp) to trigger Blast twice.

I had wanted to try out execution squad with the heavies when playing this deck. Instead I purchased the reinforcements card and then only rolled enough surges to use it once:( Elite heavies or elite stromtroopers would have been fun with execution squad I think.

18 hours ago, VadersMarchKazoo said:

I had wanted to try out execution squad with the heavies when playing this deck. Instead I purchased the reinforcements card and then only rolled enough surges to use it once:( Elite heavies or elite stromtroopers would have been fun with execution squad I think.

Yeah... I found that card hard to pull off, too. In retrospect, it seems like a card that's designed for some very particular units like Blaise, who rolls lots of surge dice and don't really have great combat surge abilities (though Blaise's Menace is pretty good as a throw-in surge ability). Maybe regular probes? If they didn't cost 3 threat and melt like butter in the mid-to-late game?

18 hours ago, VadersMarchKazoo said:

I had wanted to try out execution squad with the heavies when playing this deck. Instead I purchased the reinforcements card and then only rolled enough surges to use it once:( Elite heavies or elite stromtroopers would have been fun with execution squad I think.

I could definitely see that being an issue. Versatility could possibly help.

Given the option between Focus and Hidden with Versatility, what would you pick? One guarantees a surge if wanted, the other has a 50% chance of giving a surge, but also has a chance of doling out damage.

3 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

I could definitely see that being an issue. Versatility could possibly help.

Given the option between Focus and Hidden with Versatility, what would you pick? One guarantees a surge if wanted, the other has a 50% chance of giving a surge, but also has a chance of doling out damage.

I love Versatility. To me it's the gem of the Black Ops deck and an auto-include. Hidden is a somewhat weak condition otherwise in my opinion. The minus 2 accuracy rarely does much on smaller maps (maybe better on Hoth?). Not only that, but it goes away after the attack anyways so you might as well make it count. To me, adding dice is one of the best things you can do in this game. I purchased the 1 XP that give the special action: hidden figures gain - choose an adjacent figure and that figure becomes focused. Then I could deploy a regular trooper group, focus the first one with the 0 XP card and then start the hidden train. Three focused troopers in a single activation is a sure way to take down a rebel quick! The trick is that this only works if you can deploy or preposition in a way that doesn't require a move. In general, I probably triggered 3-6 focused attacks per round using this deck. I also chose agenda cards, deployment cards (like ISB infiltrators and Weequays) and xp upgrades to maximize getting hidden. Even so, it wasn't OP and the campaign was about an even split between the rebels and imperial.

Edit: In spirit of the topic - I didn't use Heavy troopers with Imp Black Ops since it didn't seem very thematic nor would it have been synergistic. I think Heavies are much better when playing Armored Onslaught or Military Might.

Edit edit: My 2-year old thinks that Heavy Stormtroopers work the best with the "Baze Cannon" sound effect in the SW app (sound board).

4 hours ago, Rythbryt said:

Yeah... I found that card hard to pull off, too. In retrospect, it seems like a card that's designed for some very particular units like Blaise, who rolls lots of surge dice and don't really have great combat surge abilities (though Blaise's Menace is pretty good as a throw-in surge ability). Maybe regular probes? If they didn't cost 3 threat and melt like butter in the mid-to-late game?

I think part of it was (un)luck of the dice. I was rolling with probe droids and several times got the worst outcomes.

7 minutes ago, VadersMarchKazoo said:

I think part of it was (un)luck of the dice. I was rolling with probe droids and several times got the worst outcomes.

Yipes. Yeah, luck's definitely a thing...

2 minutes ago, VadersMarchKazoo said:

I love Versatility. To me it's the gem of the Black Ops deck and an auto-include. Hidden is a somewhat weak condition otherwise in my opinion. The minus 2 accuracy rarely does much on smaller maps (maybe better on Hoth?). Not only that, but it goes away after the attack anyways so you might as well make it count. To me, adding dice is one of the best things you can do in this game. I purchased the 1 XP that give the special action: hidden figures gain - choose an adjacent figure and that figure becomes focused. Then I could deploy a regular trooper group, focus the first one with the 0 XP card and then start the hidden train. Three focused troopers in a single activation is a sure way to take down a rebel quick! The trick is that this only works if you can deploy or preposition in a way that doesn't require a move. In general, I probably triggered 3-6 focused attacks per round using this deck. I also chose agenda cards, deployment cards (like ISB infiltrators and Weequays) and xp upgrades to maximize getting hidden. Even so, it wasn't OP and the campaign was about an even split between the rebels and imperial.

I agree 100%. The free focus from Hidden is better than nothing, but with heavy stormies rolling a Red and Blue die, there's no guarantee that they'll force a surge past a hero's defense dice (especially if the hero rolls White, has a free Evade from an xp card, etc.). I'd rather take the Red-Green-Blue, which also isn't guaranteed to land a surge for Blast, but has a much better chance at forcing more damage through (while improving Blast chance).

5 minutes ago, Rythbryt said:

I agree 100%. The free focus from Hidden is better than nothing, but with heavy stormies rolling a Red and Blue die, there's no guarantee that they'll force a surge past a hero's defense dice (especially if the hero rolls White, has a free Evade from an xp card, etc.). I'd rather take the Red-Green-Blue, which also isn't guaranteed to land a surge for Blast, but has a much better chance at forcing more damage through (while improving Blast chance).

If you are just going by probabilities of getting 2 surges:

R/G/B has a 25% chance of 2+ surges.

B/G + hidden has a 45% chance of 2 surges (rolling one). So if you just want to trigger blast and are worried about a surge block, then use hidden I guess.