My group and I are in our second Corellian Conflict. I'm having a great time with it. Some of us are adding narrative elements of it, which we share with each other on our Facebook group. As always, I'm interested in seeing what might be done to make it a little more interesting still.

I imagine that at some point we'll want to make alternate maps, with different systems in different parts of the known galaxy.

But what sorts of things are you all thinking about as the next stage?

I'm working on a totally different campaign, taking most of the CC but changing rules. If the CC is a campaign of resource attrition and base conquering, then my campaign will be one of strategic strikes and asset assassination.

I'm working on CC 'hard modes' that give one side an almost overwhelming advantage right out of the gate.

17 minutes ago, ianediger said:

I'm working on CC 'hard modes' that give one side an almost overwhelming advantage right out of the gate.

How does that work? One side starts with 500 point fleets? Double the income? All the best planets?

I'm trying to write up alternative rules where the Rebels start with more points, but field smaller fleets (2 250 pointfleets) and the Imperials start at a single 400 fleet. The focus is on objectives rather than huge fleet battles.

1 hour ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

How does that work? One side starts with 500 point fleets? Double the income? All the best planets?

So far, for the Rebel hard mode, Imperials start with 450, but Interdictors are not allowed, and the Rebels start with 350, but they can not have Large ships to start with. The Rebels also are not constrained by the one upgrade rule. Rebels also can not build bases, and have a chance of losing their reinforcements before they add them to their fleet.

1 minute ago, ianediger said:

So far, for the Rebel hard mode, Imperials start with 450, but Interdictors are not allowed, and the Rebels start with 350, but they can not have Large ships to start with. The Rebels also are not constrained by the one upgrade rule. Rebels also can not build bases, and have a chance of losing their reinforcements before they add them to their fleet.

Interesting. And how does it go from there? Standard CC progression?

1 minute ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Interesting. And how does it go from there? Standard CC progression?

Basically, the basis is that the Empire has surrounded the system with Interdiction fleets. The Rebels can attack the fleets to help get reinforcements in. The Imperials can secretly make two of the systems that they have bases in 'staging systems', where if a Rebel player declares an assault against it, the Imperial player can defend with two fleets.

Otherwise, it progresses like a normal game of CC.

2 hours ago, Nostromoid said:

I'm working on a totally different campaign, taking most of the CC but changing rules. If the CC is a campaign of resource attrition and base conquering, then my campaign will be one of strategic strikes and asset assassination.

I agree that CC is geared towards resource attrition. As someone who is an enthusiast for astrocartography, I'm a little disappointed that it does not really matter where planet/bases are in relation to one another. At the same time, it seems that they way that hyperspace has been presented recently, that may actually be true to new canon.

But I like what you say about strategic strikes and asset assassination. That sounds to me like a way in which Imperial Assault or X-Wing might be incorporated into the game (something that I've been warned not to think about).

Please tell me more! (You think about it, so that I don't have to.)

1 hour ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

I'm trying to write up alternative rules where the Rebels start with more points, but field smaller fleets (2 250 pointfleets) and the Imperials start at a single 400 fleet. The focus is on objectives rather than huge fleet battles.

If the point of the campaign is to give narrative stakes to games of Armada - to keep games of Armada as the dramatic focal point - how might your scheme make the game better?

2 hours ago, ianediger said:

I'm working on CC 'hard modes' that give one side an almost overwhelming advantage right out of the gate.

As an Imperial - who presumes that the deck would start stacked in the Empire's favor - I like the sound of that. But how do you prevent a slippery slope, which would make it increasingly less fun for the losing side?

6 minutes ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

As an Imperial - who presumes that the deck would start stacked in the Empire's favor - I like the sound of that. But how do you prevent a slippery slope, which would make it increasingly less fun for the losing side?

Still working on that. Probably that destroying bases gives resource points as well as campaign points, with staging systems giving a bonus over the normal base destruction.

One way to reflect advantage is to skew the order in which battle locations are selected by allowing the winning side to spend a campaign victory point to take the initiative at the start of a campaign turn. You can also use this location generator that was a rather interesting way to divide the map vs picking spots.

1 hour ago, Wes Janson said:

One way to reflect advantage is to skew the order in which battle locations are selected by allowing the winning side to spend a campaign victory point to take the initiative at the start of a campaign turn. You can also use this location generator that was a rather interesting way to divide the map vs picking spots.

I definitely like the idea of changing up the base selection method. Random assignment is certainly a very straightforward way to mix that up. Maybe that creates a bias, but hopefully not too biased most of the time.

However, I wonder if there is not a way that would better capture the nature of the Galactic Civil War. Some of the planets in the sector are more human-dominated than others (e.g. Corellia vs. Duro). It should be harder - or more costly - for the Empire to establish and maintain control over alien worlds than over human worlds.

Hm, I think the sort of things I would like are aspects that greatly complexify the campaign. While the Corellian Campaign, as it is, is fairly simple conceptually, real players live real lives, and don't always have the opportunity to keep tabs on all the different things - especially when it comes to checking their compatriots and opponents potential clerical errors. Having an online spreadsheet is really helpful in this regard, but even that has its limitations.

I wonder if an online engine, which might introduce some random variables and effects, would be a great way to complexify the campaign, but at the same time not burden the players with the clerical organization of it.

20 minutes ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

I wonder if an online engine, which might introduce some random variables and effects, would be a great way to complexify the campaign, but at the same time not burden the players with the clerical organization of it.

Don't tempt me man, I already have a ton of game ideas I wish to create. . . you're just adding fuel to the flames. . . .

*Comfortingly* "Someday, someday. . ."

4 hours ago, ianediger said:

So far, for the Rebel hard mode, Imperials start with 450, but Interdictors are not allowed, and the Rebels start with 350, but they can not have Large ships to start with. The Rebels also are not constrained by the one upgrade rule. Rebels also can not build bases, and have a chance of losing their reinforcements before they add them to their fleet.

4 hours ago, ianediger said:

Basically, the basis is that the Empire has surrounded the system with Interdiction fleets. The Rebels can attack the fleets to help get reinforcements in. The Imperials can secretly make two of the systems that they have bases in 'staging systems', where if a Rebel player declares an assault against it, the Imperial player can defend with two fleets.

Otherwise, it progresses like a normal game of CC.

Thematically this all sounds cool and the idea of a "hard mode" is pretty neat. Also seems like you have some cool ideas for mixing up the CC campaign.

But it also sounds like an absolutely miserable time for the Rebel players.

3 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Thematically this all sounds cool and the idea of a "hard mode" is pretty neat. Also seems like you have some cool ideas for mixing up the CC campaign.

But it also sounds like an absolutely miserable time for the Rebel players.

Unless, of course, the Rebel players are the more skilled of the players, thereby offsetting the inherent advantage a little (but not completely)

4 hours ago, ianediger said:

Still working on that. Probably that destroying bases gives resource points as well as campaign points, with staging systems giving a bonus over the normal base destruction.

I wonder if it's possible to come up with an asymmetrical goal. Use the Rebellion board game as an example: The Empire's goal is to find and destroy the Rebel base. The Rebellion's goal is to last to the end of the game, and can take actions to shorten the game, increasing their chance of victory. Actually similar concept to Return of the Jedi: the Rebel Fleet didn't defeat the Imperial Fleet, it just lasted long enough for the Death Star to be destroyed.

Could an Armada campaign be the same? An overwhelming Imperial military that wins by destroying the Alliance, and a Rebellion force that wins by staying operational long enough to complete objectives?

1 hour ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Unless, of course, the Rebel players are the more skilled of the players, thereby offsetting the inherent advantage a little (but not completely)

Maybe? Hopefully.

450 gives Imperials a lot of power to absolutely smash a 350 rebel fleet every time. Possibly before the rebels get a chance to hyperspace retreat.

Just now, Derpzilla88 said:

Maybe? Hopefully.

450 gives Imperials a lot of power to absolutely smash a 350 rebel fleet every time. Possibly before the rebels get a chance to hyperspace retreat.

I agree. Although I guess the fact that the rebels aren't restricted to 1 upgrade per fleet also helps.

Deeeaaaaattthhhhh.

I have a completely revamped the Corellian campaign and constructed it to be a bit more of a "realistic" feel to it. There will be many more special missions and ships will actually have ground assault points and bases will have to actually be assaulted by troops.

Every mission will have a cost in resources depending on the ships you send out and there will be a split between ships carrying capacity and command of squadrons. So squadrons that are carried in ships have zero resource cost (on missions) while squadrons that jump with the fleet from a base will have slight resource cost for the mission just like any other ship. The carry capacity and squadron command will not be the same on ships. Some ships will have larger capacity such as the ISD and many lower or none at all, not every ship can carry fighters or utility crafts (these hangars will actually differ).

Ships will not be able to perform missions with impunity, there will be a range from any base from which they are stationed that they can perform missions. There will be quite different mechanics guiding the rebels and imperial forces which include mission types and how they establish bases and presence in systems. The Rebels will only ever have ONE base and the Imperial side will have three main bases. The Imperial forces will establish military bases to subjugate systems while the rebels create outposts and diplomatic relations to gain support from systems.

Named Commanders will only command larger fleets and do so quite rarely, mainly because of the cost of deploying them for most missions. Minor fleets are always commanded by a named Officer which you may only have ONE in any give Task-force. Each minor task force have a maximum command capacity of seven. Full fleets have a capacity of 15 and you can add up to two minor task-forces but such monumental armadas will be very expensive to move around.

Ships will have new stats such as Carrying Capacity and Assault Points and the actual points cost of ships will be altered a bit as well. Actual battles and fleet point will have no real relevance, it is only a ships cost to buy and repair that matters which will also be slightly different.

The game will much be about resource management as much as about tactical and strategic wielding of the forces. Campaign points can also be spent to buy reinforcement from outside and local resource points can never by new ships that have more than one command point. So if you want a new larger frigate or cruiser you need to spend any earned campaign point as a sort of political currency to receive reinforcement.

First side that reach 20 Campaign point will win or if either loose all of their bases. The Rebels can easily move their base of attacked so it will be hard to destroy. The imperial side only have three main bases and must protect them and they are known from the start to the Rebels.

Squadrons will not actually be worth any victory points in battles and quite cheap to replace in comparison to ships. Aces will actually have a chance to die permanently. Also no task-force can have more than one Ace, one named Officer and one named famous squadron present.

These are only some of the things that I have changed for this campaign... ships will really be an important asset and players should do whatever it takes to not loose them or it will go down hill fast. Fighters on the other hand will become rather expendable in comparison. But you need ships to actually claim, patrol and hold on to areas.

33 minutes ago, jorgen_cab said:

I have a completely revamped Corellian campaign constructed that will have a bit more of a "realistic" feel to it. There will be many more special missions and ships will actually have ground assault points and bases will have to actually be assaulted by troops.

Every mission will have a cost in resources depending on the ships you send out and there will be a split between ships carrying capacity and command of squads. So squadrons that are carried in ships have zero resource cost (on missions) while squadrons that jump with the fleet from a base will have slight resource cost for the mission just like any other ship. The carry capacity and squadron command will not be the same on ships. Some ships will have larger capacity such as the ISD and many lower or none at all, not every ship can carry fighters or utility crafts (these hangars will actually differ).

Ships will not be able to perform missions with punity, there will be a range from any base from which they are stationed that they can perform missions. There will be quite different mechanics guiding the rebels and imperial forces which include mission types and how they establish bases and presence in systems. The Rebels will only ever have ONE base and the Imperial side will have three main bases. The Imperial forces will establish military bases to subjugate systems while the rebels create outposts and diplomatic relations to gain support from systems.

Named Commanders will only command larger fleets and do so quite rarely, mainly because of the cost of deploying them for most missions. Minor fleets are always commanded by a named Officer which you may only have ONE in any give Task-force. Each minor task force have a maximum command capacity of seven. Full fleets have a capacity of 15 and you can add up to two minor task-forces but such monumental armadas will be very expensive to move around.

Ships will have new stats such as Carrying Capacity and Assault Points and the actual points cost of ships will be altered a bit as well. Actual battles and fleet point will have no real relevance, it is only a ships cost to buy and repair that matters which will also be slightly different.

The game will much be about resource management as much as about tactical and strategic wielding of the forces. Campaign points can also be spent to buy reinforcement from outside and local resource points can never by new ships that have more than one command point. So if you want a new larger frigate or cruiser you need to spend any earned campaign point as a sort of political currency to receive reinforcement.

First side that reach 20 Campaign point will win or if either loose all of their bases. The Rebels can easily move their base of attacked so it will be hard to destroy. The imperial side only have three main bases and must protect them and they are known from the start to the Rebels.

Squadrons will not actually be worth any victory points in battles and quite cheap to replace in comparison to ships. Aces will actually have a chance to die permanently. Also no task-force can have more than one Ace, one named Officer and one named famous squadron present.

These are only some of the things that I have changed for this campaign... ships will really be an important asset and players should do whatever it takes to not loose them or it will go down hill fast. Fighters on the other hand will become rather expendable in comparison. But you need ships to actually claim, patrol and hold on to areas.

That sounds pretty cool. Do you happen to have a comprehensive and complete rule book/instruction manual/guide that you're willing to share?

It is only in a draft mode as of now and I'm trying to get the balancing right. I could certainly share my vision of it when it is ready.

I does contain a bit more than I just mentioned but I do try to keep it simple enough and reduce book keeping as much as possible but it will be slightly more than a regular Corellian campaign.

Isd = ship of choice for the empire...

4 hours ago, Derpzilla88 said:

Thematically this all sounds cool and the idea of a "hard mode" is pretty neat. Also seems like you have some cool ideas for mixing up the CC campaign.

But it also sounds like an absolutely miserable time for the Rebel players.

1 hour ago, jorgen_cab said:

I have a completely revamped the Corellian campaign and constructed it to be a bit more of a "realistic" feel to it. There will be many more special missions and ships will actually have ground assault points and bases will have to actually be assaulted by troops.

[snip]

These are only some of the things that I have changed for this campaign... ships will really be an important asset and players should do whatever it takes to not loose them or it will go down hill fast. Fighters on the other hand will become rather expendable in comparison. But you need ships to actually claim, patrol and hold on to areas.

The biggest test for any set of ideas: do you have players who will want to play this with you?

I have spent wasted many hours of my life coming up with game rule-set ideas, but they went nowhere because people were not willing to even give them a try. I don't mean to blame them, though. When I hear someone talk about a custom ruleset for a game, including a game I love, I will frequently glaze over unless I really get sold on the idea. I also think of myself as more open to alternative styles of play than most.

tl;dr: creating a cohesive group of players is the first necessity.

9 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

I agree that CC is geared towards resource attrition. As someone who is an enthusiast for astrocartography, I'm a little disappointed that it does not really matter where planet/bases are in relation to one another. At the same time, it seems that they way that hyperspace has been presented recently, that may actually be true to new canon.

But I like what you say about strategic strikes and asset assassination. That sounds to me like a way in which Imperial Assault or X-Wing might be incorporated into the game (something that I've been warned not to think about).

Please tell me more! (You think about it, so that I don't have to.)

Okay, I'm tinkering with a few ideas.

1. Kill off ships more.

The idea I'm working on now is that there will be scarring and permanent loss of unique components, as in the CC. But unlike the CC, death is harder to avoid. If a ship or squadron is destroyed, the owner gets the opportunity to pay for it to remain in the game, but scarred. You cannot unscar with repair points. If the owner does not pay, the ship/squadron is lost. If a scarred ship or squadron is destroyed, it is lost and cannot be repaired with points. Essentially, scarring is the ship barely holding on, and it's a temporary stopgap. A higher turnover rate of your fleet is expected.

2. More points to replace lost stuff.

The trade-off is that you can replace what you lose, and more quickly than in the CC. Bring in reinforcements from the Imperial core worlds, or recruit new worlds to the Rebellion in the wake of a bitter act of Imperial brutality. I don't want people limping on, crippled after a bad loss. But I want the fleets to change as the campaign unfolds. I want losses to lead to a different fleet composition. That may be a lower priority, as it's really hard to make non-sucky rules to encourage this.

3. Take out key targets.

Pretty much relates to #1 above. Star Wars adventures involve a lot of storylines (rescues, escapes, fetch quests), but one key storyline that comes up a lot is assassination (of spaceships). The Imperial machine of destruction that has to be taken out is the bedrock storyline of the entire Star Wars universe. And the Empire has plenty of reason to want to crush the Rebellion's newest beacon of hope. And wouldn't you know, in Armada people often point to key linchpin units that fleets are optimized around. Those are the juicy targets that I want people to gun for. Kill the Demo/Yavaris/BCC/Rhymer/Norra/whatever. I don't want players to be able to keep the same VIP units immortally protected. Those uniques have their time in the sun, then they get taken down, then something else comes along. Makes it more narrative.

4. Fleets are uglier and less min/maxed.

Since your faves might get sniped down if they are too threatening and aren't jealously protected, you can't count on formulating the perfect fleet composition before the campaign kickoff and running it straight through. You do the best you can with the units that you can get. A motley assortment of this and that, and you get to figure out how best to utilize them. That feels like Star Wars to me: doesn't always have to be Jan Ors and the Trench buddies. It could be Jan + Dash + a smattering of E-wings. Perfectly Star Warsy, but unlikely to ever be chosen intentionally in a carefully constructed Armada fleet. In fact, if I could ever figure out an elegant way to do it, I'd love to partially randomize upgrades. For example, you capture a new world and from its resources you are awarded your choice of X randomly drawn upgrades (somehow... this is where it falls apart). You can pick the one that works best for you, but you don't get free selection. Alternately, maybe objectives have to be completed or worlds captured before certain types of upgrades are made available (again... somehow...).

My best idea for this is probably to apply a thin layer of randomness over the game's basic mechanic of unrestricted optimization. So, you get to spend money on the specific upgrades you want, but additionally a new strategic bonus is assigned to certain planets, which gives you a free upgrade you get for your fleet, but it's randomly chosen (this will need a Google Spreadsheet with randomization). You captured Eadu (Weapons Lab): Add a random upgrade to your fleet, drawn from Turbolasers, Ion Cannons, and Ordnances. You captured Illodia (Officer Academy): Add a random upgrade to your fleet, drawn from Officers, Support Teams, and Weapons Teams. You captured Kuat (Shipyard): Add a random upgrade to your fleet, drawn from Offensive Retrofits, Defensive Retrofits, and Fleet Supports.

5. Play in a new part of the galaxy.

Actually, the easiest part of a new campaign would be just picking some new planets to fight over. I don't have some people's exhaustive knowledge of the Star Wars galaxy, but since you're apparently an astromech droid masquerading as a forum goer, maybe you've got some suggestions for star systems that would make for good campaign theaters.

6. Involve a Scum faction.

Actually an idea around which to center a second campaign. I want to involve a Scum faction, as a campaign is a fine way to do so. There's no way for Scum to field a fleet to compete with either of the existing factions, you say? You're right. But in this self-contained storyline, we'll make up a warlord who creates a pirate fleet and lays claim to a star system. And a campaign system is the perfect way to include flavorful mechanics like Scum assimilating defeated enemy ships into their fleet. I'd just point people to DA Shipyards for the missing pieces.