right now, I really like mak, who is the the best with him in your experience? we had an epic fail with Loku, and an epic success with Gideon.

My experience has been that Mak needs to be played like a support character, away from the action. He's got low health and rolls a white defense, but his Covert ability makes him useful behind beefier characters.

The difference is that he can deal great damage that way. His Ambush for pierce 2 nullifies all but a triple block on a black dice and does well against white dice. While his Longblaster (blue, blue) isn't going to hit for much damage but it's minimum distance is 4, so you will always meet minimum accuracy requirements to activate Ambush.

The only time I played as Mak I gave him a damage build by purchasing Disengage, Jeswandi Training, Target Acquired, Execute, and No Escape. I purchased EE-3 Carbine with Disruption Cell and Marksman Barrel for a minimum 6 accuracy. I don't think Mak got wounded once during my play with him.

So getting back to your question, I've found that Mak plays best with high health heroes and/or melee heroes. I had him in a team with Gaarkhan, Diala and Jyn. We did pretty well, although Jyn got wounded a lot. But Mak definitely held his own. With the proper build and a little luck when drawing weapons Mak can really excel in the single target damage area (very useful for missions with high health targets). I think he could also be a great compliment to Fenn who can excel in the multi target damage area.

Last words; like any support character, Mak works best with other characters that can absorb damage and take the focus away from Mak. Keep him as far as possible from the action and he'll stay alive as well as dish out the damage.

Loku was the linchpin in the Rebels beating the Return to Hoth finale last night.

His ability to put a recon token on any figure in his line of sight, ignoring figures, thereby letting everybody else ignore figures when attacking that one person who the Imps need to keep alive, was...perfect.

3 hours ago, thestag said:

My experience has been that Mak needs to be played like a support character, away from the action. He's got low health and rolls a white defense, but his Covert ability makes him useful behind beefier characters.

I don't think you're using the term "support character" the way most other people do. I've seen the term used mostly in conjunction with characters that rarely attack, Gideon being the prime example. But I get what you mean; he makes a good support sniper, providing cover fire for his teammates who are in the thick of the fight.

I agree with your points, and as IP I completed a Core campaign not too long ago where Mak had a similar (possibly exact) build and he was a handful.

2 hours ago, caseycheesecake said:

Loku was the linchpin in the Rebels beating the Return to Hoth finale last night.

His ability to put a recon token on any figure in his line of sight, ignoring figures, thereby letting everybody else ignore figures when attacking that one person who the Imps need to keep alive, was...perfect.

Well, this thread was meant to be about Mak, but sure let's drag that argument over from the other thread...

the thread is who works well with mak, i'm about to run him with fen i think. what do you recommend on building? tactical movement disengage for one.

You can't really go wrong with Fenn, Diala, Gideon, or Verana in my opinion. They work well with just about everyone.

Vinto might be interesting to mop up any big enemies that get knocked down to just one or two hit points after Mak fires a big gun, or to run interference for him against numerous low hit-point enemies, but they'd both need someone tanky to distract.

I agree with most of those, fen blows troopers away, diala doges and weaves and deals a fair amount of damage, gideon has nice command, and I don't understand the venara choice, and I believe Gaarkan is good too.

I only have Core, so I'll give you my $.02

Right now I'm going against Mak (with No Escape with that insane DXR blaster), Diala and Jyn (with Peacemaker, Trick Shot, etc). They are proving to be a real thorn in my side

Mak is pretty tough to engage when he hangs back and is able to get multiple attacks with that DXR + No Escape (it has +6 accuracy so he can safely hang back and deal double red damage). Diala with Dancing Weapon and Way of the Sarlacc can Force Throw one of my units adjacent - then Saber Throw/cleave or just finish them off with Way of the Sarlacc. Its a pretty tough combo.

I can work around Jyn's Quick Shot - its more annoying then anything. But its much harder with Trick Shot and she also earned the Peacemaker reward, so she is attacking many times out of her activation. I need to bring units that deal strain to make sure she isn't constantly attacking me

They chose to only run three heroes. I think had they just played Gideon as a fourth "common" hero and not really worried about upgrading his weapons - just use him purely as support, they would be totally cleaning my clock with Masterstroke, etc getting extra attacks for their powerful heroes would be awful. So, I'm thankful they didn't like the "old man"

1 hour ago, ATM2100 said:

and I don't understand the venara choice

Verena gets up close to the enemy and Mak picks them off triggering her Close Quarters ability. Then she proceeds to kill everything. I've seen her and Gharkaahn combine to take down six Stormtroopers on the first activation (Gharkaahn's) of a mission.

As @Pollux85 said, she goes well with everyone.

Mak is a very strong hero; he doesn't really need any particular support from any other heroes. Of course heroes like Fenn, Diala, and Gideon will be good with him - they'll be good with literally anyone.

I can see why you would have trouble running him and Loku in the same team. They'll want the same weapons, are both easy to wound if they are targeted, and both are good at taking out single figures but not so great at dealing with groups.

Because Mak is just good on his own, it's probably more important to make sure that you have other heroes that fill other roles. You'll want a melee hero, a support (someone who's good without upgraded weapons, can do attribute tests, can pick up crates, etc.) and probably someone who can deal with groups (your melee hero might be able to do this too).

For melees: Diala, Garkhaan, Davith, Shyla and Verena are all good. Murne, Gideon, and MHD are the best supports, but Onar and Diala can do that pretty well too. For removing large groups: Fenn, Davith, Shyla, Verena and Vinto can all handle that pretty well; Garkhaan can too with the right weapon.

Mak's strength is high single target damage and Execute which makes him very low strain useage and reliable at dealing with white dice enemies. His weakness are lack of multi target attacks and very limited extra attacks.

So he needs to be paired with someone that can deal with many weaker enemies. He can work well with high strain characters since he doesn't need assistance. He benefits from having a melee in front of him as his ability works best at range.

So Fenn, Jynn, Vinto and Verena each work.

MHD-19, Gideon and Murne are your support and pair with everything and generally should have one of them.

Diala, Davith and Gaarkhan can be made to work if they focus on cleave and take their extra attack ability.

Ones that don't work so well would be Shayla, Onar, Saska as they don't compensate well for Mak's weakness.

Biv is bad pairing as he's too similar to Mak. If you take him then you pretty much have to take either Fenn or Vinto. Jynn is high strain like Biv and Verena is a bit strain heavy so don't pair well with him either.

Loku is basically a worse in every way Mak, is total garbage, and should never be taken. Even if you were to consider it, the best thing anyone says about Loku is his ability to ignore figures when targeting... which Mak can already do. If you insist on taking him then you have to take either Fenn, Jynn, Verena or Vinto as your 3rd.

17 hours ago, Union said:

Ones that don't work so well would be Shayla, Onar, Saska as they don't compensate well for Mak's weakness.

Depending on how you build Shyla, she can compliment Mak fairly well late game in being able to take out multiple lower health figures with the right setup. In our JR campaign (with both Mak and Shyla) Shyla has the Electrostaff (with Extended Haft) and can apply Cleave 2 to each of her attacks. Additionally she has Full Sweep for an additional Cleave 3 and Swords Dance for an extra attack that can Cleave 2. All said and done, she can cleave a total of 9 damage over three attacks. It is not too difficult to find ways to apply Cleave damage with Reach, Mandalorian Whip, and the (up to) 5 movement points she can get with Responsiveness, Deadly Grace, and spending Strain to move. Needless to say, she's a beast and a major problem for our Imperial player.

3 hours ago, machfalcon said:

Depending on how you build Shyla, she can compliment Mak fairly well late game in being able to take out multiple lower health figures with the right setup. In our JR campaign (with both Mak and Shyla) Shyla has the Electrostaff (with Extended Haft) and can apply Cleave 2 to each of her attacks. Additionally she has Full Sweep for an additional Cleave 3 and Swords Dance for an extra attack that can Cleave 2. All said and done, she can cleave a total of 9 damage over three attacks. It is not too difficult to find ways to apply Cleave damage with Reach, Mandalorian Whip, and the (up to) 5 movement points she can get with Responsiveness, Deadly Grace, and spending Strain to move. Needless to say, she's a beast and a major problem for our Imperial player.

She's very good, but unlike Diala, Davith and Gaarkhan she doesn't get an extra attack against a different target so you are very dependant on cleave damage, which every other melee character can take too.

Her high movement, high defense and recovery make her generally better than Davith and Gaarkhan, I just think without the extra attack she's not the best pairing with Mak. Maybe in practice Full Sweep is as good as an extra attack when combined with a reach + cleave weapon. If you take Full Sweep first rather than her movement abilities you'll probably be pretty good.

I find her whip a very valuable tool for setting up cleaves as well. She isn't the strongest at multi target dmg, but she is pretty good.