1 hour ago, DR4CO said:

Good Lord, the arrogance of this one.

Who the hell do you think you are, that you alone are the only X-wing player on the planet to try to counter the OP Scum ships and cards from recent waves? The best X-wing players on the planet have been trying for more than a year - and it hasn't worked. The only real answer has been to play it yourself so as to at least compete from an even footing. One glance at tournament results from Worlds, System Opens and even Regionals would tell you that.

But hey, if you're so sure the rest of the player base are idiots and there's an easy counter list out there, by all means put your money where your mouth is and go find it. I'll wait.

Wanna also remind you that this is just game, no need to get too serious in these matters! It is awfullyimportant for me too, but c'mon man! Big and not so big boys and girls playing with plastic miniatures, keep that in mind..

36 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

But there are a couple other options to try. YV-666 has a decent following, there is some hope for the updated Scyks, Scum HWKs have awesome pilot abilities, and the two options you mentioned...

I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if I didn't mention FIVE. CARTEL. MARAUDERS. at this point.

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if I didn't mention FIVE. CARTEL. MARAUDERS. at this point.

A fun list for sure, not so sure about competitive

19 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

I'm all for them nerfing mindlink. Just a question of a way to nerf it without making it unusable. I actually like adding a line "Treat all turn maneuvers as white maneuvers". That solves the problem of jumpmasters/protectorates/shadowcasters green turns that are a big part of why mindlink is so good. As a side effect, it lets the y-wing have white 3-hards and the bossk have white 2-hards.

Edit: If mindlink didn't pass stress, just focus tokens, I'd be all for changing it so it didn't work when stressed. But as long as it also passes stress, that takes it from too good to out of hte meta completely

White turns actually would help other ships with red turns... I think they might do let mindlink to be able to receive two stress tokens instead of one, or limit them with one focus.

3 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

A fun list for sure, not so sure about competitive

Won my only Store Champs with it (okay, one of the wins was with 3 Marauders and 2 Mangler Scyks, but still). Took it to a top 40 finish at Yavin 2016 as well. 1 point from the cut (and a metric crapton of MOV)

That was before the advent of 5-6-7+ dice attacks, though.

7 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if I didn't mention FIVE. CARTEL. MARAUDERS. at this point.

The sweetest things there are for Scum!

Just now, FTS Gecko said:

Won my only Store Champs with it (okay, one of the wins was with 3 Marauders and 2 Mangler Scyks, but still). Took it to a top 40 finish at Yavin 2016 as well. 1 point from the cut (and a metric crapton of MOV)

That was before the advent of 5-6-7+ dice attacks, though.

I did pretty good with five Marauders in tournament! Was so much fun to fly them!

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if I didn't mention FIVE. CARTEL. MARAUDERS. at this point.

Which will hopefully be a potient force.

4 minutes ago, Zazaa said:

White turns actually would help other ships with red turns... I think they might do let mindlink to be able to receive two stress tokens instead of one, or limit them with one focus.

Yes it would, but the only scum ships with hard turns are the y-wing and yv-666 I already pointed out. So...kavil and bossk get to change a red turn to a white. I don't mind letting mindlink passing 2 stress intead of one. And limiting you to max 1 focus token similar to comm relay for evade is interesting as well.

1 minute ago, VanderLegion said:

Yes it would, but the only scum ships with hard turns are the y-wing and yv-666 I already pointed out. So...kavil and bossk get to change a red turn to a white. I don't mind letting mindlink passing 2 stress intead of one. And limiting you to max 1 focus token similar to comm relay for evade is interesting as well.

Yup, I could live with more downside with mindlink, but if FFG will try to make this change one day it will be so hard to make it work without killing it. With one point it could have some more downside to it..

My personal suggestion: you cannot equip attani mindlink if your pilot skill is 6 or higher.

Prevents Assaj, Fenn and Teroch from taking it, while generic Scyks, Firesprays, Kihraxzes, G1-As, Guri, Palob and Manaroo (JumpMaster nerf still needed) get to keep it. It also doesn't increase the power of stress-dealing mechanics.

46 minutes ago, Ladrillito said:

My personal suggestion: you cannot equip attani mindlink if your pilot skill is 6 or higher.

Prevents Assaj, Fenn and Teroch from taking it, while generic Scyks, Firesprays, Kihraxzes, G1-As, Guri, Palob and Manaroo (JumpMaster nerf still needed) get to keep it. It also doesn't increase the power of stress-dealing mechanics.

Doesn't make much sense to me..

11 minutes ago, Zazaa said:

Doesn't make much sense to me..

It's my choice of fix. Attani felt like it was a card designed to breathe life into mid PS generics. That's a worthy goal. The game would be more interesting for that niche being competitive. Unfortunately it's too powerful on the named shadowcasters and protectorates.

The jumps are welcome to it so long as they get a 2 point increase.

14 hours ago, sim1killa said:

Lol no it won't. The problem undercosted ships would just have a new flavor of the week.

Or maybe these ships are properly costed and ecerything else os overcosted?

*over dramatic band* DUN DUN DUUUUUUUNNNNN!!!

39 minutes ago, 4fox100 said:

Or maybe these ships are properly costed and ecerything else os overcosted?

*over dramatic band* DUN DUN DUUUUUUUNNNNN!!!

Wow. I was way off base. You are so right. I can't believe, I didn't see it before.

The reason I don't like Mindlink is the same reason I didn't like x7 Defenders. It's annoying to stress and/or block Fenn and then have him roll up with an extra die and a free focus (or two with Manaroo) and get off Scott free. I think it devalues maneuvering skill, which is what makes the game fun.

2 hours ago, Vargas79 said:

It's my choice of fix. Attani felt like it was a card designed to breathe life into mid PS generics. That's a worthy goal. The game would be more interesting for that niche being competitive. Unfortunately it's too powerful on the named shadowcasters and protectorates.

The jumps are welcome to it so long as they get a 2 point increase.

I'm not trying to judge anyones ideas, just felt wrong to limit it to generic pilots. I'm trying to think story also and it doesn't fit in my head as suggested. There will be official FFG nerf one day perhaps, we can just try to guess, but not effect on their decision, there will be lots of testing before they end up with anything.

Feels bit pointless sometimes to make up these nerf suggestions because they might listen people in the matter, but they will make their own nerf, probably for the best!

Also I'm hoping that FFG would have patience to wait till we get one or two more waves to see where the meta will be after new ships. Maybe there will be some upgrades that works as nerf to the problems.

I mostly cry about mindlink because it isn't powerful enough. It should give out any actions not just focus.

If one ship boosts they should all boost ...no matter what.

25 minutes ago, Zazaa said:

Also I'm hoping that FFG would have patience to wait till we get one or two more waves to see where the meta will be after new ships. Maybe there will be some upgrades that works as nerf to the problems.

Given that we only get two waves a year, as the next one probably won't be here before august at best, more likely September, they absolutely should NOT wait 1-2 waves to fix things. That's how we get things like the zuckuss nerf AFTER he stopped being common in the meta anyway

9 hours ago, Thormind said:

People would just turn to Ketsu. Shes almost as effective and in some situation shes even better. The problem comes from the ship, not the pilot. That dial is just too good for all the stats/actions/upgrades/cost of the ship.

Oh I have no doubt people will swap in Ketsu, but I think you'll find she's a much poorer fit in those lists compared to Asajj. Asajj's ability is incredibly easy to activate. Range 1-2 in the mobile arc is pretty much just 'stress an enemy a turn', and because it's only tied to her mobile arc she can just point her arc inwards and do circles around the opponent while stressing them. Add Latts crew to this equation to buff her durability and Asajj become a truly oppressive.

Ketsu is a very different beast. Her ability is arguably more devastating, but it's a lot more difficult to trigger, especially over multiple rounds. In my experience she's either K-turns a lot more than Asajj to help get her ability off, or she's flying in circles similar to Asajj and not using her ability (except occasionally). Either scenario reduces the effectiveness of the ship as a Attanni carrier, which is good. Ketsu also lacks Latts synergy that pushes Asajj's durability up so high.

I do think the shadowcaster is a little undercosted (stop giving big ships green hard turns FFG!), but it's nowhere near the level of the jumpmaster. The generic and Sabine are non-existant in the meta, and even Ketsu is relatively rare. I've seen Sabine precisely once in the whole time that ship's been out, and I've never seen anyone play the generic.

Basically FFG could remove the Shadowcaster from the Attanni equation with relative ease. The bigger changes needed are of course to the Jumpmaster chassis, but I doubt that's news to anyone. Solve these two things and I think you'll find Attanni dropping off in use (though still being good).

Also this is unrelated, but make Latts, Autothrusters, and Fang title once per phase. Passive defence that works on multiple attacks with little to no down-side is the worst.

Totally agree on the passive defense point. The only reason for passive defense is a counter to passive offense--that is, swarms and TLT. Swarms are already countered by arc-dodgers. TLT spam MIGHT necessitate Autothrusters, but there's certainly no need for Concord Dawn to be passive. That just encourages a "**** it" mentality; sure, you might bump, but you've got four attack dice, a free evade, and five attack dice...why bother with good flying?

37 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

Totally agree on the passive defense point. The only reason for passive defense is a counter to passive offense--that is, swarms and TLT. Swarms are already countered by arc-dodgers. TLT spam MIGHT necessitate Autothrusters, but there's certainly no need for Concord Dawn to be passive. That just encourages a "**** it" mentality; sure, you might bump, but you've got four attack dice, a free evade, and five attack dice...why bother with good flying?

I think the Fang title and Fearlessness were FFGs attempt to encourage a less frustrating ace playstyle than the traditional 'I got PS9 or greater, so let me just Boost and Barrel Roll out of all your arcs, with perfect knowledge of where they are'. Sadly, it ended up being equally frustrating, but in a different way as many ships can't take Fenn's offense and/or deal enough damage in return to get through 4 greens, 1 evade and often 1 Focus too.

12 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

In the rare case the OP isn't trolling:


Mindlink gives you close to the action-economy of PtL, because you almost always want a Focus + SOMETHING even with PtL. Not always, but often.

3x Mindlink = 3 pts
3x PtL = 9 pts

So it's very, very cost effective.

On top of PtL, Mindlink also gives your ships collision and weaponized-stress insurance. Bumping a ship or getting double-stressed shuts down a ship with PtL, which goes from 2 Actions to 0 Actions. Mindlinked ships that bump or get double-stressed still get that Focus, so they go from 2 --> 1 action. So in those circumstances, it's twice as valuable as PtL, which becomes a dead upgrade.

Also, PtL ships always have to go green , where Mindlinked ships only need to go green if one of them gets stressed. So in a triple PtL list, you have three ships that all have to do greens every turn if they are using PtL. In a Mindlink list, you have ships getting two actions that don't necessarily ever have to go green, and when one does happen to get stressed and all have to go green, it's no different than an all PtL list. Of course, if you don't need the multiple actions, your ships can go white and as long as one gets its action, they all get a Focus.


TAKEAWAY : So, Mindlink is in some ways twice as a good as PtL while only costing a third of the points . If you can't see why this is amazing, you do not have a very deep understanding of X-Wing.

I think this is the perfect description of Mindlink vs Push the Limit.

Thats why I am quoting it here, so hopefully people will read AND understand it.

16 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

I think this is the perfect description of Mindlink vs Push the Limit .

Thats why I am quoting it here, so hopefully people will read AND understand it.

I'm not sure I necessarily agree that mindlink is twice as good as PTL. With PTL on 3 ships you're getting 3 extra actions per turn, with the requirement that they all have to do green. With 3 Mindlink, you're only getting 2 extra actions per turn, on the two that gain the free focus tokens (outside of guri/palob shenanigans). And it's inherently limited to a single type of extra action. It ONLy passes focus, so one ship always has to focus to get the free actions, then the other two are free to do whatever. PTL you're free to do any two actions you want.

If you look at it from the angle of "an extra action per turn generally costs about 3 points", then mindlink should cost 2. Put it on 3 ships, you've paid 6 points and get 2 free actions per round (as long as you have 3 mindlinked ships alive).