2 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

...until they lose one of their ships in the first round of combat. (it can happen to the best of us, after all).

Especially on 2 ship lists. But then, I don't think Mindlink is worth taking on two ship lists.

4 hours ago, SOTL said:

Well, none because it's barely relevant.

If Option A is better than other available options then the fact that it stops you taking those options is not really important.

Exactly. Opportunity cost is only relevant if there's an equal option that could have similar cost/benefit. If I take VI for a point, I've taken up a slot that may or may not do something for me in a matchup where crackshot would have been better. Take BB-8 on Poe? I lose my opportunity for regen.

Since mindlink is one point it has a lot of other benefits, one of which was eloquently mentioned earlier in that you can actually bring better ships with the points you save from Mindlink (where other good EPTs are usually more expensive). There's really no opportunity cost when the EPT is probably the best in the game (provided you have more than two ships) and just costs one point.

4 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Exactly. Opportunity cost is only relevant if there's an equal option that could have similar cost/benefit. If I take VI for a point, I've taken up a slot that may or may not do something for me in a matchup where crackshot would have been better. Take BB-8 on Poe? I lose my opportunity for regen.

Since mindlink is one point it has a lot of other benefits, one of which was eloquently mentioned in that you can actually bring better ships with the points you save. There's really no opportunity cost when the Ept is probably the best in the game (provided you have more than two ships) and just costs one points.

On the contrary, VI is a good (probably the best) example of why Mindlink can have an opportunity cost. Getting an extra focus token per round is fantastic - but when you're out-PSed and don't have a turret, there are matchups where it can actually be a HUGE penalty not to have +2PS. It's lucky for Mindlink that the current meta doesn't have a great proliferation of PS10+ pilots.

20 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

On the contrary, VI is a good (probably the best) example of why Mindlink can have an opportunity cost. Getting an extra focus token per round is fantastic - but when you're out-PSed and don't have a turret, there are matchups where it can actually be a HUGE penalty not to have +2PS. It's lucky for Mindlink that the current meta doesn't have a great proliferation of PS10+ pilots.

So every EPT that's not Veteran Instincts carries that exact same opportunity cost... and your point is we should only ever play VI?

29 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

On the contrary, VI is a good (probably the best) example of why Mindlink can have an opportunity cost. Getting an extra focus token per round is fantastic - but when you're out-PSed and don't have a turret, there are matchups where it can actually be a HUGE penalty not to have +2PS. It's lucky for Mindlink that the current meta doesn't have a great proliferation of PS10+ pilots.

Seems like a very rare corner case (again), and it's one that I don't agree with anyway since Mindlink still provides benefits even when you are lower PS. That should be obvious since at least two of three ships in most Mindlink lists are often lower than ships they face. .

I haven't met a mindlink player yet that says they'd have rather had VI, or they at least realize that in the rare case it would be an advantage, they realize that it's really silly to consider it over mindlink since then it really is an opportunity cost discussion.

2 minutes ago, SOTL said:

So every EPT that's not Veteran Instincts carries that exact same opportunity cost... and your point is we should only ever play VI?

lol no, but nice straw man.

My point is that there's a trade off when you select an EPT, between increasing your PS, and getting some other effect. INcreasing your PS can be the right choice, or it can be the wrong choice, depending on the meta (I vividly remember an occasion where I took VI Vader to an event and never once faced a PS above 8, for instance, it was the wrong one there), but is is an option that's open to you at list building. It carries an opportunity cost as well - that of not having a different EPT.

But denying that it's an opportunity cost to have mindlink is ignorant. There are cases where you'd prefer to have something else - when you're the last ship alive, when you trigger Carnor's or Teroch's abilities, when you're supplying tokens to an enemy Palob, etc etc. There re many cases where having Mindlink can be a neutral or even a bad thing, which is the definition of an opportunity cost - the loss of other alternatives when one alternative is chosen.

Mindlink Fenn can't choose to move and shoot after VI RAC, but VI Fenn could. Mindlink Fenn can't ignore Kylo crew, but Determination Fenn could. Etc etc etc. Mindlink's benefits in a 3+ EPT ship list usually outweigh the other options you could have chosen, but not always.

4 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

lol no, but nice straw man.

My point is that there's a trade off when you select an EPT, between increasing your PS, and getting some other effect. INcreasing your PS can be the right choice, or it can be the wrong choice, depending on the meta (I vividly remember an occasion where I took VI Vader to an event and never once faced a PS above 8, for instance, it was the wrong one there), but is is an option that's open to you at list building. It carries an opportunity cost as well - that of not having a different EPT.

But denying that it's an opportunity cost to have mindlink is ignorant. There are cases where you'd prefer to have something else - when you're the last ship alive, when you trigger Carnor's or Teroch's abilities, when you're supplying tokens to an enemy Palob, etc etc. There re many cases where having Mindlink can be a neutral or even a bad thing, which is the definition of an opportunity cost - the loss of other alternatives when one alternative is chosen.

Mindlink Fenn can't choose to move and shoot after VI RAC, but VI Fenn could. Mindlink Fenn can't ignore Kylo crew, but Determination Fenn could. Etc etc etc. Mindlink's benefits in a 3+ EPT ship list usually outweigh the other options you could have chosen, but not always.

But this is true of everything always, which makes it a non-factor.

9 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

But denying that it's an opportunity cost to have mindlink is ignorant.

You're right that it probably isn't completely accurate, but I'd argue it's far more ignorant to use opportunity cost as a defense for why a card isn't under costed since that argument could then apply to literally everything in the game.

4 minutes ago, SOTL said:

But this is true of everything always, which makes it a non-factor.

No, it makes it a difficult factor to account for. It's still meaningful.

I mean... have you never come back from a game or tournament and said to yourself 'if I'd just had this upgrade instead of that one, I would have done better'?

If you haven't, I'd be surprised. If you have, that's a classic expression of opportunity cost.

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

No, it makes it a difficult factor to account for. It's still meaningful.

I mean... have you never come back from a game or tournament and said to yourself 'if I'd just had this upgrade instead of that one, I would have done better'?

If you haven't, I'd be surprised. If you have, that's a classic expression of opportunity cost.

No one is saying opportunity cost doesn't exist. It's just a poor defense.

5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

No, it makes it a difficult factor to account for. It's still meaningful.

I mean... have you never come back from a game or tournament and said to yourself 'if I'd just had this upgrade instead of that one, I would have done better'?

If you haven't, I'd be surprised. If you have, that's a classic expression of opportunity cost.

Pretty much, no, because that's what practice is for. You take the upgrade that you think, on balance, is going to give you the most value most often. If you solve that equation successfully then you're happy. It's like the '**** those dice' losses. You remember the ones you lose because it happened but don't remember the ones that worked because you did.

The thing is, that's also a really poor example of what opportunity cost really means anyway. It's getting repeatedly used incorrectly in this context

11 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

No, it makes it a difficult factor to account for. It's still meaningful.

I mean... have you never come back from a game or tournament and said to yourself 'if I'd just had this upgrade instead of that one, I would have done better'?

If you haven't, I'd be surprised. If you have, that's a classic expression of opportunity cost.

It's really not meaningful. Because all EPTs by definition of being EPTs take up that slot they all have the same cost in that regard. Since that cost is always exactly even across the board it is not relevant when comparing EPTs against each other.

6 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

I might have misread what I quoted. Was reading it as saying 3 mindlinks was about twice as good as 3 PTLs. If you pay 1/3 the cost of PTL (3 mindlinks vs 1 ptl), then yes, you're getting ~double the effect (2 free actions vs 1). That matches up with what I was saying about a free action being worth abuot 3 points, meaning mindlink shoul dhave been 2 points since the most common lists using it seem to be 3 ships (would get a slight discount with 4 ships in that you'd be getting 3 free actions for 8 points instead of 9).

Although the issue with mindlink never has been the cost for people, it could be 2-3p and it would be in game as good as it is now, it would have restrict few lists. The issue people seem to have is action economy and stress blanket. It has downside to it, but it can be solved by one green move and everything else will be able to get focus.

I think FFG might do change to the amount of the stress that can be received with it, maybe two instead of one, that would make it bit harder to clear out just with one green move, but would still offer decent action economy, although this vulnerability would make more stress lists and people with mindlink might be gone or maybe we would see more inspiring recruit in the crew slot.

Other thing that they could do is restrict amount of focus they can have, after all of them have one focus you couldn't do anymore focus action in that turn, it would still be excellent for repositioning tool, but with just bit more reasonable, it is one point EPT so there could be more downside to it.

One suggestions was adding range restriction to it, one thing that I even suggested at one point when I got sucked into the nerf "game", but I don't know if this would be too big restriction, it might just kill the card or all the good lists that are out there, it would still work for swarms, but they are gone at least for now and I think X-Wing would suffer from this a bit, it would restrict the style of flying and I don't like when that happens. With Manaroo it was alright because it is just one ship, not whole squad.

2 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

...until they lose one of their ships in the first round of combat. (it can happen to the best of us, after all).

But those swingy games are lost causes anyways , wherein other upgrade choices wouldn't be very likely to make much of a difference.

6 hours ago, haritos said:

And for the 10000th time: If it was broken, other lists would be using it. But they re not. Just as nobody else was broken with zuckuss except dengar . But u thought he was OP. Great insight there boys.

outside of Justin's winning list at worlds EVERY SINGLE OTHER SCUM LIST in the cut used mindlink. And there were multiple archetypes, it's not like it was 12 identical paratanni lists. It's not just a matter of "the jumpmaster is broken so of course it's good with mindlink". Mindlink is just as good on the protectorate and the shadowcaster.

6 hours ago, Smutpedler said:

Something I feel the need to add having read some more of last nights posts. A lot of people feel mindlink is bad because it allows tokens when you get blocked, rocked or stressed.

There are so many ways already in the game to get tokens despite being stressed, blocked or bumped. Mindlink is the only way to share it around the whole squad but it also shares the downside around the entire squad.

Why does no one moan about Keyan , Soontir , Garven , Kyle Katarn , Rey crew, Moldy Crow , Dauntless , Outlaw Tech etc. ? Because they are not seen on horribly efficient ships. I really don't think it's anything to do with the block/rock/stress thing; it's frustration born out of having to face it a LOT on some under costed ships.

Who posts on the forum moaning that the Jake Farrell and Kyle in his HWK list is WAAAAAY OP because I blocked Jake then he got 3 actions in the combat phase? OR because Garven assigned his spent focus token to a stressed ship? Or because Keyan spent his stress as a focus? OR because I blocked AND stressed Miranda and she just got a token from Rey ?

Before all the calls of "false parralels"; my point isn't anything to do with the cost/efficiency of these abilities but if these are such NPE mechanics then why have they been here for a while? Un-nerfed? I honestly believe some of this great nerfing crusade is down to people hating playing the same thing over and over as opposed to mechanics being truly broken.

It's been said many times in this thread; it took the 3 top dogs from Scums arsenal to come along before it became a monster. These other abilities do the same things; just on much worse frames. Not trying to flame or call anyone out here; I just think psychological and human factors have a lot more to do with things than number crunchers like to allow credit for.

Sure, it took the top 3 scum ships coming along to make mindlink a monster. But they aren't going to take away the green hard turns from all 3 (or any of the 3), and even increasing the cost of the jumpmaster isn't going to make mindlink any less effective. The only way to make mindlink not be almost the only EPT seen for scum (outside of 2 ship lists) is to nerf mindlink itself.

3 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

And Manaroo and Kaato s, two other Scum ships that can pass/take a Focus and generate another Focus in the process. Kaato s doesn't see much top-table play, but I encounter him a bit locally where he's a very cheap filler ship in a Triple Mindlink list, and his ability to steal a Focus (and then regenerate one from who he stole from) makes him a tough little ship to crack for his points, since he'll often be double-focused. Manaroo , of course, is still quite popular despite her nerf.

In this case, I was specifically referring to guri and palob as ways to get focus tokens for your entire list when none of your ships were able to do the action, either due to stress or bmping or whatever.

3 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Sure, but as I noted, Focus is typically the action every ship wants every turn. While that's not always the case, Focus is still far and away the best action given its flexibility. You never see a ship perform a TL action unless it's already getting a Focus or absolutely needs the TL for an ability or secondary weapon (e.g. Omega Leader ), since Focus is incredibly flexible in who you spend it against and has no range requirement when you perform it, and it has the same expected total hits as TL. At three+ green dice, Evade is as good (3 green dice) or better (4+ green dice) than an Evade token when it comes to expected evade results. So, since Focus is usable offensively or defensively, it's always the first of the "modifier" actions you perform.

A lot of the time, yes, focus is one of the actions you want. Mainly on fenn, mindlink loses the ability to double-reposition like you could with PTL for arc-dodging. As for TL, you also see it when ships aren't going to have a shot and aren't going to get shot to set up for a future round ;).

3 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Also, worth pointing out that PtL isn't entirely unrestricted as you suggest, as the free action has to come from your Action Bar and not an upgrade or damage card.

This is true. Doesn't change much of my point. The same is true for Mindlink (since focus is on every ships bar and has to be 1 of the actions you get), and with PTL you can do the upgrade or damage card action first then PTL into an action from your bar.

3 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I think what you're overlooking (or at least your reply here didn't mention it) is that Mindlink has built-in protection against overlaps with ships, obstacles, and weaponized stress. When a PtL ship bumps an obstacle or ship or gets double-stressed by a stresshog, it loses all its actions and goes from 2 --> 0 (or "3" --> 0 in the case of Fel , Inquisitor , Ryad , or Jake ). The old go-to strat to beat Fel in his Wave 8-9 prime was to to block him with one ship then kill him when he was actionless. This doesn't work as easily against Mindlink ships, because even if one gets bumped or double-stressed it's still getting a Focus unless all the Mindlinked ships get bumped or double-stressed. So a Mindlink ship typically only goes from 2 --> 1 action when it loses its Perform Action step, as opposed to a PtL ship going from 2 --> 0. This is where I think the majority of the extra value comes from with Mindlink .

Mindlink is, in many cases, close to the effectiveness of PtL . You're right that PtL allows for two non-Focus actions, but the majority of the time I think PtL ships are focusing anyways. You're also right that a triple PtL list is getting 3 free actions for 9 points, whereas a triple Mindlink list is only getting 2 free focus actions for 3 points (ignoring Guri , Palob , Manaroo etc). But Mindlink approaches pretty close to PtL levels of efficiency for a third of the cost. Then you factor in that bumps/double-stress only reduce Mindlink ships to 1 Action instead of the 0 it does for PtL ships, and I think it's fair to say Mindlink has more value than PtL for less cost. Is it roughly twice the value for a third of the cost? I dunno, maybe I oversimplified the math too much and rounded too much, but I think it's at least close.

I've mentioned the protection against bumping etc elsewhere. I agree mindlink is really good and is undercosted (as I've said) or needs other changes (like making hard turns white). It's probably at least as good as PTL, with the cheaper cost making it a better upgrade card for the cost, but ignoring cost I don't think it's TWICE as good as PTL.

I don't think this is that difficult to grasp... If mindlink was the real OP issue then you woulda seen plenty of other scum lists rising up with mindlink besides JM5K, protectorate, and shadowcaster. Maybe 4 scyk mindlink? G1-A mindlink and friends? NDruLink?

Thing is you didn't. You could pretend there were multiple archetypes yadda yadda but it really comes down to just varients of the same 3 core ships.

And then you have the world champion. He rose through and above all the mindlink filth. One of the 3 core undercosted ships; not the the mindlink.

If the JM5K, protectorate, and shadowcaster just didn't exist, do you honestly think the top 16 would be packed with scyk mindlink squads or others? I don't think so anyway....

So I mean, mindlink is really good but its not the first (or maybe not even the first, second, or third) issue that needs to be addressed...

Hi guys, let me give you a short textbook definition before i pull my eyes out:

Opportunity Cost: the loss of other alternatives when one alternative is chosen.

In a world of finite time and resources, you can never, EVER say there is no opportunity cost to something. Please, it makes people who know what it means want to shoot themselves from frustration. To help you understand what I ment when I repeatedly reminded people that mindlink takes 3 EPTs slots, let me use an extensive example:

3 mindlinks give you +2 focus tokens. Other things equal you can say that a 3 ship fleet gets the equivalent of 5 actions out of mindlink for those 3 sacrificed EPTs and the point cost.

2 PTLs give +2 actions. So a 3 ship list other things equal would get literally 5 actions for 2 EPTs and 6 points.

The OPPORTUNITY cost EPT-wise here is that, in order to get those +2 focus from mindlink, you lost access to an EPT, which you wouldn't have lost if you had taken PTL (at a steeper price). You could have gotten for example 2 PTLs and a crackshot, so its mindlink: 5 actions VS PTL: 5 actions + crackshot .

This is one of the reasons why PTL is more expensive in points, because its cheaper in EPTs.

Let me also say again that it is utterly ridiculous to try and claim one is better than the other, when clearly there are situations where mindlink is better, and others when PTL is better. But what the hell, keep trying.

Mindlink has a bunch of pretty good features. You can bump and still get a focus. You can take the ship that is in harms way and turtle up with an own evade plus two focuses. You can do reds and still get focus as long as another ship moves and focuses before or executes a green and focuses after. You can reposition and still get focus. You can get any combo of focus + other action without any penalty like stress or whatever. There are very few upgrades in the game that even comes close to being able to do that.

We say that VI, Ptl etc are good, Crack shot is great etc and guess what? They are not selected. Mindlink is. Yes, scum ships are great. Jm5k is great. That does not in any way take away the fact that Mindlink is in my book the best upgrade in the game.

1 hour ago, Gibbilo said:

I don't think this is that difficult to grasp... If mindlink was the real OP issue then you woulda seen plenty of other scum lists rising up with mindlink besides JM5K, protectorate, and shadowcaster . Maybe 4 scyk mindlink ? G1-A mindlink and friends? NDruLink?

Thing is you didn't. You could pretend there were multiple archetypes yadda yadda but it really comes down to just varients of the same 3 core ships.

And then you have the world champion. He rose through and above all the mindlink filth. One of the 3 core undercosted ships; not the the mindlink .

If the JM5K, protectorate, and shadowcaster just didn't exist, do you honestly think the top 16 would be packed with scyk mindlink squads or others? I don't think so anyway....

So I mean, mindlink is really good but its not the first (or maybe not even the first, second, or third) issue that needs to be addressed...

Mindlink is seen on those 3 ships because they're just about the only ships worth fielding right now for scum. TLT y-wings are also good, but most of the scum small base ships (and the firespray) aren't good ships, so of course we don't see them with mindlink. And just because the world champion didn't use mindlink doesn't mean it isn't a problem. The world champion didn't use whisper either in the pre-change decloak days, but whisper with old decloak was s till a problem. The fact that every OTHER scum list int he top 16 (and most of the lists were scum) all had mindlink indicates it's a problem.

IMO the worst part of the current classic scum archetype to deal with is Assajj. Handing out stress just for getting them in a mobile arc(which takes decent maneuvering and an action) shuts down a lot of efficiency options for the other factions. Add the strong firepower of the lancer and protectorate...

I recall Paul Heaver explaining his y-wing stressbot as a zone of control ship, and Assajj is trading some of that control threat for maneuverability and ease of use.

Mindlink does have opportunity cost, but that opportunity cost is likely negligible given that there really aren't any better options.

True, you likelywouldn't see Syk mind link squads flying around the top 16. But that's because Mind link isn't strong enough to make up for weaknesses of that ship. It doesn't mean that Mindlink is fair and balanced. It means that other scum ships need to be better, and mind link also needs to be needed so that its on the level of other EPTs that scum can take.

Personally, I like the idea of making Mind link be a focus action and no limit to the amount of stress you can gain from it. That would make mind link be actually vulnerable to stress, instead of actually being very resistant to it(because you can just do a green and clear the whole squad). Maybe also make Mindlink small ship only. Taking it away from the JM5K might help balance it out.

Also obviously nerf the JM5K. Take away green hards and the turret primary. But allow it to purchase turrets. So if you want to attack out of arc, you gottabuy a turret.

1 hour ago, haritos said:

Hi guys, let me give you a short textbook definition before i pull my eyes out:

Opportunity Cost: the loss of other alternatives when one alternative is chosen.

In a world of finite time and resources, you can never, EVER say there is no opportunity cost to something. Please, it makes people who know what it means want to shoot themselves from frustration. To help you understand what I ment when I repeatedly reminded people that mindlink takes 3 EPTs slots, let me use an extensive example:

3 mindlinks give you +2 focus tokens. Other things equal you can say that a 3 ship fleet gets the equivalent of 5 actions out of mindlink for those 3 sacrificed EPTs and the point cost.

2 PTLs give +2 actions. So a 3 ship, other things equal would get literally 5 actions for 2 EPTs and 6 points.

The OPPORTUNITY cost EPT-wise here is that, in order to get those +2 focus, you lost access to an EPT, which you wouldn't have lost if you had taken PTL (at a steeper price)

Let me also say again that it is utterly ridiculous to try and claim one is better than the other, when clearly there are situations where mindlink is better, and others when PTL is better. But what the hell, keep trying.

There are also clearly situations where Marksmanship and Expose are better, too.

5 hours ago, Ram said:

We say that VI, Ptl etc are good, Crack shot is great etc and guess what? They are not selected. Mindlink is. Yes, scum ships are great. Jm5k is great. That does not in any way take away the fact that Mindlink is in my book the best upgrade in the game.

I am losing my faith in humanity right now. Not based only on this statement but from the several replies of people that actually admit that they use mindlink with specific ships, and for reasons a person using logic will never understand, they dont see that -duh!- its the ship that's broken, not the upgrade.

I will use the most extreme example because then maybe, just maybe you people will understand:

Lets say I have a ship with 4,4,4,4 stats that costs 20 points. You put PTL on it and its the most amazing, broken thing in the world. Your conclusion is that PTL is broken. We are yelling at you that no, its the ship that is amazing, else you would be using PTL on other lists. Your reply is " why would I ever use PTL on another ship when i can use it on this amazing 4,4,4,4 20 point ship ? PTL is bonkers with this ship and needs nerfing".

For some reason you think this is a valid answer . I seriously do not know how to reply to this statement due to it's absurdity being off the charts. I am really trying to understand what you are missing, believe me, I am.

If you put crack shot on that 4,4,4,4 ship, crackshot will be amazing on it.

If you put VI on that 4,4,4,4 ship, it will be amazing on it.

If you put mindlink on that 4,4,4,4 ship, it will be amazing on it.

If you do the opposite , things are not so amazing anymore.

Put mindlink on a misthunter, hm ok good.

put mindlink on brobots, hmm ok good.

put mindlink on starviper, hmm ok good.

So you have a ship that is performing spectacularly with a truckload of different upgrades, and an upgrade that only works on a specific trio of very specific ships.

How in the world does the conclusion you draw is that it's the upgrade that needs changing in the equation?

13 minutes ago, haritos said:

I am losing my faith in humanity right now. Not based only on this statement but from the several replies of people that actually admit that they use mindlink with specific ships, and for reasons a person using logic will never understand, they dont see that -duh!- its the ship that's broken, not the upgrade.

I will use the most extreme example because then maybe, just maybe you people will understand:

Lets say I have a ship with 4,4,4,4 stats that costs 20 points. You put PTL on it and its the most amazing, broken thing in the world. Your conclusion is that PTL is broken. We are yelling at you that no, its the ship that is amazing, else you would be using PTL on other lists. Your reply is " why would I ever use PTL on another ship when i can use it on this amazing 4,4,4,4 20 point ship ? PTL is bonkers with this ship and needs nerfing".

For some reason you think this is a valid answer . I seriously do not know how to reply to this statement due to it's absurdity being off the charts. I am really trying to understand what you are missing, believe me, I am.

If you put crack shot on that 4,4,4,4 ship, crackshot will be amazing on it.

If you put VI on that 4,4,4,4 ship, it will be amazing on it.

If you put mindlink on that 4,4,4,4 ship, it will be amazing on it.

If you do the opposite , things are not so amazing anymore.

Put mindlink on a misthunter, hm ok good.

put mindlink on brobots, hmm ok good.

put mindlink on starviper, hmm ok good.

So you have a ship that is performing spectacularly with a truckload of different upgrades, and an upgrade that only works on a specific trio of very specific ships.

How in the world does the conclusion you draw is that it's the upgrade that needs changing in the equation?

You realize it's possible for a ship and an upgrade to BOTH be too good? Mindlink's issue is NOT just the jumpmaster. It's also the protectorate and the shadowcaster. If you take away the contracted scouts EPT slot like some people want, guess what, doesn't affect manaroo in the slightest. Make the jumpmaster pilots all cost 2 more points, oh darn, now old fenaroo is "only" at 98 instead of 96. Fenn/palob/asajj from the top 4 at worlds? Doesn't even have a jumpmaster. Ditto Fenn/Asajj/Old T from the top 16.

There's no way they're going to nerf all 3 of the scum ships with green hard turns into oblivion, and honestly the shadowcaster and protectorate aren't really OP outside of mindlink lists. They're still GOOD, but probably not almost the entire meta like they currently are alongside the jumpmaster. The thing that makes mindlink so good is the ease of clearing stress on those 3 ships.

17 minutes ago, haritos said:

How in the world does the conclusion you draw is that it's [Mindlink] that needs changing in the equation [instead of JM5K]?

Or, at the very least, let's fix the one we know is broken, first (JM5K), since it's been broken through four attempts to nerf it, and then re-evaluate.

Maybe Mindlink is too good. It's possible. But we simply have no way of knowing, because all of the data also includes JM5Ks.