1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:I don't want to touch the incomplete logic on that with a 10 foot pole. Sadly, I can't tell if you're joking anymore or not either.
As evidenced by the 5 joke posts between the last serious post (mine) and your first post to the thread, it's a joke. He knows you're easy to rile up on this topic, so he's jokingly pushing your buttons
A lot of what has been said crossed my minds it's always good to get further opinions
Is it joking if people believe it
The sun is flat.
I don't know if the meta is changing (though it's certainly trying to, I suspect, in response to Worlds). The biggest changes will occur when wave 6 hits, and players are already experimenting with lists based on the known cards.
As far as Store Championships go, it's a little difficult to tell what impact may be had. In addition to the more casual atmosphere, Store Champs also bring in more casual players who may not be used to playing in a competition environment even with a powerful fleet such as the Rieekan Aces build from Worlds. And a lot of players who may not want to run that are also trying counters that their opponent's aren't as familiar with. As such, the general performance of a given list at Store Championships is harder to judge.
42 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:I don't know if the meta is changing (though it's certainly trying to, I suspect, in response to Worlds). The biggest changes will occur when wave 6 hits, and players are already experimenting with lists based on the known cards.
As far as Store Championships go, it's a little difficult to tell what impact may be had. In addition to the more casual atmosphere, Store Champs also bring in more casual players who may not be used to playing in a competition environment even with a powerful fleet such as the Rieekan Aces build from Worlds. And a lot of players who may not want to run that are also trying counters that their opponent's aren't as familiar with. As such, the general performance of a given list at Store Championships is harder to judge.
Having been beat up by one of those experiments in Sloane (just Sloane mind you, not the Quasar too), I'm still skeptical that Aceholes will be put down forever, but it will be much harder to run it once it arrives.
Just now, GiledPallaeon said:Having been beat up by one of those experiments in Sloane (just Sloane mind you, not the Quasar too), I'm still skeptical that Aceholes will be put down forever, but it will be much harder to run it once it arrives.
I'm running experiments myself. It's close, regardless of which interpretation of Sloane gets used. I'm finding if Ten Numb is along for the mustache ride, the Rebs tend to pull it out. Yavaris double tapping Numb is absolutely horrific to most of the wings Sloane is likely to bring.
4 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:Having been beat up by one of those experiments in Sloane (just Sloane mind you, not the Quasar too), I'm still skeptical that Aceholes will be put down forever, but it will be much harder to run it once it arrives.
Unless Wave 6 arrives in the next 1-2 weeks, I don't think we're going to see an impact on any events until at least July.
12 minutes ago, Truthiness said:I'm running experiments myself. It's close, regardless of which interpretation of Sloane gets used. I'm finding if Ten Numb is along for the mustache ride, the Rebs tend to pull it out. Yavaris double tapping Numb is absolutely horrific to most of the wings Sloane is likely to bring.
You're betting on a pair of one in four chances, a little bit better with Toryn around. I'm not convinced he's actually the solution (to Sloane), since I've watched him whiff at least three times in a row ( @MasterShake2 ), but he won't hurt to become an auto-include on that godforsaken list.
2 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:You're betting on a pair of one in four chances, a little bit better with Toryn around. I'm not convinced he's actually the solution (to Sloane), since I've watched him whiff at least three times in a row ( @MasterShake2 ), but he won't hurt to become an auto-include on that godforsaken list.
To be fair, you still lost all your squadrons ;). I feel like Sloane is more detrimental to non-Rieekan aces. ISDs are going to be hurting a lot more to getting their defense tokens screwed up than one of the myriad of character squadrons.
1 minute ago, MasterShake2 said:To be fair, you still lost all your squadrons ;). I feel like Sloane is more detrimental to non-Rieekan aces. ISDs are going to be hurting a lot more to getting their defense tokens screwed up than one of the myriad of character squadrons.
SHHHHHHH, that's not helping my point. And bleeding tokens is precisely why I think the dreadnoughts have a fighting chance (if a slim one) against the Aceholes, simply because they have the durability to lose their tokens and just take the damage. And I definitely agree Sloane's effect will hammer playstyles across the board. We'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out.
Just now, GiledPallaeon said:SHHHHHHH, that's not helping my point. And bleeding tokens is precisely why I think the dreadnoughts have a fighting chance (if a slim one) against the Aceholes, simply because they have the durability to lose their tokens and just take the damage. And I definitely agree Sloane's effect will hammer playstyles across the board. We'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out.
True, but I actually feel like Aceholes gets less hit than other builds by Sloane entering the Meta. Powering through the damage reduction and their fairly obscene output with Toryn, Adar and Yavaris is actually a way bigger problem than the squadrons having tokens and Sloanes doesn't answer that at all.
1 minute ago, MasterShake2 said:
True, but I actually feel like Aceholes gets less hit than other builds by Sloane entering the Meta. Powering through the damage reduction and their fairly obscene output with Toryn, Adar and Yavaris is actually a way bigger problem than the squadrons having tokens and Sloanes doesn't answer that at all.
I guess, its easier to take out Yavaris and Gallant and the ship Toryn is on at Range when you don't have Tokens to power through, mostly...
4 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:True, but I actually feel like Aceholes gets less hit than other builds by Sloane entering the Meta. Powering through the damage reduction and their fairly obscene output with Toryn, Adar and Yavaris is actually a way bigger problem than the squadrons having tokens and Sloanes doesn't answer that at all.
Less hit may still be a lot. A proper TIE swarm might actually be able to kill things now, as opposed to ineffectually wasting it's and everyone else's time. If anything is going to fiddle with the Acehole/Imperial matchup, I'd be more inclined to predict the Quasar and its cost-effective mass activations with boosts.
1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:I guess, its easier to take out Yavaris and Gallant and the ship Toryn is on at Range when you don't have Tokens to power through, mostly...
It is, but you still have to get fighters on target. Acehole players will be a little more conservative with their flotillas now lest they be sniped. For me, I've never had trouble murdering Yavaris , the trouble has always been getting to take down Gallant Haven too.
1 minute ago, GiledPallaeon said:Less hit may still be a lot. A proper TIE swarm might actually be able to kill things now, as opposed to ineffectually wasting it's and everyone else's time. If anything is going to fiddle with the Acehole/Imperial matchup, I'd be more inclined to predict the Quasar and its cost-effective mass activations with boosts.
It is, but you still have to get fighters on target. Acehole players will be a little more conservative with their flotillas now lest they be sniped. For me, I've never had trouble murdering Yavaris , the trouble has always been getting to take down Gallant Haven too.
Well, maybe that will help somewhat... Assault Frigates rely on each and every one of those non-redundant tokens... I'm mostly spitballing, because I have tournaments to worry about that are still scheduled and slated to be Pre Wave 6... So I don't want to speculate too far
11 hours ago, Drasnighta said:Well, maybe that will help somewhat... Assault Frigates rely on each and every one of those non-redundant tokens... I'm mostly spitballing, because I have tournaments to worry about that are still scheduled and slated to be Pre Wave 6... So I don't want to speculate too far
I mean, in wave 6, assault frigates and hammerheads will be the only thing taking boarders. Of course, hammerheads are the only ones who SHOULD be getting up close...
16 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:
True, but I actually feel like Aceholes gets less hit than other builds by Sloane entering the Meta. Powering through the damage reduction and their fairly obscene output with Toryn, Adar and Yavaris is actually a way bigger problem than the squadrons having tokens and Sloanes doesn't answer that at all.
Sloane (plus the Quasar) breaks the Gallant Haven / Mustache Ride shield. 4 Flight Controller-enhanced TIE Interceptors + Howlrunner + Mauler go after Biggs (activated by an expanded hangar bay Quasar). The basic TIEs are rolling 6 blues with swarm re-roll. Let's work through the math:
The odds of a TIE inteceptor rolling either a single accuracy or at least 3 hits on 6 dice + 1 reroll are VERY good. Biggs is going to either quickly lose his braces and get destroyed by damage, or he will be forced to push so much damage to his friends that THEY get popped by splash damage.
Consider the following results which represent sub-optimal rolling on the part of the Imperial player:
TIE 1: hit, hit, hit, crit, crit, crit: Biggs braces to 2, GH reduces to 1 damage, Biggs shifts 1 to Wedge
TIE 2: hit, hit, hit, crit, crit, crit: Biggs braces to 2, GH reduces to 1 damage, Biggs shifts 1 to Wedge
TIE 3: hit, hit, hit, crit, crit, crit: Biggs braces to 2 (loses brace 1), GH reduces to 1 damage, Biggs shifts 1 to Luke
TIE 4: hit, hit, hit, crit, crit, crit: Biggs braces to 2 (loses brace 2), GH reduces to 1 damage, Biggs shifts 1 to Luke
Biggs has no more braces left.
Howl: hit, hit, hit, crit: GH reduces by 1, Biggs takes 2 damage
Mauler: hit, hit, hit, crit, crit: GH reduces by 1, Biggs take 2 more damage and dies from Mauler's ability.
OR Biggs takes 1 damage and shifts one damage to Luke. Luke, Wedge, and Biggs all take 1 damage from mauler's ability.
Remaining hull: Biggs 1, Luke 1, Wedge 2
Quasar then fires and uses ruthless strategists 3 times, killing Luke and Biggs, and reducing Wedge to 1. If the Quasar has Kallus, Wedge might be a goner too.
Now, let's consider if any **one** of those initial salvos rolled an accuracy with Sloane:
TIE 1: hit, hit, hit, accuracy, crit, crit: TIE spends 1 brace, Biggs braces with the other one to 2 damage, GH reduces to 1 damage, Biggs shifts 1 to Wedge
TIE 2: hit, hit, hit, crit, crit, crit: Biggs burns a brace to brace to 2, GH reduces to 1 damage, Biggs shifts 1 to Wedge
TIE 3: hit, hit, hit, crit, crit, crit: Biggs burns his remaining brace to brace 2, GH reduces to 1 damage, Biggs shifts 1 to Luke
TIE 4: hit, hit, hit, crit, crit, crit: Biggs has no more braces. GH reduces to 2 damage, Biggs takes it.
Howl: hit, hit, hit, crit: GH reduces to 2 damage. Biggs take 1, shifts 1 to Luke
Mauler moves in and does 1 damage to everyone
Remaining hull: Biggs 1, Luke 2, Wedge 2
Mauler kills biggs. Quasar fire shoots and uses Ruthless strategists to bring Luke/Wedge down to 1 hull each (possibly killing them if Kallus is in play). If the survivors of Red squadron want to shoot back, they either have to contend with the scatter tokens of the aces, or the counter 3 (with swarm) of the interceptors.
The Gallant Haven "rock" of Red Squadron relies on ample use of brace tokens. Sloane's ability to flip those braces and burn them out early means that the Imperials can alpha-strike and knock out red squadron in a very cost-efficient way (75 pts of squadrons and 74 pts of ship/upgrades, including Kallus vs 58 pts of squadrons and 80 pts of ship+upgrades => 149 pts vs 138 pts). Once Red Squadron goes down, the rest of the situation gets very dicey.
6 minutes ago, scipio83 said:*snip*
. . . you forgot about Jan.
12 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:. . . you forgot about Jan.
I usually see her hanging out with Ten, Keyan, Dutch, Norra, etc instead of Red Squadron. If she's bunched up over with Gallant Haven and crew, then the quasar can simply launch this same attack against the main bombers instead and cripple the striking power of the list. They won't have escort/biggs to move the damage around.
2 TIE interceptors enhanced by Howl/FCs can pretty easily deal at least 3 damage in a single attack. An ace like Ten or Norra can brace that to 2. So 4 TIE interceptors plus mauler and howl can probably reduce a group like Ten, Norra, and Dutch to 1-2 health each in a single alpha strike. Then the Quasar fires and uses Kallus/Ruthless strategists to finish them all off.