So three store championships in and the best Rekieean aces has managed is 3rd. Further demolished seems to be on the decline. Is this just that those in the south east are as crazy as cats and no way represents the represent no other region or is there a disturbance in the meta?

Could also be that the "Meta" itself is a fallicy in that regards.

Or Worlds was an Anomaly brought on by people specifically looking to skew it a certain way.

Or a lot of the "panic" has been unfounded, because we're just supercool that way.

Or it could indeed be shifting, especially in anticipation of what Wave 6 may bring.

It may be acceptance of things, and the ability to move forward.

It could be the difference in competition lengths and thus the ability to match-up....

I guess, in the end, this is why I am against Negativity and Panic. Its virtually impossible to predict a **** thing with Armada and its players... sure, occasionally, you can get a broad prediction "correct" and be "right" about it... But its fleeting, and there are always, always far too many variables in all of these things to predct logically.

I mean, sure. I predicted the 1st Turn Nose Punch would eventually be a thing for example... What I didn't expect was it to be a thing because a Title made it so on the Quasar... I thought people would work for it like I did

I think Store Championships are a chance to break out of the meta and do fun things, so I would chalk some of the reports up to that. I personally wouldn't view Store Championships as a big indicator of current meta.

To be honest, I actually wouldn't necessarily view any tournament under 4 rounds as an accurate measure of meta lists, as 3 round Swiss is too swingy. I don't think it's a black and white answer, but there's certainly a lot more swing in a 3 round tournament that allows less meta-conforming lists to rise farther (further?) than they might otherwise.

I would venture to say store championships bring more casual players out as not everyone can travel to worlds. Its a good spring board to test out ideas before regionals which then allow others to rise to the top. If your going to spend the money to travel to worlds and stay 3 days, your going to bring a heavy hitting list like ace holes because you are trying to take advantage of everything to win.

For us, here where we're just lucky to find someone who owns Armada ships, "meta" has little meaning. People just kind of bring what they think might be interesting. Our store championship had a whole variety of things. I would give a +1 to the sentiment that there are so many variables and so many different ways to fly ships that it's tough to pin down what will work and how it will work best and if or if not it will dominate.

In the end, since I've resigned myself to probably never doing anything more competitive than a store championship, the meta makes little difference to how I enjoy the game. I've also decided that I'm not going to let the game dictate to me how to play and have fun. I'll use the ships I want to use and have a blast doing it no matter what everyone else is doing. Flying the same fleet over and over because it has the best current combos gets to be a little old after awhile.

I guess my point is.. don't worry about metas! Have fun with your ships! I found that worrying about how good I was and comparing myself to everyone else was ruining my enjoyment of the game. It's a struggle but I'm really trying to just have fun and fly my ships around. If they all blow up.. well then I'll have fun getting them blown up!

As an aside.. I do realize that those of you into serious competition need to be concerned about this stuff.. the rest of us? eh.. probably not.. just a point of view from a casual player

I also agree that SCs are a bit more casual, and it's hard to say any non-regional tournament under 4 rounds really indicates much as far as meta goes, just because match ups are a much larger factor in that environment. It is also interesting because you tend to play people from your local area, who are more tuned in to how you play the game.

For instance, in our recent Store Championship in NC, round 1 I played a player from Virginia who was new to the game. The eventual winner of the tournament, who had a bye, and myself were talking to my opponent about consequences of moves, and what to expect, and to explain what the capabilities of my ships were and how to handle things. Dude ended up beating me 6-5, fair and square, but I would never sit there and explain how to best move to anyone at a more competitive tournament. I went on to beat a local player I play a ton, and therefore know how to play against, and then went against another local player, one who again I play against and we go back and forth against each other, and lost that one.

In some ways, the SCs are more fun, because there are more of them, and therefore are more willing to try newer, wackier things than you would at say, a regional, where you may only get to make one.

In short, NO until Wave 6 hits.

However, as the People's Game, in a 3 Round Sprint, matchups can lead to any kind of list winning. I think it let's the casual gamer play whatever and have an opportunity to win it all. Which I am a huge fan of. That being said, winning a SC in your hobby is a satisfying and achievable event.

I would argue that Regional Data and above are better indicators of the meta.

I may get garbage for this comment but at Regionals and above I would not ask my opponent for missed opportunities and would not want to be put on the spot being asked the question. It's not that I don't like people but at those levels it's kinda serious... as I've written many times... Regionals and above is very stressful for me.

SC are relaxing and a good way to test things.

I think people want to play things other than Rieekan aces, which is a boring list to play since it's like hitting the "auto win" button in most match ups.

Also, in NC, I think there was at least 5 of the 9 lists with Demo in it.

Yes. It is changing constantly. Thats why its called meta.

might be because there are more casual players in store championships. Might also be because people got a bit disgusted by the omnipresence of rieekan at world's and wanted to try something else.

I would say that the Store Championship data is more a curiosity than anything. Compared to the Regionals data the primary benefit will be the increased sample size.

I'd love to see the structure changed for both Regionals and SCs so that more of them involved a cut and final match.

See what happens at Europeans

8 Games before Cut is going to be brutal

2 hours ago, WuFame said:

I think Store Championships are a chance to break out of the meta and do fun things, so I would chalk some of the reports up to that. I personally wouldn't view Store Championships as a big indicator of current meta.

To be honest, I actually wouldn't necessarily view any tournament under 4 rounds as an accurate measure of meta lists, as 3 round Swiss is too swingy. I don't think it's a black and white answer, but there's certainly a lot more swing in a 3 round tournament that allows less meta-conforming lists to rise farther (further?) than they might otherwise.

WuFame I think nailed it here. I would also add that there's more of a win at all costs feel to anything Regionals and above. Many people can hit up multiple store championships. That's not really the case with Regionals. I know I for one am more winning to experiment with crazy untested lists once I've won a Store Championship for the season.

The meta is changed.
I taste it in the squadrons.
I feel it in the lists.
I smell it at the top tables.
Much that once was is lost; for few now live who remember it.

The winds of change are changing.....

The Meta is a-changin'

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the Meta
Around you has grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be bombing no one.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better bench Rieekan'
Or you'll get sunk by Sloane
For the Meta is a-changin'.

*Harmonica*

4 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

The Meta is a-changin'

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the Meta
Around you has grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be bombing no one.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better bench Rieekan'
Or you'll get sunk by Sloane
For the Meta is a-changin'.

*Harmonica*

If you're doing the Dylan version, it's too comprehensible.

That's the problem when I play Dylan covers, you can always understand what I am saying and it kinda ruins it.

That said, it is actually freaky how well that whole thing fit. Have to bust out my harmonica rack when I get home and do a ditty.

uhm. I predicted it. Can't predict? Laughable? Some sort of crazy conspiracy to purposely skew the meta? Wow. You guys are really going full conspiracy theory.

Top of worlds, both finalist, 6/8top. 5 ship 2 combat 3 flotillas, mass bombers, Rebel, Rieekan, BCC, Toryn, Adar Tallon, Yavaris, FCT.

(No the Pelta was never the main part of the puzzle. It has the firepower of 3 red dice out the front, that's approx 2 Bwings without! BCC. )

22 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

uhm. I predicted it. Can't predict? Laughable? Some sort of crazy conspiracy to purposely skew the meta? Wow. You guys are really going full conspiracy theory.

Top of worlds, both finalist, 6/8top. 5 ship 2 combat 3 flotillas, mass bombers, Rebel, Rieekan, BCC, Toryn, Adar Tallon, Yavaris, FCT.

(No the Pelta was never the main part of the puzzle. It has the firepower of 3 red dice out the front, that's approx 2 Bwings without! BCC. )

Nope, it's not winning store champs. Thus its no longer a viable build, time to retire it.

4 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Yes. It is changing constantly. Thats why its called mutant.

28 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Nope, it's not winning store champs. Thus its no longer a fun build, time to retire it.

FTFY

Just now, pt106 said:

FTFY

I mean, I have fun running it, but that might be because no one around here usually runs significant amounts of squadrons to stop me/it. Stupid Quasar, stop helping!

1 hour ago, geek19 said:

Nope, it's not winning store champs. Thus its no longer a viable build, time to retire it.

I don't want to touch the incomplete logic on that with a 10 foot pole. Sadly, I can't tell if you're joking anymore or not either.