Card interaction questions

By ThadiusZho, in Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game

Some questions I've been thinking about.

Borderland Fortifications: If my opponent is attacking my stronghold, can I use Borderland Fortifications to move my stronghold? And if the Borderland Fortifications were on a broken province, would I have to discard my SH at the end of the turn (and thus, lose the game?)

If I target a non-honored character to honor, can my opponent use his Young Rumormonger to redirect that honor to an already honored character? Can I pay Spies at Court's dishonor with a dishonored character? If I use For Shame! on an already dishonored character, does my opponent HAVE to bow it? Basically, can I target an honored character to honor, or a dishonored character to dishonor?

If I change the 1st conflict type my opponent declares using Mori Kuroi, can he, in the second conflict, declare only the previously undeclared conflict type, or the previously unfinished conflict type?

Shameful Display: Can I use this ability if I didn't declare any defenders, and the opponent only has 1 attacker?

Seeker of Knowledge: If I'm attacking and win the conflict, do I choose if I get the Air ring or the original ring? Or do I always get the original ring and can use the effect of either?


Any interaction that someone else has doubts about?

5 minutes ago, ThadiusZho said:

Some questions I've been thinking about.

Borderland Fortifications: If my opponent is attacking my stronghold, can I use Borderland Fortifications to move my stronghold? And if the Borderland Fortifications were on a broken province, would I have to discard my SH at the end of the turn (and thus, lose the game?)

If I target a non-honored character to honor, can my opponent use his Young Rumormonger to redirect that honor to an already honored character? Can I pay Spies at Court's dishonor with a dishonored character? If I use For Shame! on an already dishonored character, does my opponent HAVE to bow it? Basically, can I target an honored character to honor, or a dishonored character to dishonor?

If I change the 1st conflict type my opponent declares using Mori Kuroi, can he, in the second conflict, declare only the previously undeclared conflict type, or the previously unfinished conflict type?

Shameful Display: Can I use this ability if I didn't declare any defenders, and the opponent only has 1 attacker?

Seeker of Knowledge: If I'm attacking and win the conflict, do I choose if I get the Air ring or the original ring? Or do I always get the original ring and can use the effect of either?


Any interaction that someone else has doubts about?

Okay, I'll give these a try

Borderland Fortifications: No. Reasoning as follows. you attach [Province cards] to each of your four [Provinces] and your [Stronghold]. A [Province] can also hold a [Dynasty Card] and a [Stronghold] must also hold a [Stronghold card]. You can only switch Borderlands Fortifications with the contents of a [Province], not a [Stronghold]

Targeting of Honouring effects: There has already been a ruling that you can't choose a bowed character to fulfill a 'bow a character' cost, so I would assume that a similar ruling will be made for 'dishonour a character' etc.

Mori Kuroi: Less sure of this, but I think the unfinished type. If you change the element of an attack, you can later choose the original element, so I would expect this to be the same.

Shameful Display: No. You have to choose two characters first, and that step is impossible.

Seeker of Knowledge: Always get the original. The winner claims the [Ring token] for the conflict, and the original token is not changed at all.

2 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Okay, I'll give these a try

Borderland Fortifications: No. Reasoning as follows. you attach [Province cards] to each of your four [Provinces] and your [Stronghold]. A [Province] can also hold a [Dynasty Card] and a [Stronghold] must also hold a [Stronghold card]. You can only switch Borderlands Fortifications with the contents of a [Province], not a [Stronghold]

Targeting of Honouring effects: There has already been a ruling that you can't choose a bowed character to fulfill a 'bow a character' cost, so I would assume that a similar ruling will be made for 'dishonour a character' etc.

Mori Kuroi: Less sure of this, but I think the unfinished type. If you change the element of an attack, you can later choose the original element, so I would expect this to be the same.

Shameful Display: No. You have to choose two characters first, and that step is impossible.

Seeker of Knowledge: Always get the original. The winner claims the [Ring token] for the conflict, and the original token is not changed at all.

On the borderland fortifications, I agree that the answer is going to be probably no. But I disagree with Karasu explanation, Stronghold sits upon a province. For now rules technically will allow it , cause all it talks about is switch a card between provinces and the stronghold sits upon a province... whether their will be a rulebook restriction for moving strongholds around provinces we shall see, or declare the stronghold 'not a card' in some way.

Honouring effect, normally depend on effect versus cost restrictions. If you can not honour/rehonour as a cost it will not be allowed. But causing the honouring effect on an already honoured character is normally allowed. But rules need to be clarified.

Mori Kuri is tough, cause it depends on whether you look at the choice at beginning of conflict or end of conflict. So if you choose military option at the beginning the fact it changes type during conflict, may not alter what you can choose later. If however it looks at what the final conflict was at end on conflict and basis you next choice off that then you will choose the opposite. Or it could be a hard and fast rule only 1 military and 1 political and all effect that would alter this are cancelled. So if with Mori Kuri you wanted to change from a military to political but a political had already been declared it would have no effect. So after that long ramble I believe that it is going to be about declared not what you end up fighting. i.e. allowed to declare 1 political, 1 military. Change during conflict does not alter this.

But wiser better people will probably disagree.

Agree with other 2.

Honor/dishonor is different than bowing, since they have tokens. So it could be possible pile up of honor once the leave play.

2 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

Honor/dishonor is different than bowing, since they have tokens. So it could be possible pile up of honor once the leave play.

Honour/dishonour is a 'state'... can not be doubly honoured. Only, dishonoured/honoured and 'normal'. Thus just like you cannot be double bowed as a cost....

2 hours ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

On the borderland fortifications, I agree that the answer is going to be probably no. But I disagree with Karasu explanation, Stronghold sits upon a province. For now rules technically will allow it , cause all it talks about is switch a card between provinces and the stronghold sits upon a province... whether their will be a rulebook restriction for moving strongholds around provinces we shall see, or declare the stronghold 'not a card' in some way.

The crafting a dynasty article specifically states that a Stronghold is "attached" to a province and is therefore not "in" a province like the other dynasty cards.

Borderlands Fortification specifies that you can choose a card that is "in" a province to switch with. As the Stronghold is not "in" a province, it is not a legal target.

So I would have to say no the rules do not allow you to swap Borderlands Fortification with your stronghold.

2 hours ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

Honour/dishonour is a 'state'... can not be doubly honoured. Only, dishonoured/honoured and 'normal'. Thus just like you cannot be double bowed as a cost....

Honored is a state, yes. But I'm not quite talking about being "Doubly honored". I'm looking at the tokens, and that if you are honored a second time, does it just give you a second token, which means you get +2 honor when leaving play, it doesn't "Double Honor" you it just makes you more honorable. As in you don't get 2x the glory, since you are honored already, but you get the forced interrupt effect twice.

Just my thought of a possibility.

32 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

The crafting a dynasty article specifically states that a Stronghold is "attached" to a province and is therefore not "in" a province like the other dynasty cards.

Borderlands Fortification specifies that you can choose a card that is "in" a province to switch with. As the Stronghold is not "in" a province, it is not a legal target.

So I would have to say no the rules do not allow you to swap Borderlands Fortification with your stronghold.

If 'attached' and not 'in' then agreed... never thought it would be allowed, though one way or another.

10 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

Honored is a state, yes. But I'm not quite talking about being "Doubly honored". I'm looking at the tokens, and that if you are honored a second time, does it just give you a second token, which means you get +2 honor when leaving play, it doesn't "Double Honor" you it just makes you more honorable. As in you don't get 2x the glory, since you are honored already, but you get the forced interrupt effect twice.

Just my thought of a possibility.

I think that honoured is a state, if a cost is attributed you can't honour again. But as an effect you could get bonuses....

8 minutes ago, Isawa Tasatu said:

I think that honoured is a state, if a cost is attributed you can't honour again. But as an effect you could get bonuses....

Honor is a state, as far as I can tell. I just mean if you honor someone a second time, you just get another token that gives more honor when the character leaves the field of play. There are 20 cards of state in the box, making the assumption that these are honor/dishonor cards since we haven't seen any other state tokens. That feels like a lot, if it's impossible to double up on that forced interrupt affect when they leave.

But that's just probably me reading too much into it.

While I agree these are all interesting questions, and we can definitely guess at some answers at them, we don't have the rules yet, so the answer is "We don't know yet". So keep that in mind.

I think the proposed answers are reasonable suggestions, and typically there are stipulations in the rules for things things like being able to pay the cost (Can't bow a bowed target to pay a cost). However, we don't know yet if we can honor an honorable target (to no effect), or bow a bowed target, and I could see them doing either way.