Hello,

i play overun on jet trooper ... are each jet trooper in the group effected by the card or only one?

You play command cards on a figure, not to a deployment card.

(Overrun affects only the figure you play it on.)

Also, branching off of that, if your Jet Trooper overruns someone with 1 health left, they can't end their move in that character's space, even though that character was defeated right?

24 minutes ago, RogueLieutenant said:

Also, branching off of that, if your Jet Trooper overruns someone with 1 health left, they can't end their move in that character's space, even though that character was defeated right?

Yes

To be exact, they can end movement (stop spending movement points) in the now-empty space, but they cannot enter the space with their last movement point while there still is a figure there.

got it.

So lets say a jet trooper using Overrun has 3 movement points.

There are three 1 health enemies standing directly in front of him.

The Jet can move forward two, and kill the first two, ending its movement in the second space. But could not move all three and end its movement in the last spot.

Why is that? That sounds really weird.

You can only enter a space with another figure if you have enough movement points to end movement in an empty space.

Overrun is triggered only when you enter the space, which you cannot legally do if it would spend your last movement points. I.e. you can not depend on Overrun defeating the figure.

RRG, Movement said:

· Figures can move through other figures' spaces. The figure
must spend one additional movement point to enter a space
containing a hostile figure. Some abilities allow figures to move
through spaces containing blocking and impassable terrain.

The definition of "moving through a space" is that the figure
can enter the space as long as it does not end its movement
in the space. The figure cannot enter the space if this would
spend its last movement point.

See also:

Weird. Just feels like a "bug" in the rules. I don't like when things are worded in a way that creates unintuitive niche cases that are hard to remember like that.

The figure being defeated from Overrun is the niche case.

Nothing unintuitive in that you use the exact same movement rules always. You cannot make exceptions to movement rules with information from future events which may not even happen.

It feels nonintuitive because the figure dying would immediately make it a valid square - the validity check happens a nanosecond earlier than you'd expect, so you have to know about very specific wordings from a specific paragraph instead of it just working the obvious way.

I understand why they wrote it that way, they felt like they would have to explain how to undo an invalid move otherwise - if you check validity at the end of your move then it's already too late to take back entering that square??? - but it still feels like a clunky way to write a rule. I feel like it could have been worded differently to make all cases work as expected, and maybe they'll still errata it to make more sense.

The IA rulebook honestly has several weird exceptions like this that get on my nerves, where it feels like they had to "patch" a rule for some special case and now it's more abstract and wording-dependent than it needs to be. It's a little more complex to know all the rules than it really needs to be; a little too easy to miss niche cases.

What exceptions?

The rules are to be interpreted literally and you rarely have any issues.

The only problems I see are that not everything related to a topic is under the topic, and a few rules are only found from the Campaign Guide and Learn to Play. (The FAQ helps a bit.)

There are ability interactions that may produce unexpected results. I would not call those exceptions, because they follow the rules, and there are very few (if any) exceptions that you need to remember in the rules.

About Overrun and moving through figures: I still ask you to explain how you are supposed to be predicting future events. You don't know the figure will be defeated by Overrun, because it is possible for figures to recover damage in various ways. In the campaign it is possible to not be defeated and recover damage through class cards or agenda cards, and some current or future command card (Miracle Worker) and ability combination could do it in skirmish too. Also, it would be even more confusing if you would use different rules (ie. exceptions) for campaign and skirmish , or you can do something differently depending on whether your opponent has MHD-19 in play .

I'd say movement and line of sight are the things with the most weird edge cases - you spend movement points a certain way except when it's a special action or not your turn or the movement is worded one of a few different ways, you count range a certain way except when the walls are drawn certain ways or you're targeting a door, etc. It's all subjective of course but to me it feels a little too much like spaghetti code sometimes, to think about it from a computer programming perspective - ideally there'd be just a few less things to remember.

17 hours ago, MythicalMothman said:

I'd say movement and line of sight are the things with the most weird edge cases - you spend movement points a certain way except when it's a special action or not your turn or the movement is worded one of a few different ways, you count range a certain way except when the walls are drawn certain ways or you're targeting a door, etc. It's all subjective of course but to me it feels a little too much like spaghetti code sometimes, to think about it from a computer programming perspective - ideally there'd be just a few less things to remember.

That's definitely true - it is a very complicated game, with a lot of moving and interacting parts, and combinations arise that do not always resolve intuitively.

Of the things you mention, I think the Special Action movement point rule is a bit odd. It seems like a more intuitive ruling would be that you just add them to your pool as normal. I don't know why they decided not too; it adds an exception to the rules and I don't really see anything that would break if they didn't add it. Do you have any idea why they have the special action movement point rule, @ a1bert?

Also doors. Doors are just a mess when it comes to intuition and exceptions. I think if they ever do a version 2 of this game, they should just make doors take up a full 2 spaces and let them follow all the normal adjacency and LOS rules.

Line of Sight rules are a bit unintuitive and pretty forgiving (as in, it's relatively easy to draw LOS around things), but they are pretty consistent at least.

I can make a guess. The designers probably wanted something that would be like move X spaces but with extra movement costs. The majority of movement as part of special action abilities are move X spaces, and thus automatically happen immediately.

Gaining movement points outside of your activation feels to me very intuitive.

I have never had issues with line of sight. LoS seem to follow "I see you" pretty well. It is quite hard to escape line of sight when you want to, which is both good and bad.

Doors are special objects, yes. There are advantages and disadvantages in the doors being on the edges of spaces.

I ran this question past Todd (FFG) a while back and he confirmed the you cannot use your last movement point to kill a figure with Overrun (found in the thread linked above).

I would, at least at the time, have preferred it to have been different, but I can see a merit to keeping the use of the rules literal, as a1bert suggests.

The effect would probably not have caused this question to pop up again and again, if Overrun had been worded like Davith's somewhat similar ability to hurt figures when passing them (his does the damage when you exit the space). But then again, the Overrun is from a time when there were no non-Massive vehicles, making it a non-issue; and should anyone - imagine that! - actually play massive vehicles again in the future (maybe with Heart of the Empire...), then the current wording does give them a small yet much needed boost over the Jet Troopers (as being Massive they're not restricted from using their last movement point to step on someone's wigglies).