5 hours ago, CRCL said:

It's just the stupidity of the Scum faction and all it's power creep that's hurting the game for me. Any time I get to play an Imperial vs Rebel, Rebel vs Rebel, or Imperial vs Imperial match-up, I have a great time.

I'm still of the opinion that the biggest mistake FFG made with X-wing was adding the third faction instead of just divvying it up in to the original two factions, Armada style.

I disagree; a 3rd faction makes the game more dynamic and interesting that only having 2 sides.

3 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

It boils down to this game period is just poorly balanced and ffg has proven pretty well, with xwm at least, they can't balance a game with 3 factions that was created to support 2. The core mechanics themselves were made to be point/counterpoint between reb and imp. Then people cried I want bh's and pirates and they had to shoe horn a third balance that turned into power creep. So many bad choices have been made dancing around scum or buffing them to be playable. Scum was the death of this game it is just dying slowly and painfully over it.

S&V has horribly imbalanced the game, I would agree, but I think it is for a very different reason.

Rebs and Imps are pretty well defined in what they should and should not have. Which means S&V is the "try anything" faction, because they have no "political/military" parameters associated with them. Unfortunately, these S&V experiments have created a wild card faction that is uninhibited by the need to be "Rebel" or "Imperial" and are thus now overpowered.

8 hours ago, banjobenito said:

Personally, my interest in the game has really dwindled since this time last year. The design space is feeling very claustrophobic, the new wave seems uninspired, and the meta keeps coming back to turrets and big ships, stuck in a loop predetermined by the mechanics of the game. I'm even thinking of culling my collection down, to only a few key pieces, so I can still play a game if the fancy takes me. I'm actually yearning for an X-Wing 2.0 in the near future, hopefully taking the best innovations from armada and runewars.

Same here, but for different reasons. For me, the game is emotionally dead. . .I bought it to play Star Wars as a space ship-based miniatures game. I bought in for the excitement of playing in a universe I have loved since I was a kid. Five years and 11 waves in there is still no Yoda, Obi-Wan, Darth Maul, Prequel ships, campaigns, Blue Squadron X-Wings, and a whole lot of other things that would make me excited to play this game even if it was not perfectly balanced.

Instead, I get an obscure TIE clearly released to plug a hole in a math-and-meta driven, barely SW themed, add more bricks, mortar the cracks, rinse and repeat, not-necessarily-for-SW-fans game.

Imperial flavor is "arc-dodgers." Rebel flavor is "tanks." Scum flavor is "dirty tricks," but you can't really create a ship based on that. Card abilities, sure--but not a ship. As a result, they basically have the same ships as Rebels and Imperials, but with a twist--which in a lot of cases just means Scum ships are better than their counterparts (YV vs Lamda, JM5K vs YTs, Fang vs Interceptors, Shadowcaster vs Falcon, Firespray vs Firespray, G-1A vs B-Wing, HWK vs HWK, and so on). Granted, a couple of those are just because their counterparts were shockingly underpowered, but...you get the point.

To answer the OP's question simply...no.

The four things nerfed were all clearly being overused because they were amazing for the cost, not to mention very little drawback for using them.

You could argue if they went too far or not with the nerfs, but the nerfs were clearly needed to encourage more choices to think about when list building.

FFG for the most part has resorted to buffs rather than nerfs when fixing elements of the game that are broken. Most people clearly favor buffs because hey, it's cooler having new toys and tricks than losing them.

But isn't that how power creep begins? If you mainly try fixing everything below instead of what is on top everything just keeps getting more and more powerful.

So while buffs are more fun, i would rather see more nerfs to balance the game personally.

9 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

... By that time, Mindlink will probably be small ship only.

3 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

It follows the pattern of FFG and there clearly is a problem. That's not how I would fix the situation, but that's how I think they will try to fix it.

2 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

It follows the pattern of FFG and there clearly is a problem. That's not how I would fix the situation, but that's how I think they will try to fix it.

Quote

Winner

(#12) Justin Phua (Singapore)

• 100 points
• Dengar + Expertise + Extra Munitions + Plasma Torpedoes + K4 Security Droid + Unhinged Astromech + Guidance Chips + Punishing One
• Tel Trevura + Veteran Instincts + Extra Munitions + Plasma Torpedoes + K4 Security Droid + Unhinged Astromech + Guidance Chips

6 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

What's the point? There were 33 Mindlink cards in the top 16. Justin's list is a different archetype than them and has no reflection on Mindlink.

I suspect that they could undo the Emperor nerf without too much fuss, if they haven´ t started printing new editions of the Raider, that is. I think it may have been that step too far for Imperial players that forced them into other factions.

I don't think the Emperor nerf made much difference - he'll be back almost as good as ever when the ships that take best advantage are viable again. He's awesome in Tippetts top 16 squad for example.

Based on the low performance of Imperials in the last three System Opens and Worlds, I would say the game is worse off currently then it was before.

Prediction for the new FAQ:

The Attanni Mindlink change:

"You may only equip this card if your attack value is 2 or less."

Cuts out most of the large ships, still lets Manaroo have it, excludes Protectorates (sadly Kihraxzs and G-1As too but no fix is without its collateral damage).

And we'll also see an Extra Munitions change:

"Small ship only."

It's a good way to reduce the number of non-primary attacks the JM5K can take, or up their point cost by 1 which can make a somewhat significant difference in what fits. Sadly this'll largely catch bomb-carrying Firesprays (i.e. Emon, does anyone use those though?) in the crossfire, but see above. I think literally 0 people use torpedoes on the Ghost, so it's not hurting them. I guess ordnance Decimators also lose out here too. And... that's it, no other large ships can take EM, so it's a fairly focused strike.

3 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Based on the low performance of Imperials in the last three System Opens and Worlds, I would say the game is worse off currently then it was before.

All 3 system opens were within like a week of the palp and x7 nerfs, so my bet a large part of that was just a reaction to the nerfs and people picking up different factions instead of flying the same (nerfed) imperial lists or trying to find something new on fairly short notice. And Imperials still made the cut at 2 of the 3, and palp himself made the cut at worlds. Not a huge showing, but they're still there. And they've been doing quite well in store champ season so far.

Just now, Sparklelord said:

Prediction for the new FAQ:

The Attanni Mindlink change:

"You may only equip this card if your attack value is 2 or less."

Cuts out most of the large ships, still lets Manaroo have it, excludes Protectorates (sadly Kihraxzs and G-1As too but no fix is without its collateral damage).

And we'll also see an Extra Munitions change:

"Small ship only."

It's a good way to reduce the number of non-primary attacks the JM5K can take, or up their point cost by 1 which can make a somewhat significant difference in what fits. Sadly this'll largely catch bomb-carrying Firesprays (i.e. Emon, does anyone use those though?) in the crossfire, but see above. I think literally 0 people use torpedoes on the Ghost, so it's not hurting them. I guess ordnance Decimators also lose out here too. And... that's it, no other large ships can take EM, so it's a fairly focused strike.

That's...one of the worst mindlink "fixes" I've seen suggested. It cuts out like half the ships in the faction. Including the ones that don't need to lose access (G1A, kihraxz, starviper, YV666, firespray...)

I can't imagine we'll see an extra munitions change. It seems to be fine. More likely to see a sabine nerf (which wouldn't exactly break my heart).

I fully expect a mindlink nerf soon. I would guess adding a range component is the most likely route.

31 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I don't think the Emperor nerf made much difference - he'll be back almost as good as ever when the ships that take best advantage are viable again. He's awesome in Tippetts top 16 squad for example.

Indeed, the Emperor nerf is not a problem.

It's been commented before that the gold standard for balance of the game should be the 'standard TIE Fighter swarm'. Pre-nerf Emperor and x7 were WAY beyond that. Post-nerf...well, still beyond it, but at least in the same ballpark, now.

Where the problem comes in isn't that this nerf 'went too far' - it is that things still remain in the game that are much more valuable than their points indicate (the toilet seats), and so those are becoming more prominent as a result.

25 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

All 3 system opens were within like a week of the palp and x7 nerfs, so my bet a large part of that was just a reaction to the nerfs and people picking up different factions instead of flying the same (nerfed) imperial lists or trying to find something new on fairly short notice. And Imperials still made the cut at 2 of the 3, and palp himself made the cut at worlds. Not a huge showing, but they're still there. And they've been doing quite well in store champ season so far.

Still plenty of time for people to adapt for for System Opens, but it didn't happen. Top 16 at Worlds isn't dead, but it's not exactly healthy either. Considering the nature of Store Champ metas, I don't see them as as strong data points as the System Opens and Worlds. If the current Store Champ performance manages to carry to higher tier tournaments, I'll change my tune. But until then, I'm still on the side of those who think the Great Nerfing did more harm than good.

Our region's 1st Store championship winner: Fenn - Mindlink, Title, AT, Palob - TLT, Mindlink, Asajj - Latts, Mindlink 99 pts

Efficiency through the roof, covers all the angles - A turret ship with token control, a 180 degree arc ship who controls the board with his free stress and tanks attacks really well with the crew choice, and the best ace in the game right now.

Its definitely a tough list to beat. The only one that came really close I believe was 5 Heavy Scyks (tractor, hlc, 3x manglers) who made top 4 but had to replay against the mindlink beast right away (1st and 4th swiss placement respectively) and lost again to it.

In another part of our Province, a list of 4 rebels took home the victory against mostly scum builds (2 of the top builds were the 98 pts worlds winner list): Thane Kyrell - Plasma Torp, Guidance, R5X3, Title, Tail Gunner, Biggs R4D6 IA, Jess M9G8 IA and Rex.

Scum are everywhere, Imperials fall off the top tables really fast and rebels still manage to sneak in and sometimes pull off a great victory.

Back in my day. We played x-wing minis made out of rocks and sticks. And we liked it.

4 hours ago, phild0 said:

I am definitely of the mind that the biggest cause for concern are the dials of the 3 strong Scum ships (Protectorate, JM5K, Lancer, but especially JM5K), especially compared to their cost effeciency and dials of similar ships in other factions. Add in the Boosts and Barrel rolls, and these ships become incredibly tough to out play and out action economy when they run Attani Mindlink.

It is like FFG made the JM5K without factoring the dial and barrel roll into the cost. Just the opposite of the the 4 White K-Turn of original Defenders.

This!

The big downside of Attani mindlink was meant to be the shared stress. However when you have:

- The Lancer - which never needs to do a red maneuver, has green hard turns, and has a mobile firing arc

- The Jumpmaster - which never needs to do a red maneuver, has green hard turns, and is a turret

- And the Protectorate - which sometimes does red maneuvers but has a green hard turns

...the downside doesn't really look like a downside at all!

I thought Attani Mindlink wasn't overpowered, and I think I was right - when it was first released. It's only the addition of multiple, highly cost-efficient ships with green hard turns that's broken it.

8 hours ago, Jarval said:

I'm on a 4 for 4 winning streak at events locally, and I've been winning with Swarm Leader Jess Pava plus Rebel TIEs...

Rebel TIEs... If there was ever an indication that the game had jumped the shark, this is it...

7 minutes ago, howieloader said:

Rebel TIEs... If there was ever an indication that the game had jumped the shark, this is it...

No no no no. He obviously mistook the Rebelion's experimental H-Wings with TIE Fighters. Common mistake.

18 minutes ago, howieloader said:

Rebel TIEs... If there was ever an indication that the game had jumped the shark, this is it...

At least they were paying attention to an actual Star Wars storyline for the game.

The great nerf killed Dengaroo. The game can only be in a better place.

I won't be happy until they increase the cost of the scout (or remove its EPT) and restrict attani mindlink to small ship only.

1 hour ago, VanderLegion said:

That's...one of the worst mindlink "fixes" I've seen suggested. It cuts out like half the ships in the faction. Including the ones that don't need to lose access (G1A, kihraxz, starviper, YV666, firespray...)

The thing is, eliminating it from half the ships in the faction incentivizes use of the underused other half of the faction. That half the ships can't use it all of a sudden isn't a de facto problem.

Forgot the Starviper. Guri is sad that she can't buff her team. Xizor doesn't much care, he wasn't taking Mindlink often. No generics can have it. Minimal impact for them.

Kihraxzes are going to be legitimately sad about it, though, if Protectorates were out of the picture, it could be great on them. G-1As too, but system slot makes it hurt less.

Large ships other than the Shadow Caster aren't hurting, though. Firesprays were rare enough as is, Mindlink did nothing to help them see use due to base cost. Bossk is rarely going to use Mindlink, due to dial and preference for VI, Predator, etc. Brobots have other options (and typically can afford more than 1 point on their EPT), Crack Shot or VI come to mind.

I'm not saying it's optimal, or how I personally would do it, but this is what I think FFG will do.

It's the simplest way to keep it available for the Jumpmaster but exclude the Shadow Caster. It has become over-centralizing, so they're going to de-centralize it. And they'll do that by making it an action economy upgrade that's only available to weaker ships. My prediction.

24 minutes ago, Sparklelord said:

The thing is, eliminating it from half the ships in the faction incentivizes use of the underused other half of the faction. That half the ships can't use it all of a sudden isn't a de facto problem.

Forgot the Starviper. Guri is sad that she can't buff her team. Xizor doesn't much care, he wasn't taking Mindlink often. No generics can have it. Minimal impact for them.

Kihraxzes are going to be legitimately sad about it, though, if Protectorates were out of the picture, it could be great on them. G-1As too, but system slot makes it hurt less.

Large ships other than the Shadow Caster aren't hurting, though. Firesprays were rare enough as is, Mindlink did nothing to help them see use due to base cost. Bossk is rarely going to use Mindlink, due to dial and preference for VI, Predator, etc. Brobots have other options (and typically can afford more than 1 point on their EPT), Crack Shot or VI come to mind.

I'm not saying it's optimal, or how I personally would do it, but this is what I think FFG will do.

It's the simplest way to keep it available for the Jumpmaster but exclude the Shadow Caster. It has become over-centralizing, so they're going to de-centralize it. And they'll do that by making it an action economy upgrade that's only available to weaker ships. My prediction.

Except it really doesn't incentivize the use of other ships. Y-wings can't use it except kavil. Hwks already use it (and its good) on palob. Won't see any extra use on other pilots (dace is the only other one that can use it). Scyks are...semi-decent with it, except that they're still sycks. Might see some play with the new pilots. Quadjumpers probably won't use it. Z95s might see it the same place they already do (kaato).

And by removing the ability to use it on any of the best ships in the faction, it won't make the others see more play. People just won't use mindlink at all.

The goal should not be to remove cards from being playable. It should be to balance them so they are still playable and can be good, but aren't the default pick.