Good... good... you're going to buy more X-Wing stuff...

2 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Its not like TLT sees play outside of Stresshogs and Ghosts right now, neither of which are particularly dominating. The Ghost might be a bit on the strong side, but that is easily fixable by making it small ship only.

What if it was large-ship only?

1 hour ago, JayDestroyaC said:

Give it up man, you're a casual player in a competitive thread. Just like me.

I'll just continue to play my HotAC and if FFG nerfs the TLT, all the better I guess, finally some time to take other turrets into consideration for the Y-wing players in my group.

Hahaha you speak the truth, sir.

25 minutes ago, Gibbilo said:

Take off your mcdonalds tin foil plastic wrapper hat.

This is an interesting comment. Here's some reading that may help you get to where TC is coming from: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/invisiblehand.asp

4 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

What if it was large-ship only?

Another interesting idea. Miranda would be a lot less flexible with her builds, the Stresshog would go back to being alright instead of good, using Ion Cannon Turret. The HWK would just die (maaaybe with Synced Turred, but eh). Spam lists would go from not being viable to impossible. TLTs packaging would become a farce with two small base expansions. And the Ghost would be the only ship able to use the upgrade. Which would mean it would become a lot more manageable, as the Ghost is a pretty polarized frame, very strong against some and weak against other certain options.

However right now, for agressive TLT-ing, the Ghost is the strongest option using either Accuracy Corrector or FCS and massive stacks of focus. It would seem weird to remove the weaker applications (not considering Miranda, who goes beyond TLT in what makes her strong) of the upgrade while leaving the Ghost untouched. Of course the quad spam list is a red flag for many players that do not like playing (against) it, but it being (never having been, even) not all that good makes me doubt it should be. Seriously, 4-TLTs doing well is an oddity ever since the initial apocalypse happened and people figured out what ruins their day.

If TLT were Large Ship only it would literally only be usable by the Ghost. That would be a dreadful idea.

9 hours ago, LordBlades said:

For these people the only assets in the epic expansions are the non-epic cards, and it's difficult to NOT see stiff like Palpatine in the Raider as a cash grab move from FFG (pressuring non-epic players into buying epic expansions).

There's always the secondary market.

3 hours ago, JayDestroyaC said:

Give it up man, you're a casual player in a competitive thread. Just like me.

Competitive thread, competitive boards, competitive game design.

Way too much of this game spins around winning little chunks of acrylic like they are Olympic Gold Medals.

And if they are too tightly wound to take a joke, well, I guess that just goes with being competative.

15 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

There's always the secondary market.

Competitive thread, competitive boards, competitive game design.

Way too much of this game spins around winning little chunks of acrylic like they are Olympic Gold Medals.

And if they are too tightly wound to take a joke, well, I guess that just goes with being competative.

My lust for official acrylic tokens fuels my rage boner even more! Death to casual scrubs!

[/sarcasm]

6 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Its not like TLT sees play outside of Stresshogs and Ghosts right now, neither of which are particularly dominating. The Ghost might be a bit on the strong side, but that is easily fixable by making it small ship only.

The nerf should make the call that the docked Shuttle can make an additional Turret attack (so no FCS or AC AND the shuttle has to equip a TLT too).

Just now, xstormtrooperx said:

The nerf should make the call that the docked Shuttle can make an additional Turret attack (so no FCS or AC AND the shuttle has to equip a TLT too).

Oh yeah, that certainly is preferable to just killing the option outright.

37 minutes ago, xstormtrooperx said:

The nerf should make the call that the docked Shuttle can make an additional Turret attack (so no FCS or AC AND the shuttle has to equip a TLT too).

TLT Ghost with the shuttle is pretty much the only way for that ship to exist competitively, and it's not even getting to the top all that often. Why the desire to kill it?

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

There's always the secondary market.

Odds are there still are way more players that want Palpatine than players who want Raiders. For every Palpatine that's on the secondary market somebody has bought a Raider.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

If TLT were Large Ship only it would literally only be usable by the Ghost. That would be a dreadful idea.

Like Stalin said: "No man TLT, no problem."

55 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

Odds are there still are way more players that want Palpatine than players who want Raiders. For every Palpatine that's on the secondary market somebody has bought a Raider.

There are people who buy expansions and split them up to sell individual components. They seem to make a very good business out of it. Palpatine is readily available to purchase separately (the availability was the same pre-nerf); as are standalone Raiders.

8 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

There are people who buy expansions and split them up to sell individual components. They seem to make a very good business out of it. Palpatine is readily available to purchase separately (the availability was the same pre-nerf); as are standalone Raiders.

That's my point exactly. I find it highly doubtful somebody will buy a Raider, sell of Palp (and whatever other cards) and keep playing the Raider. People who buy the Raider and sell off the cards (largely non-epic cards) are still people who buy Raiders for the non-epic cards (which IMO is one of FFGs goals when including cards like Palp in epic expansions)

Worth it just for Intensity and Rockets. TLT's will almost certainly get a nerf eventually. If you just want to buy the ship at some hopes of a Meta-super ship... I would skip it. It's not a cash grab, even without a nerf TLT's x4 on these aggressors are not going to displace the current meta.

Let me make sure I understand this theory correctly.

FFG deliberately designed a "meh" expansion (I guess they assumed that would be the prevailing opinion for this conspiracy to work) but put a TLT in there figuring it would shine all the brighter compared to the rest of the lacklustre release.

They figured people were tired of paying $20 for two copies of TLT and would jump at the chance to now get it for $15 a piece. So they anticipated either poor financial planning for their customers and/or masochistic spending habits.

And then they're planning on nerfing the TLT after they've sold a bunch to self-hating dupes despite the fact that there is no benefit to them for nerfing it. Wouldn't making it better be an even more viable cash grab?

So ffg is run by a bunch of monocled barons twisting their mustaches and clutching their prodigious bellies while guffawing evily at their customer base too stupid or too TLT obsessed to figure out that $10 is less than $15, obliviously buying ships we don't want at prices we shouldn't pay not realizing the other (nerf)shoe is going to drop any minute?

Is that about right?

Yes please, FFG, say it ain't so!

I'm wary to further fuel the conspiracy theory - however with the TIE/ag having the TL action, it does at least make it viable to require TL to either use TLT (a la Synched) or at least to perform the 2nd shot.

2 hours ago, ABXY said:

I'm wary to further fuel the conspiracy theory - however with the TIE/ag having the TL action, it does at least make it viable to require TL to either use TLT (a la Synched) or at least to perform the 2nd shot.

Kills it for attack shuttles (not exactly a common sight with tlt, but it IS a possible carrier and doesn't have the TL action)

6 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Kills it for attack shuttles (not exactly a common sight with tlt, but it IS a possible carrier and doesn't have the TL action)

My preference would be 'perform this attack twice if you have a target lock on the target or it is inside your firing arc' which means the Attack Shuttle can keep using it.

Or, it can take Targetting Computer.

Let's not be paranoid and ridiculous, because it's not some devious plan to screw people out of their money. All the Aggressor is (aside from a TIE Advanced that someone shot the back panels off of) is a dull, uninspired addition to the game that really isn't going to alter much beyond putting more TLT tedium into it, and flying four of them is likely to make you as popular as any other 4x TLT player - not very.

It'll likely be about the same power level as the old Y-Wing versions, with nigh on the exact same counters and the exact same completely tedious gameplay for everyone involved, since you stop playing X-Wing and start playing 'Dice: The Game'.

Do not attribute to malice what can instead be attributed to incompetence.

With or without a TLT nerf, I am buying an aggressor not because I want to run a TLT aggressor, but because I want to run the aggressor itself.

I believe TLT will be the first instance of a turret being available in multiple expansions. Most turrets only appear in one specific ship pack. However, it is also the most prolific and used turret and so it makes sense from a business perspective to have FFG give you an alternative means, besides the K-Wing (which itself is hard to get) in order to get TLT.

Will they nerf it? I can't say for certain but I have a strong opinion that I think they will. However, these things take time...they have a lot of tournament data on how TLT is doing right now, but they can't make a decision without seeing how the TIE Aggressor does with TLT in tournaments. If 6 months pass and quad TLT Aggressors are an issue then we definitely will see a nerf as they've spent time collecting data. That is not them cash grabbing in my opinion, that is them responding to the meta.

4 minutes ago, Ebak said:

With or without a TLT nerf, I am buying an aggressor not because I want to run a TLT aggressor, but because I want to run the aggressor itself.

I believe TLT will be the first instance of a turret being available in multiple expansions. Most turrets only appear in one specific ship pack. However, it is also the most prolific and used turret and so it makes sense from a business perspective to have FFG give you an alternative means, besides the K-Wing (which itself is hard to get) in order to get TLT.

Will they nerf it? I can't say for certain but I have a strong opinion that I think they will. However, these things take time...they have a lot of tournament data on how TLT is doing right now, but they can't make a decision without seeing how the TIE Aggressor does with TLT in tournaments. If 6 months pass and quad TLT Aggressors are an issue then we definitely will see a nerf as they've spent time collecting data. That is not them cash grabbing in my opinion, that is them responding to the meta.

It's worth noting that a putative nerf might not JUST be about its strength, but also about its strength and use relative to other turrets, and about its lack of tactical decision making possibilities.

I could see them instituting a change that made it worse out of arc, to bring it into a bit better line on pricing, and to make it less of an automatic pilot job, not just to make it weaker.

1 hour ago, MalusCalibur said:

Do not attribute to malice what can instead be attributed to incompetence.

Sadly, I agree with this.

It seems FFG's decisions during the recent past have been littered with problems that could easily be defined as incompetence. I know it is a business first and a game second, but neither seem to capitalize on some recent poor decisions. I know anyone can play "armchair quarterback" and the designers are trying to do what's best for the game and their jobs. But there are a few glaring errors that leaves even the least skeptical people scratching their heads: 1) the JK5, what the hell were they thinking?, 2) the JK5 'nerf-arounds' that failed to nerf the real issue which is the core ship design, 3) Why Biggs ability continues to evade nerfs as it continues to be the most game and design warping ability ever conceived holding the Rebels ships in check, 4) MindLink is 1 point, really?, 5) You take out the nerf bat on Palp, not when he's the man, but months after he announces he is working on retirement and will start pulling himself from top-level squads, 6) You design the Punisher without Slam (Imperial design), but give it solely to the un-SW looking turreted K-Wing thingy?, 7) and Sabine is Rebel only? come now, 8) You create a great but overpriced ship in the Defender but want it to sell, so you issue a really great set of Title cards to fix her and it does, only to nerf it later, what?

There. Rant over. Where's my tea?

3 hours ago, Ebak said:

I believe TLT will be the first instance of a turret being available in multiple expansions. Most turrets only appear in one specific ship pack. However, it is also the most prolific and used turret and so it makes sense from a business perspective to have FFG give you an alternative means, besides the K-Wing (which itself is hard to get) in order to get TLT .

Ion turret was first. Came in both the y-wing and the hwk

On 5/22/2017 at 7:25 PM, Darth Meanie said:

Here's me, sitting at my kitchen table playing casual Epic not giving a **** what FFG does to the TLT.

Clearly you've never had an epic opponent show up with twelve TLTs (8 Y-Wings, 4 HWKs) and spam 72 red dice a round at you. TLT spam makes Epic hella dumb hella fast.

Nerfing TLT would be the worst thing FFG ever did. And that's saying something.