Like many have said before me, just fly what you want to fly. If it's legal in the faq, then it's fair to fly.

There's so many "non iconic" ships in this game. That's ok, because there is a lot of rich EU content and it's fun to see that EU somewhere. Especially now that Disney has ejected most of it out the airlock, and how I liked most of it...

14 hours ago, DarthCognis said:

Because when you decide to play with an inherit advantage over your friends its dishonest and pathetic. Here is the truth, pretty much anything thats not a J5000 list is inherently worth more point value anything else. Its not in the movies like a Tie fighter, nobody has any nostalgic memories flying it in a popular videogame like th Scuurg in Jedi Starfighter. The only reason to fly that ugly terrible sentient rights violation is because you want to win more than you want to be fair.

Wow, an actual, foaming-at-the-mouth crazy person. Neat.

I wonder, were I to lay 3 Jumpmasters across the table from you, what would you do?

Disclaimer: Haven't read anything beyond the title to this thread but I have the answer:

Run Talonbane Cobra as well!

14 hours ago, Velvetelvis said:

But...I feel itchy. And I can't quite wash away the smell.

Is your list legal? During games, do you play by the rules? If so, you are above the grasping haters in the pits below.

Seriously, have the guts to play whatever you want.

Well...

1# I agree you should fly what you want to fly for fun. Don't let anyone, including me tell you different.

2# You should still feel dirty about it. Just compare these:

Now look your opponent across the table, yes the one flying x wings, ... Look him in the eye and say "GL/HF Let's have a fair fight."

2 minutes ago, Gibbilo said:

Well...

1# I agree you should fly what you want to fly for fun. Don't let anyone, including me tell you different.

2# You should still feel dirty about it. Just compare these:

Now look your opponent across the table, yes the one flying x wings, ... Look him in the eye and say "GL/HF Let's have a fair fight."

That X-Wing has a whole extra red dice! That's so ******* OP!

8 minutes ago, E Chu Ta said:

Is your list legal? During games, do you play by the rules? If so, you are above the grasping haters in the pits below.

Seriously, have the guts to play whatever you want.

This? Ouch.

Yeah, I play by the rules, and I've rolled up on a mat with FennBoats and won. But it doesn't feel good; that's the joke and the honest reality. Compared to the Star Wars space battle game that this once was, the things are OP. If you don't have a laugh when you mat them, be the one buying the beer (especially if the other bloke is running old-school stuff), and feel somewhat bad running stuff so obviously proven to be OP when your playing with friends and or local gamers, then actually, YOU are a bucket of hate. And that would be me too if I didn't have a heart....a real f***ing bucket of hate.

Playing Scum is about playing dirty. You know you have a good list if when thinking about it, a small taste of vomit rises up your throat. When that happens, you know you're on the right track.

30 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

That X-Wing has a whole extra red dice! That's so ******* OP!

And Higher Pilot Skill!!! Such a one-sided fight...

1 hour ago, Sir Orrin said:

And Higher Pilot Skill!!! Such a one-sided fight...

Beat me to it. The T-65 also has a green 1 bank left. Suck that Jumpmaster!

I have a list of Dengar and Guri. One's undercosted, the other's over-. Maybe it works out.

Just now, TheHumanHydra said:

I have a list of Dengar and Guri. One's undercosted, the other's over-. Maybe it works out.

Haha that's great! That should be the next errata: For every Jumpmaster in a list, an over-costed ship must be used. Then they make a list of official overcosted ships.

8 minutes ago, TheHumanHydra said:

I have a list of Dengar and Guri. One's undercosted, the other's over-. Maybe it works out.

Yay! What's your list?
I won a tournament last summer with this:

Dengar
Punishing One
Push The Limit
Unhinged Astromech
K4 Security Droid
Engine Upgrade
Inertial Dampeners

Guri
Virago
Veteran Instincts
Fire Control System
Autothrusters
Advanced Proton Torpedoes

53 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

Yay! What's your list?
I won a tournament last summer with this:

Dengar
Punishing One
Push The Limit
Unhinged Astromech
K4 Security Droid
Engine Upgrade
Inertial Dampeners

Guri
Virago
Veteran Instincts
Fire Control System
Autothrusters
Advanced Proton Torpedoes

To be honest, I'm still trying out different upgrade combinations to see what works best (and sometimes it's Tel Trevura, because Dengar crew). Here's a sample:

Dengar (33)
Expertise (4)
Hotshot Co-pilot (4)
R5-P8 (3)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Punishing One (12)

Guri (30)
Lone Wolf (2)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I like your list, and I'm encouraged to hear of its success! Did you find that you got much mileage out of VI?

8 minutes ago, TheHumanHydra said:

To be honest, I'm still trying out different upgrade combinations to see what works best (and sometimes it's Tel Trevura, because Dengar crew). Here's a sample:

Dengar (33)
Expertise (4)
Hotshot Co-pilot (4)
R5-P8 (3)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Punishing One (12)

Guri (30)
Lone Wolf (2)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I like your list, and I'm encouraged to hear of its success! Did you find that you got much mileage out of VI?

I did. There were a lot of PS5-7s at that tournament and moving after them was a great help.

Of course Fearlessness hadn't been released back then and there weren't really 1 point options (other than Crack Shot), or I might have gone a different route. Kanan was doing the rounds a lot locally then too which probably influenced the choice.

3 hours ago, Gibbilo said:

Well...

1# I agree you should fly what you want to fly for fun. Don't let anyone, including me tell you different.

2# You should still feel dirty about it. Just compare these:

Now look your opponent across the table, yes the one flying x wings, ... Look him in the eye and say "GL/HF Let's have a fair fight."

Given the current state of any non-Biggs X-wing, you can put pretty much anything in there instead of the Jumpmaster and comparison still stands.

1 hour ago, LordBlades said:

Given the current state of any non-Biggs X-wing, you can put pretty much anything in there instead of the Jumpmaster and comparison still stands.

But the message is especially poignant not for a game balance standpoint, but from a principal standpoint. The X wing is generally a fun balanced ship, playing OP stuff for the sake of it is reprehensible because it undermines any idea of sportsmanship within a competitive zone. Its like if doping was legal in football, instantly all professional athletes have to become drug addicts to even compete.

4 minutes ago, DarthCognis said:

But the message is especially poignant not for a game balance standpoint, but from a principal standpoint. The X wing is generally a fun balanced ship, playing OP stuff for the sake of it is reprehensible because it undermines any idea of sportsmanship within a competitive zone. Its like if doping was legal in football, instantly all professional athletes have to become drug addicts to even compete.

The way I see it the X wing is rather under powered currently (from what I gathered even from the times of the Core set it was mathematically inferior to the TIE Fighter) and, at least as far as I'm concerned, one of the less fun ships in the game (it's just basic, no fancy moves, no fancy actions, just straight up dice trade; then of course, what 'fun' is varies from person to person) but whatever.

When somebody does bring something that's strong, and somebody else brings something that's weak, why do you think the blame lies with the one that brought the strong thing, especially in the competitive zone?

Just now, LordBlades said:

The way I see it the X wing is rather under powered currently and, at least as far as I'm concerned, one of the less fun ships in the game (it's just basic, no fancy moves, no fancy actions, just straight up dice trade; then of course, what 'fun' is varies from person to person) but whatever.

When somebody does bring something that's strong, and somebody else brings something that's weak, why do you think the blame lies with the one that brought the strong thing, especially in the competitive zone?

I think Im getting the Darwinian point your trying to make. Just answer me this, do you gain satisfaction over beating someone in a situation that you have garnered an inherit advantage in? If so, then you really are "Scum and Villainy"

I remember this high school freshman that walked into my LGS, showed some interest. Normally I play the core set with newbs to show them the ropes, get them hooked, but I was busy and passed off his first game to a friend who wanted to fly jumpmasters that day. The kid never came back, because that initial experience taught him that it was rigged and arbitrary and stupid. X wings and Tie fighters make people want to play, and keep playing, and end up with hundreds of dollars worth of plastic and cardboard to increase the joy they get from them.

Jumpmasters are poison that kill anyone enthusiasm for the game, and lessens the experience of the people already in the game.

8 minutes ago, DarthCognis said:

I think Im getting the Darwinian point your trying to make. Just answer me this, do you gain satisfaction over beating someone in a situation that you have garnered an inherit advantage in? If so, then you really are "Scum and Villainy"

I remember this high school freshman that walked into my LGS, showed some interest. Normally I play the core set with newbs to show them the ropes, get them hooked, but I was busy and passed off his first game to a friend who wanted to fly jumpmasters that day. The kid never came back, because that initial experience taught him that it was rigged and arbitrary and stupid. X wings and Tie fighters make people want to play, and keep playing, and end up with hundreds of dollars worth of plastic and cardboard to increase the joy they get from them.

Jumpmasters are poison that kill anyone enthusiasm for the game, and lessens the experience of the people already in the game.

Regarding your question, the answer is a definite 'it depends'.

In friendly games, no, I'd rather have a fun game for both sides, not a steamroll for either side. In tournaments however I'm there to win, so I bring the best list and play that I can. If my opponent is not there to do the same, then that's his problem.

If you had any kind of mild interest in a sport you've never played before and your first game was against a pro that didn't hold back, would you return? After let's say 10 minutes of 1-on-1 basketball where you don't touch the ball?

It's the same thing. Your friend used a competitive list to stomp a new player. I'm willing to bet the same would have happened with any other competitive list.

4 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

This? Ouch.

Yeah, I play by the rules, and I've rolled up on a mat with FennBoats and won. But it doesn't feel good; that's the joke and the honest reality. Compared to the Star Wars space battle game that this once was, the things are OP. If you don't have a laugh when you mat them, be the one buying the beer (especially if the other bloke is running old-school stuff), and feel somewhat bad running stuff so obviously proven to be OP when your playing with friends and or local gamers, then actually, YOU are a bucket of hate. And that would be me too if I didn't have a heart....a real f***ing bucket of hate.

If I sit down across the table from you at a tournament, I will do my level best to table you with the best available tools for the job with a smile on my face and a song in my heart. I expect nothing less from my opponent. Tournament play interests me because it forces one to play their best, against others bringing their best.

Game night at the shop is an entirely different beast. I'm entirely comfortable with playing to my opponent's preferences, because it maintains the community and is just considerate. That said, if I need to practice a squad that I'm trying to bring up to a tournament, I'll pass on the casual games in favor of someone looking for a more hardbody fight. Just establish what both players looking for in the pregame conversation. Sometimes taking a break to flop an ultracasual list on the table really does help refocus on how to fly the tournament murder squad. Communicating with one's opponent is really not all that difficult to pull off, and I do it with grace and panache.

There’s a distinct difference in being a decent sort of gamer who will agree to not play something their opponent would rather not fight against in casual play with locals at the shop and being the sort of gamer who is shamed away from paying a list that they enjoy by a bunch of vociferous sourpusses.

3 hours ago, TheHumanHydra said:

I have a list of Dengar and Guri. One's undercosted, the other's over-. Maybe it works out.

I'm....strangely ok with this..

I'll allow it.

Play Dengaroo for the love of Star Wars.

Where have all the Dengaroo players gone anyway?

Speaking of catering to what the opponent does or doesnt want to play gainst.....not too long ago( less than a year) I had a fella on vassal refuse to play my list that was echo and whisper with Stygian, and a palp mobile.

He said he just wasn`t going to deal with 2 phantoms. I confusedly said...OK. and changed my list.

the whole time I was thinking....dude would have wrecked house against two poorly equipped phantoms. He must have had some sort of bad experience in his past pre nerf or something. I just wanted to try it out and see what stygian was like.

but we met in the middle and he let me try my other list I wanted to experiment with since this imperial veterans thing had just come out. ...crackshot X7glaives.

I think the lesson here is...play against whatever people bring. you just may learn something along the way, and the alternative could be worse.

8 hours ago, TheHumanHydra said:

I have a list of Dengar and Guri. One's undercosted, the other's over-. Maybe it works out.

Seriously. The efficiency of the Jumpmaster enables a lot of jank to do quite well. Take one and fill the rest with G1As, HWKs, Starvipers, Khiraxz, Scyks and Z-95s.