2 minutes ago, Kelvan said:Boy that's tough... my internal rule of thumb is to try to get at least 4 off to win. That's proven true, but that's completely observational and not backed by data.
Maybe 1/3 of the time is way too high then. Like with most highly conditional triggers, you really need some analytical playtesting data to measure how often it happens to know if it's good. If you get some more table time with it then definitely try to keep track, I would be interested.
1 minute ago, MajorJuggler said:
Maybe 1/3 of the time is way too high then. Like with most highly conditional triggers, you really need some analytical playtesting data to measure how often it happens to know if it's good. If you get some more table time with it then definitely try to keep track, I would be interested.
just keep track of snaps per game?
Edited by KelvanJust now, Kelvan said:just keep track of snaps per game?
Two things to keep track of:
1) Snaps per game.
2) The number of times where a snap A-wing attacks in the combat phase but doesn't get to use snapshot.
Don't have to keep track separately for each ship, the numbers can get all lumped together since they're all the same chassis and PS.
12 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:Two things to keep track of:
1) Snaps per game.
2) The number of times where a snap A-wing attacks in the combat phase but doesn't get to use snapshot.
Don't have to keep track separately for each ship, the numbers can get all lumped together since they're all the same chassis and PS.
Is it probative to keep track of times snap was used but there was NO attack in combat? (FYI to all, this is one of the best parts of Snap shot. A-wings die fast but if you did 1-2 damage with snap before they died, its fine.)
9 minutes ago, Kelvan said:Is it probative to keep track of times snap was used but there was NO attack in combat? (FYI to all, this is one of the best parts of Snap shot. A-wings die fast but if you did 1-2 damage with snap before they died, its fine.)
Sure, that's also relevant. It makes the calculation more complicated, but in the correct way.
On 5/22/2017 at 1:09 PM, MajorJuggler said:Sure, that's also relevant. It makes the calculation more complicated, but in the correct way.
What's the minimum sample size you need?
On 5/22/2017 at 10:21 AM, MajorJuggler said:Two things to keep track of:
1) Snaps per game.
2) The number of times where a snap A-wing attacks in the combat phase but doesn't get to use snapshot.
Don't have to keep track separately for each ship, the numbers can get all lumped together since they're all the same chassis and PS.
And what about Snap-Tactician Rhymer? How do you measure stress added into the game since stress and effects of stress seem to change ever other wave. (not by change as effects but in some things like spending stress or switching order so you can go around stress effects ect.)
On 5/22/2017 at 3:10 PM, clanofwolves said:Great show once againg; reality in spades....let everyone off the chain like that every show.
BTW, I took this to two small tourneys (pre-snap), and, much like Porkins; started OK, but it couldn't hold the final three games in both:
E-Wing: · Corran Horn (35), Push The Limit (3), R2-D2 (4), Engine Upgrade (4)
A-Wing: Green Squadron Pilot (19), Crack Shot (1), Chardaan Refit (-2), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Adaptability (Increase) (0)
A-Wing: Green Squadron Pilot (19), Crack Shot (1), Chardaan Refit (-2), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Adaptability (Increase) (0)
A-Wing: Green Squadron Pilot (19), Crack Shot (1), Chardaan Refit (-2), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Adaptability (Increase) (0)
TOTAL 100
Do I dare try:
T-70 X-Wing: "Snap" Wexley (34), BB-8 (2), Push the Limit (3), Primed Thrusters (1), Intergrated Astomech (0)
A-Wing: Green Squadron Pilot (19), Crack Shot (1), Chardaan Refit (-2), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Snap Shot (2)
A-Wing: Green Squadron Pilot (19), Crack Shot (1), Chardaan Refit (-2), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Snap Shot (2)
A-Wing: Green Squadron Pilot (19), Crack Shot (1), Chardaan Refit (-2), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Snap Shot (2)
TOTAL 99
Try switching PTL on "Snap" for Daredevil...
As for my A-Wing offering, if I can find a local tournament big enough...
Green Sqn A-Wing, Title, Refit, Snap Shot, Juke, Autothrusters. (23)
Green Sqn A-Wing, Title, Refit, Snap Shot, Juke, Autothrusters. (23)
Jess Pava, Primed Thrusters, Autothrusters, R2-D6, Swarm Leader (who knew..) (32)
Asokha Tano, Title, Captured Tie, VI and Rey crew (22).
35 minutes ago, boomaster said:Try switching PTL on "Snap" for Daredevil...
As for my A-Wing offering, if I can find a local tournament big enough...
Green Sqn A-Wing, Title, Refit, Snap Shot, Juke, Autothrusters. (23)
Green Sqn A-Wing, Title, Refit, Snap Shot, Juke, Autothrusters. (23)
Jess Pava, Primed Thrusters, Autothrusters, R2-D6, Swarm Leader (who knew..) (32)
Asokha Tano, Title, Captured Tie, VI and Rey crew (22).
OK, I'll try that.
But captured TIE? It's like rubbing a cat the wrong way, ugg.
20 hours ago, Marinealver said:And what about Snap-Tactician Rhymer? How do you measure stress added into the game since stress and effects of stress seem to change ever other wave. (not by change as effects but in some things like spending stress or switching order so you can go around stress effects ect.)
I want Snap Rhymer to be good so badly. but you have to make up for SOOOO many points for Rhymer to be good.
On 5/22/2017 at 8:49 AM, Kelvan said:Sable is already pushing for this.
THiS IS ThE bEST ME!!!!!!111oneone!!1
Green Squadron Pilot — A-Wing 19
Snap Shot 2
Chardaan Refit -2
Crack Shot 1
A-Wing Test Pilot 0
Ship Total: 20
Green Squadron Pilot — A-Wing 19
Snap Shot 2
Chardaan Refit -2
Crack Shot 1
A-Wing Test Pilot 0
Ship Total: 20
Green Squadron Pilot — A-Wing 19
Snap Shot 2
Chardaan Refit -2
Crack Shot 1
A-Wing Test Pilot 0
Ship Total: 20
Horton Salm — Y-Wing 25
Twin Laser Turret 6
Bomb Loadout 0
R2-D6 1
Expertise 4
Ion Bombs 2
Vectored Thrusters 2
Ship Total: 40
i like that horton increases in cost with each iteration. 40 point y wing what could go wrong?
21 hours ago, boomaster said:Try switching PTL on "Snap" for Daredevil...
As for my A-Wing offering, if I can find a local tournament big enough...
Green Sqn A-Wing, Title, Refit, Snap Shot, Juke, Autothrusters. (23)
Green Sqn A-Wing, Title, Refit, Snap Shot, Juke, Autothrusters. (23)
Jess Pava, Primed Thrusters, Autothrusters, R2-D6, Swarm Leader (who knew..) (32)
Asokha Tano, Title, Captured Tie, VI and Rey crew (22).
hmm... you know I'd throw Ops Specialist in here. I've run a few EMP rebel ties around with Snap and you can get some very devastating snap rounds if you play your cards right.
I have to agree on Operations Specialist. Running Braylen with OpSpec and three Snap/Juke A-wings, I played a 14-person tourney a couple of weeks ago, and when I faced Dash Miranda on the final table, the player was like, "How are you 3-0 with A-wings?!" (I lost, but with slightly better dice, I would have had a real chance.)
I'm running Jess with Snap-Juke A-wings at a small tourney tomorrow, and will see if the theoretical dice-boost makes up for losing all those Focuses.
Speaking of which, figuring out attack order, in the presence of OpSpec, so as to best leverage those tokens, actually takes some processing power ...
6 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:I have to agree on Operations Specialist. Running Braylen with OpSpec and three Snap/Juke A-wings, I played a 14-person tourney a couple of weeks ago, and when I faced Dash Miranda on the final table, the player was like, "How are you 3-0 with A-wings?!" (I lost, but with slightly better dice, I would have had a real chance.)
I'm running Jess with Snap-Juke A-wings at a small tourney tomorrow, and will see if the theoretical dice-boost makes up for losing all those Focuses.
Speaking of which, figuring out attack order, in the presence of OpSpec, so as to best leverage those tokens, actually takes some processing power ...
Dash has posed a problem to me.
Regarding ops specialist decisions:
Its wild "do I actually want to hit this shot, because If I miss I can give that one a focus"
Heads up since you like Braylen:
Green Squadron Pilot — A-Wing19Snap Shot2Chardaan Refit-2Crack Shot1A-Wing Test Pilot0Ship Total: 20
Green Squadron Pilot — A-Wing19Snap Shot2Chardaan Refit-2Crack Shot1A-Wing Test Pilot0Ship Total: 20
Braylen Stramm — ARC-17025Operations Specialist3R3-A22Alliance Overhaul0Ship Total: 30
Jess Pava — T-70 X-Wing25R2-D61Primed Thrusters1Swarm Leader3Integrated Astromech0Ship Total: 30
10 minutes ago, Kelvan said:[Jess, Braylen, A-wings.]
Pretty sweet. I meant to ask you ... don't you miss Autothrusters? I dunno if I'm just terrible at range control, or what, but without Autothrusters I always take a little damage to an A-wing at Range 3, and then risk getting PS-killed on the next round.
1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:Pretty sweet. I meant to ask you ... don't you miss Autothrusters? I dunno if I'm just terrible at range control, or what, but without Autothrusters I always take a little damage to an A-wing at Range 3, and then risk getting PS-killed on the next round.
That's what I've been worried about with running A-Wings without Autothrusters. Especially dealing with Miranda, Dash, Rey, JM5Ks, and RAC. I like the list I've tried recently being 3 GSP A-Wings w/ Juke, Snap Shot, Refit, AWTP, Autothrusters and Braylen w/ R3-A2, Ops Specialist, and Alliance Overhaul totaled at 99 pts. I really like the stress control with Snap Shot and Braylen just works with that. I might try the Norra version eventually, but I'm gonna spend more time with the Braylen 3 Greens one.
1 hour ago, Jeff Wilder said:Pretty sweet. I meant to ask you ... don't you miss Autothrusters? I dunno if I'm just terrible at range control, or what, but without Autothrusters I always take a little damage to an A-wing at Range 3, and then risk getting PS-killed on the next round.
Yeah I do. its a give and take though right? that's 6 points (3 if you're dropping from juke to crack shot) that can be a lot of interesting things to help your Awings. Things like ops specialist, Nora's sweet ability over braylen, R3-A2... I'm not sure I have the right answer or if there even is one.
Few other thoughts. 1. not having AT means you have to be even more aggressive about getting in close and getting snaps off, that's not the worst thing.
2. Being PS killed is a fact of life for low PS, especially since A wings are frail if they're not rolling evades well. To me if i get 1 snap off before the PS kill, one that does damage hopefully, I can live with it.
Edited by Kelvan
48 minutes ago, RStan said:That's what I've been worried about with running A-Wings without Autothrusters. Especially dealing with Miranda, Dash, Rey, JM5Ks, and RAC. I like the list I've tried recently being 3 GSP A-Wings w/ Juke, Snap Shot, Refit, AWTP, Autothrusters and Braylen w/ R3-A2, Ops Specialist, and Alliance Overhaul totaled at 99 pts. I really like the stress control with Snap Shot and Braylen just works with that. I might try the Norra version eventually, but I'm gonna spend more time with the Braylen 3 Greens one.
I don't disagree with this. Autothrusters is fully justifiable, especially the more you know your meta. But I like to fly A wings very aggressively and dare the enemy to shoot them. I want them to die first before my support ship (nora,jess, braylen, ahsoka). It makes it perhaps a little harder for me to load points onto ships I'm planning on offering up for my enemy to kill.
Counterpoint: Alex "Antigrapist" Raubach time and time again would say autothrusters are the best upgrade in the game. Not a stretch to say he's been a better player than me over the last year and a half.
Ha, just thought of this. I fly my Awings like they're already dead and they're looking to dish out as much back before they die. Damage to them doesn't bother me much.
5 minutes ago, Kelvan said:I don't disagree with this. Autothrusters is fully justifiable, especially the more you know your meta. But I like to fly A wings very aggressively and dare the enemy to shoot them. I want them to die first before my support ship (nora,jess, braylen, ahsoka). It makes it perhaps a little harder for me to load points onto ships I'm planning on offering up for my enemy to kill.
Counterpoint: Alex "Antigrapist" Raubach time and time again would say autothrusters are the best upgrade in the game. Not a stretch to say he's been a better player than me over the last year and a half.
1 minute ago, Kelvan said:Ha, just thought of this. I fly my Awings like they're already dead and they're looking to dish out as much back before they die. Damage to them doesn't bother me much.
That's where I think the Norra build you had makes more sense for you. They don't have Autothrusters and you've put more points into the support ship that allows for a higher PS and damage output. Looks to primarily be a play style choice, but I'll give the Norra one a shot at some point because I do like the use of Wired for her ability.
16 minutes ago, RStan said:
That's where I think the Norra build you had makes more sense for you. They don't have Autothrusters and you've put more points into the support ship that allows for a higher PS and damage output. Looks to primarily be a play style choice, but I'll give the Norra one a shot at some point because I do like the use of Wired for her ability.
I was really surprised how good a dial the Arc has with its greens considering its butt cannon. the 2 bank to clear a stress, TL and have a butt cannon shot on a target is absolutely brutal. That shot is getting a guaranteed crit every time due to Norra and the overhaul title.
2 hours ago, Kelvan said:Ha, just thought of this. I fly my Awings like they're already dead and they're looking to dish out as much back before they die. Damage to them doesn't bother me much.
I think because of this Autothrusters are expendable. Are all your A-wings going to be out of arc or at Range 3? If the answer is no, there's an A-wing that won't get Autothrusters activated, and that A wing gets shot. It's a little more complicated than this, obviously, but it does highlight the difficulty.
10 minutes ago, Biophysical said:I think because of this Autothrusters are expendable. Are all your A-wings going to be out of arc or at Range 3? If the answer is no, there's an A-wing that won't get Autothrusters activated, and that A wing gets shot. It's a little more complicated than this, obviously, but it does highlight the difficulty.
I think it's a lot more complicated, actually.
An A-wing that takes damage at Range 3 is more likely to be destroyed at Range 1. (Ideally, you want to not be at any range but Range 1, obviously, and I concede that if a Snap Shot player can do this routinely, he should forgo Autothrusters and use the points elsewhere. But I can't.) An A-wing with Autothrusters that is damaged can run out to Range 3 and possibly avoid destruction. More generally, it's easier to give a damaged A-wing the protection of Autothrusters if all your A-wings have Autothrusters. (You can shoot out-of-arc at this A-wing with 2 hull, or you can shoot in-arc and Range 1 at this A-wing with 4 HP and an evade token ... your choice.) And so on.
I think what it boils down to is that I'm not quite ready to consider my A-wings disposable. That may very well be a leak in my game, but if it is, right now I'm plugging it with Autothrusters.
19 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:I think it's a lot more complicated, actually.
An A-wing that takes damage at Range 3 is more likely to be destroyed at Range 1. (Ideally, you want to not be at any range but Range 1, obviously, and I concede that if a Snap Shot player can do this routinely, he should forgo Autothrusters and use the points elsewhere. But I can't.) An A-wing with Autothrusters that is damaged can run out to Range 3 and possibly avoid destruction. More generally, it's easier to give a damaged A-wing the protection of Autothrusters if all your A-wings have Autothrusters. (You can shoot out-of-arc at this A-wing with 2 hull, or you can shoot in-arc and Range 1 at this A-wing with 4 HP and an evade token ... your choice.) And so on.
I think what it boils down to is that I'm not quite ready to consider my A-wings disposable. That may very well be a leak in my game, but if it is, right now I'm plugging it with Autothrusters.
Ha! Maybe its due to so many A wing games I've played where they just died for no good reason. I've become convinced they were never alive to begin with.
I will say that an A that gets to shoot twice before dying (Range 3 w/ Juke and then a movement phase snap) is a good A wing as long as he took the heat for the rest of the Squad.
Edited by Kelvan@Rytackle we talked about this. Wanna join A wing club?