1 minute ago, Snipafist said:

Ion Cannon Batteries is the best blue-crit upgrade we currently have because it's okay with doing some very basic work on a crit. Zapping a token can be circumstantially useful and the shield damage is effectively a kind-of-but-not-quite APTs effect. The other blue crit upgrades are way more janky and usually require a combo engine.

That's why I've been advocating it.

Its good and oft forgotten.it even exists.... I mean, everyone loves Norra... ICB is like Norra for Ships!

2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I've done it.

Its just... Y'know... If we actually had a Gladiator or Raider instead of an Mc30, It'd be an easier time... Fewer Points, fewer upgrades, fewer reliance on the Titles for Defence, etc.

Hammerheads could make a difference in that style - being a potentially super-cheap Ordnance boat.

I think I found the list for you!

Drasnighta's Janky Sato

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 398/400

Commander: Commander Sato

Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[ flagship ] Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Commander Sato ( 32 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 93 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

5 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

That's a low bid?
Lately I've been bidding 2.

High bid then? lol I'm not sure which phrasing works... my fleet point total is normally a minimum of 15 points under 400.

5 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

I think I found the list for you!

Drasnighta's Janky Sato

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 398/400

Commander: Commander Sato

Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[ flagship ] Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Commander Sato ( 32 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 93 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Needs at LEAST one squadron for Sato to actually trigger well. I'd say just take Tycho, you'll be fine! (you will not be fine)

Just now, geek19 said:

Needs at LEAST one squadron for Sato to actually trigger well. I'd say just take Tycho, you'll be fine! (you will not be fine)

Knew I should have put the lifeboat flotilla with Tycho instead of the last one

11 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

High bid then? lol I'm not sure which phrasing works... my fleet point total is normally a minimum of 15 points under 400.

The bid is the number of points left unspent, right? 70 unspent points would be a lot (That's almost a free Glad you left behind!)

Little late to the party, but MS-1s? I have a friend who continually takes that upgrade instead of Ion Cannon Batteries / SW-7s on a Vader commanded VSDII because, due to timing shenanigans, you can exhaust Major Derlin before he can be used to reduce damage. On a related note, I really enjoy taking Major Derlin on MC80Ls.

He originally had it to shut down Ramstrosities, but no one here flies those.

35 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

I own 2 Peltas now... That might be one... in a little bit... But for now, 2.

I did try it with 2AFs and 2 MC30s...

That was fun times while it lasted.

5 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

I own 2 Peltas now... That might be one... in a little bit... But for now, 2.

I did try it with 2AFs and 2 MC30s...

That was fun times while it lasted.

I keep trying to build double Pelta and i keep getting "eh" builds. I have a dumb idea with Leia and Redemption and Shields to Max on an Assault Pelta, but then you're in that problem of "well, you repair everything. How do you kill anything?"

11 minutes ago, geek19 said:

I keep trying to build double Pelta and i keep getting "eh" builds. I have a dumb idea with Leia and Redemption and Shields to Max on an Assault Pelta, but then you're in that problem of "well, you repair everything. How do you kill anything?"

Command Pelta, AFFM, and Stupid amounts of Norra and the Y-Babes.

6 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

People though that Sato was going to make black crits at long range a thing but I have yet to see much Sato, and when I have, I am yet to be hit by a APT crit at red range.

I think blue crits with DC's will be much the same. There are some that might see some use simply because of the reduced cost and easier use of the DC's, but it's a one turn trick that I don't think is going to change the way ships are played. The damage increase will be the motivation to use them, not so much the crit effect shenanigans.

Ironically, I think Ion Cannon Batteries maybe the best multi-purpose synergy upgrade with them as they can strip a nav token at long range before activation of say Demolisher or any ship that wants to bug in and bug out it's going to be useful. If no token, it's an extra damage which is compatible with the primary purpose of taking the upgrade.

Yes but there are two issues with Sato.

First, Sato costs 30 points, not 3.

Second, Sato can't guarantee a critical result 100% of the time.

4 hours ago, geek19 said:

I keep trying to build double Pelta and i keep getting "eh" builds. I have a dumb idea with Leia and Redemption and Shields to Max on an Assault Pelta, but then you're in that problem of "well, you repair everything. How do you kill anything?"

The Assault version is very cheap and has a good front arc, maybe use them in the same way as a couple of blocking raiders, without the sudden speed four option but with a whole lot more beef on the bone. So as flankers and support for a large base ship........shields to max, fleet ambush, maybe a bit of shield passing both supporting some form of juicy MC80 build, acting like interdoc and flanking raiders all in one hull, that would still give you around 150ish points for other toys ( fighters,admiral, transports).

6 hours ago, geek19 said:

im dodging the Sato article as much as I can until the hammerhead shows, as i think its going to help him immensely.

Be brave, there are plenty of build options around Sato without having to wait for the next wave. Beyond the standard MC30 " I must APT at long range" option, Assault frigates are lovely, with both a OE or GT option. He buffs MC80s with fully sculpted whatever dice you want rainbow arcs ( particularly true of defiance), even CR90 As can have fun from the front with 2 blacks and a red out at long range ( that's some consistent damage with the red being TLRCed). Not forgetting the Neb b love....... In all he potentislly buffs every type of rebel ship consistently as long as they are shooting and you don't make a mess of your fighter tactics.

Remember it's not all about long range with Sato, it's also about how he transforms weaker long range focused arcs into close range slogger type arcs, suddenly the wimpy red double arcs of assault frigates and Neb Bs are throwing 5 black dice, Defiance can now put out Four black dice and a blue from its front, this makes a difference on how easy it is to approach these ships with blockers ect.

27 minutes ago, Jondavies72 said:

The Assault version is very cheap and has a good front arc, maybe use them in the same way as a couple of blocking raiders, without the sudden speed four option but with a whole lot more beef on the bone. So as flankers and support for a large base ship........shields to max, fleet ambush, maybe a bit of shield passing both supporting some form of juicy MC80 build, acting like interdoc and flanking raiders all in one hull, that would still give you around 150ish points for other toys ( fighters,admiral, transports).

I think with External Racks you can get a lot more potential use from Assault Peltas as blockers. Obviously they'd still like a Fleet Command upgrade, but they otherwise don't need to be too expensive. Engine Techs don't hurt if you want to be more proactive with them but they're not strictly necessary. The main issue is the VSD problem of trying to go after enemies that don't want to engage you (conga lines, skirmisher fleets, and to a lesser extent bomber fleets).

4 minutes ago, Jondavies72 said:

Be brave, there are plenty of build options around Sato without having to wait for the next wave. Beyond the standard MC30 " I must APT at long range" option, Assault frigates are lovely, with both a OE or GT option. He buffs MC80s with fully sculpted whatever dice you want rainbow arcs ( particularly true of defiance), even CR90 As can have fun from the front with 2 blacks and a red out at long range ( that's some consistent damage with the red being TLRCed). Not forgetting the Neb b love....... In all he potentislly buffs every type of rebel ship consistently as long as they are shooting and you don't make a mess of your fighter tactics.

The main issue I've seen with Sato (and I think @geek19 would back me up on this one) is you can have some fun with long-range MC30 black crit ordnance and double-arcing Assault Frigates with Ordnance Experts (which are fairly effective if/when you can pull it off) but getting it to all come together to justify Sato's cost and the trickiness of getting him to trigger just doesn't seem to have a sufficient payoff (...yet, anyways). Simply making CR90 dice a bit more likely to inflict damage isn't particularly great, those new dice have got to do something that the ship really likes (like using a certain critical upgrade more consistently and/or getting access to an Ordnance Experts style reroll your regular dice wouldn't). At the moment there aren't a lot of Rebel ships that can really take advantage of that. With the Torpedo Hammerheads having a weapon team slot for Ordnance Experts and a one-of-each-die front arc, Sato might be able to find a cheap ship that can help him do his thing more consistently (by turning it into 3 rerollable black dice, presumably for cheap) for a whole fleet.

6 hours ago, geek19 said:

Needs at LEAST one squadron for Sato to actually trigger well. I'd say just take Tycho, you'll be fine! (you will not be fine)

Sato needs a bucket of awings or friends, otherwise you telegraph which ship you are going to attack.a VCX or two is also nice with Sato as they have great independence from staying within activation range. HWKs make great Sato activators as well, it's also worth thinking about a slow tanky fighter or two so you have something to activate Sato when it gets down to the close in brawl.

1 hour ago, Snipafist said:

I think with External Racks you can get a lot more potential use from Assault Peltas as blockers. Obviously they'd still like a Fleet Command upgrade, but they otherwise don't need to be too expensive. Engine Techs don't hurt if you want to be more proactive with them but they're not strictly necessary. The main issue is the VSD problem of trying to go after enemies that don't want to engage you (conga lines, skirmisher fleets, and to a lesser extent bomber fleets).

The main issue I've seen with Sato (and I think @geek19 would back me up on this one) is you can have some fun with long-range MC30 black crit ordnance and double-arcing Assault Frigates with Ordnance Experts (which are fairly effective if/when you can pull it off) but getting it to all come together to justify Sato's cost and the trickiness of getting him to trigger just doesn't seem to have a sufficient payoff (...yet, anyways). Simply making CR90 dice a bit more likely to inflict damage isn't particularly great, those new dice have got to do something that the ship really likes (like using a certain critical upgrade more consistently and/or getting access to an Ordnance Experts style reroll your regular dice wouldn't). At the moment there aren't a lot of Rebel ships that can really take advantage of that. With the Torpedo Hammerheads having a weapon team slot for Ordnance Experts and a one-of-each-die front arc, Sato might be able to find a cheap ship that can help him do his thing more consistently (by turning it into 3 rerollable black dice, presumably for cheap) for a whole fleet.

Yeah basically. I've tried several ships with him and if you can't reroll the dice, I find it's hardly worth switching. Yeah I can put blues on instead of blacks, but you paid a LOT (32 points, currently the second most expensive Rebel admiral) to be able to change your dice up. You CAN throw 2/4 blacks at long range with a CR90A.... But what happens when you roll 1-2 blank? Kinda feels like a waste of a turn to me. And let's not even talk about the fact that Arquitens and Raiders exist, with their Evade tokens. THAT'S my issue with Sato. Getting consistent damage to stick, and every part of that sentence is like pulling teeth. Oh, my Salvation is rolling 3 blacks with a concentrate fire? Glad all 3 of them rolled blank.

1 hour ago, Jondavies72 said:

Sato needs a bucket of awings or friends, otherwise you telegraph which ship you are going to attack.a VCX or two is also nice with Sato as they have great independence from staying within activation range. HWKs make great Sato activators as well, it's also worth thinking about a slow tanky fighter or two so you have something to activate Sato when it gets down to the close in brawl.

Hence the joke about only needing Tycho in the list, haha. I've been debating throwing 134 points of fighters at my problems until they just blow up. The problem with that is that Rieekan does a lot of that plan but better, sadly. So, I keep thinking.

7 hours ago, geek19 said:

Yeah basically. I've tried several ships with him and if you can't reroll the dice, I find it's hardly worth switching. Yeah I can put blues on instead of blacks, but you paid a LOT (32 points, currently the second most expensive Rebel admiral) to be able to change your dice up. You CAN throw 2/4 blacks at long range with a CR90A.... But what happens when you roll 1-2 blank? Kinda feels like a waste of a turn to me. And let's not even talk about the fact that Arquitens and Raiders exist, with their Evade tokens. THAT'S my issue with Sato. Getting consistent damage to stick, and every part of that sentence is like pulling teeth. Oh, my Salvation is rolling 3 blacks with a concentrate fire? Glad all 3 of them rolled blank.

Hence the joke about only needing Tycho in the list, haha. I've been debating throwing 134 points of fighters at my problems until they just blow up. The problem with that is that Rieekan does a lot of that plan but better, sadly. So, I keep thinking.

Yep satos big weakness and hardest facet is the fighter game, you really need to invest in a potient fighter group, which he then forces you to play in a sub optimal way, by splitting it into different cohorts.

The round 2-3 long range cohort will be Awings ( up to four) I think the Aces are a waste of money in this case as you are using these as expendable target drones that will die. Best activated with a fighter token from each of your ships ( activate drone, place, fire ship) ships really want a concentrate fire dial at this point ( not my favorite dial) so they can maximise the number of black dice they are throwing at range.

Beyond round three you get into the close range game, with a more standard defensive fighter play where you activate your more traditional heavy fighters using fighter dials, although you will be at a disadvantage because you had to feed in your Awings piecemeal early game and you still need to keep position against target ships. The only advantage you have is that you will be maximising the firepower from your dice, so kill his carriers and win the ship to ship game.

Because of the need for significant fighter investment and the nerf he puts on the fighters he is sub optimal compared to rieekan, but then who is not. He does offer significant firepower improvements for ships and can introduce some very interesting builds, if your concern is dice modification one potential build is around home one,getting its needed single blue dice at range and assault frigates with O/E ( three black dice with rerolls and an Acurracy is not bad at any range). He's hard to play and is in no way close to being a top flight leader, but he adds a real twist to rebel red dice throwers and I love him for that.

Sato was a good design. Just... underpowered. Having to go through some loops is good for the game. I think another issue is actually the power of bombers. You mgiht as well get 134 fighters/bombers when you go Sato, and that leaves little room for any meaningful use of Sato. Now, if you took say... 5 Awings and Jan for 74 points and that was enough to defend vs pure bombers, taht would be a great list. Instead of choking on mandatory 134 squadrons + a few copies of BCC at that point, and might as well throw in a Yavaris or something... Youre like... 250 points spent already! Let's not forget the argument that everyone should also choke on 40-50pts of mandatory flotillas to get 5 activations.

Hmm but has anyone acutally tried 1 or 2 of the VSD2s with Disposables? Do they need anything else? Gunnery Team? xi7? H9?

If we go for the cheapest versions. I wonder if VSD2 + Disp + SFO is a good buy. (Probably with Moffy J)

5 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Sato was a good design. Just... underpowered. Having to go through some loops is good for the game. I think another issue is actually the power of bombers. You mgiht as well get 134 fighters/bombers when you go Sato, and that leaves little room for any meaningful use of Sato. Now, if you took say... 5 Awings and Jan for 74 points and that was enough to defend vs pure bombers, taht would be a great list. Instead of choking on mandatory 134 squadrons + a few copies of BCC at that point, and might as well throw in a Yavaris or something... Youre like... 250 points spent already! Let's not forget the argument that everyone should also choke on 40-50pts of mandatory flotillas to get 5 activations.

Hmm but has anyone acutally tried 1 or 2 of the VSD2s with Disposables? Do they need anything else? Gunnery Team? xi7? H9?

If we go for the cheapest versions. I wonder if VSD2 + Disp + SFO is a good buy. (Probably with Moffy J)

Im looking forward to trying out and putting some table time in with a Disvic list, I'm thinking two - three of the dudes to really maximise that long range engagement, with the standard goz/fighter support package and all controlled by the big J.

Unfortunatly I'm practicing for store champs at present and don't have time to play with pre-release stuff, but after its game on.

I wrote up something quick. Two VSD2s with SFO and DCs is 89points x2! Ahh I'm in love!

Objectives are kinda meh.

Moffy J probably better than Sloane here.

These 4 squadrons should give you a nice speed bump until you can long range the carriers. And in the darkness pulverize them.

Demo is demo. With Kallus gives some good back up AA.

VVGZZ Moffy J x2 longVics s4 b5

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 395/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
= 89 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
= 89 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
= 46 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 84 total ship cost

1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)
1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)
2 TIE Defender Squadrons ( 32 points)

Card view link

Fleet

There's even the chance of some stupid stupid 3 Vic lists now.

Wish I had room for ExRacks on the VSD1. Wow. VSD1 with ExRacks and OE. That's punchy. That's scary. Sure, you'll die to Ackbar, but anything else? Is gonna regret getting anywhere close to you whatsoever. Exracks is any arc too.

VVVZZ Moffy J 3 Victories s4 b1

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
= 96 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
= 96 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
= 97 total ship cost

1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)
2 TIE Defender Squadrons ( 32 points)

Card view link

Fleet created

Gotta remember that at long range an evade is a straight cancel.

So relying on a screed for a blue crit at long range for overload pulse etc may be disappointing. Good against large ships though.

45 minutes ago, Ophion said:

Gotta remember that at long range an evade is a straight cancel.

So relying on a screed for a blue crit at long range for overload pulse etc may be disappointing. Good against large ships though.

Better going for leading shots to get the red rerolls as needed.

vsd2 + warlord + sw7+ DC + gunnery teams.

18 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

I think I found the list for you!

Drasnighta's Janky Sato

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 398/400

Commander: Commander Sato

Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[ flagship ] Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Commander Sato ( 32 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 93 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 61 total ship cost

Ow do you plan to trigger Sato's ability without fighters?