1 hour ago, Astech said:

So I can put PTL on Kavil and it's brilliant? Or attanni on a single ship? Or crack shot on Dash? Predator on Vessery? None of those upgrades can be used without centering a pilot - or indeed, a whole list - on them.

That's why I put the caveat "pretty much always useful" at the end of the sentence. Hyperbole aside, the list of ship/pilots predator is good on is a lot longer than the list for snapshot. You literally named one of a handful of pilots that doesn't benefit as much from Predator, it's not exactly a convincing argument.

List of things Snapshot is good on:

List of things Predator is good on:

Regardless my point wasn't that Snapshot is bad, or even bad compared to predator, it's just very niche. You can't throw it on most ships like Predator, VI or Crackshot and expect it to work well.

3 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

I still have no idea why Major Rhymer with Tactician is even a thing. Its still only stress at R2.... Whaaat?

It's actually not a bad ship. catching big ships at R2 is relatively easy if you move first (hello Dengar!), and with all the Attanni in the meta atm stress control is back. Moving second is also OK as you can use it to deny manoeuvring space to your opponent and control where the move. If Rhymer was like 4 points cheaper it might actually be competitive.

Snap on a high pilot skill Deci? Yes please.

50 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Snap on a high pilot skill Deci? Yes please.

The triple-Vader memes are real!

"Snapshot is the best!"

"snapshot isn't the best..."

Ever thought of going into politics?

2 minutes ago, Xerandar said:

"Snapshot is the best!"

"snapshot isn't the best..."

Ever thought of going into politics?

Considering you're the third person to say this, I'm not so sure. Normally politicians have smart people criticising them...

My original post made it clear: snap shot isn't the most objectively powerful upgrade, but it was the best designed in the game, with powerful builds rivalling that of the big meta-lists without NPEs.

Your ad hominem reaction is very much a politician's one.

Especially when you argue against something so demonstrably true. You say in your title it's the best upgrade. Then you say it isn't.

3 minutes ago, Astech said:

with powerful builds rivalling that of the big meta-lists without NPEs.*

* citation needed.

2 minutes ago, Xerandar said:

Your reaction is very much a politician's one.

Especially when you argue against something so demonstrably true. You say in your title it's the best upgrade. Then you say it isn't.

"Best is a very ill-defined measure. I started saying it was my favourite upgrade, and a counter to most of the best upgrades in the game. I then concluded that it wasn't the most powerful upgrade, but that it countered many things. i never contradicted myself.

3 minutes ago, SOTL said:

* citation needed.

You know, winning several regionals with lists based around the upgrade.

Except your thread title explicitly states:

"Snap Shot Is The Game's Best Upgrade"

Thus, I'm guessing you're the most persecuted forumite in history?

Rhymer with snapshot and tactician is good because it makes the target ship skip their perform action step, paving the way to other epts such as opportunist (to a certain degree, see attanni).

its drawback is the cost, chewing up a third of the list already.

2 minutes ago, Xerandar said:

Except your thread title explicitly states:

"Snap Shot Is The Game's Best Upgrade"

Thus, I'm guessing you're the most persecuted forumite in history?

"Best" is ill-defined.

8 minutes ago, Astech said:

Normally politicians have smart people criticising them...

2 minutes ago, Astech said:

"Best" is ill-defined.

Yet one you freely use and, on your own terms, contradict.

3 minutes ago, Xerandar said:

Yet one you freely use and, on your own terms, contradict.

Let's straighten it out:

Snap Shot is the best designed card.

It is not the arbitrarily decreed best card in the game in general.

Snap shot is great until you run into Fenn Rau. Try hitting that #$%#. Especially because he will almost always have a mindlink focus before he moves.

35 minutes ago, Astech said:

"Best is a very ill-defined measure. I started saying it was my favourite upgrade, and a counter to most of the best upgrades in the game. I then concluded that it wasn't the most powerful upgrade, but that it countered many things. i never contradicted myself.

You know, winning several regionals with lists based around the upgrade.

I remember a Norra/A-Wing one that did well somewhere. Anything else?

Edit: top 8 at Hoth Open, I believe.

6 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

I still have no idea why Major Rhymer with Tactician is even a thing. Its still only stress at R2.... Whaaat?

It's because of the timing. SnapTac Rhymer creates a giant range 2 no-action zone.

32 minutes ago, Astech said:

Let's straighten it out:

Snap Shot is the best designed card.

It is not the arbitrarily decreed best card in the game in general.

But is the arbitrarily-decreed best designed card. By you and only you.

4 hours ago, Astech said:

Snap-A-wings won at least 2 Regionals. Also, you're using bandwagon fallacy - everybody is going it therefore it's best.

Dates and locations please or it didn't happen. I realize not all regional results are in the juggler, but the meta analyzer for the past year doesn't even list the archetype for Snap-A-wings, let alone mention them winning "at least 2 regionals". If they did, you can bet the archetype would be at least present in the other tournaments as well.

Also, you got the logic on bandwagon fallacy backwards. There's a world of difference between "everybody is going it therefore it's best" and "nobody is going it therefore it probably sucks". For example, nobody is using rookie pilot swarm these days and guess what, it sucks. In other words, what everybody is using might not always be the best, but what nobody is using is almost always bad.

Last but not least, your criteria for "best designed card" are arbitrary and somewhat murky. A card doesn't have to be massively popular to be well designed but if it's unpopular to such an extent that you might attend a dozen tournaments and never see it used, there's clearly something wrong with it. Cards are designed to be used in the actual game. If people don't do that, the card is not a success from the point of game design, no matter what your theorizing might suggest.

I have used it on Nien Nunb and R3A2 usually get it off about 3 to 4 times, it ends up being a control element. Caught a Decimeter this last week-end, stressed it kept it from boosting our of range and ended up dealing 13 points of damage in 1 turn. Not the best or perfect card, but when used with other weapons it can influence movement patterns.

I love, LOVE snapshot. My current list is
Green Squadron X3
Snapshot, Juke, Autothrusters (except one)
Braylen in an Arc170 with Operations Specialist and Swarm Leader.

IMO Green squadron pilots are the best snap shot swarm for Rebels. For imperials, I think they have some great options, but most are PS7.

Major Rhymer, with tactician gets snapshot at range two. And stress!
Mauler Mithel, and Zeta Ace, and Pure Sabaac can get snap shot at 3 dice.
Both of the new pilots previewed in today's tie Aggressor work with Snap Shot:
Kestal basically gets to snapshot Juke since his ability is modifying defense dice.
Double Edged can miss with Snapshot (a secondary weapon!) and then fire again, giving him up to three attacks a round!

1 minute ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

Both of the new pilots previewed in today's tie Aggressor work with Snap Shot:
Kestal basically gets to snapshot Juke since his ability is modifying defense dice.
Double Edged can miss with Snapshot (a secondary weapon!) and then fire again, giving him up to three attacks a round!

Hate to break it to you: Snap shot specifies that you can't attack again this phase, so Double Edged doesn't work. And only in rare cases will Kestal be firing on someone who has a focus to modify, so her ability doesn't work at all like Juke in this context (the reason juke works is because the opponent is unlikely to have a focus in the first place).

3 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

Snap shot is great until you run into Fenn Rau. Try hitting that #$%#. Especially because he will almost always have a mindlink focus before he moves.

YMMV, but Against Fenn, you just pour every die into him and his ability, which relies on dice, will eventually fail. That said in tournament, not testing, play (using my tripple snap Green A wing list) I have faced him three times and: Killed him in one round of shooting because Swarm Leader puts six Dice to his four (plus three other guys getting lucky across 6 shots).
Had him be the lone survivor at one hull, spending the last twenty minutes of the game running away from one A wing (Fenn also had the "PS0" crit), and finally One where he was half dead and I was tabled. Fenn is good, but he only gets one token from mindlink, so if you can shoot all the shots he will die.

4 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

Hate to break it to you: Snap shot specifies that you can't attack again this phase, so Double Edged doesn't work. And only in rare cases will Kestal be firing on someone who has a focus to modify, so her ability doesn't work at all like Juke in this context (the reason juke works is because the opponent is unlikely to have a focus in the first place).

You're right about double edge. I got too excited when I read the ability.
You're wrong about Kestal, Mindlink comes to mind to start, and I'm sure there's other defense mods I'm just not thinking about at the moment.

2 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

You're right about double edge. I got too excited when I read the ability.
You're wrong about Kestal, Mindlink comes to mind to start, and I'm sure there's other defense mods I'm just not thinking about at the moment.

True. I guess I think of Juke as good against most things (Juke will push a damage through, or strip tokens) as opposed to Kestral being a bit more specific (if I come up against Mindlink/Palpatine/Lone Wolf, I may be able to push a damage through).

It's not bad, it's just a bit more meta dependent in my mind.