Ive been working on this for a while and im just looking for feedback on it. The Idea is that Ive personally never liked the standard rules for space battles in the Fantasy Flight RPGs. They were to abstract and my players never got in to it so they started saving up destiny points just to spend them all trying to skip the space battles. So what I did was I read on loads the forums here to get myself started, bought a bunch of X-Wing models and wrote all these rules. All ships used with my rules are all actual models from X-Wing. Some rules are copied straight from the books and som are added by myself.

Xwing combat

0. If this is the first round of combat all players/NPCs must take a Initiative check

1. Select movement (in secret)

2. Move the ships

4. Do Actions / Maneuvers in order of Initiative

Explanation of phases

1. Use the movement dial to select how far and where each ship will move

2. Everyone shows their movement dial and then moves their ship in the initiative order of the Pilot for each ship. If two ships end up on each other, it's the ship with the highest initiative that stays, and so the latter of the two has to move backwards until they both fit. The pilot of the second ship also has to take a Navigate Terrain Maneuver at this time. Two ships that have there bases in touch with one another cant shoot at eachother because it usually means they are right above or below one another. The ships can fly over each other without needing to take this Maneuver.

3. All roles can make a selection of Actions / Maneuvers based on what there role on the ship is.

Gunner

Responsible for shooting everything unfriendly or in som cases friendly within there reach.

Actions:

• Shoot, A shot can be made against a ship/modell that is behind another ship/modell without any penalty except for range. The range bands are 1-5 wich is the direct equivalent Close-Extreme. Any ships weapons can shoot at any range but its harder based on the weapons original range band. For each range band after the original the Difficulty of the shot is upgraded by 1. After the first upgrade the ship then also takes one System Strain per upgrade as well. So say a weapon with the Close range wanted to shoot at a Extreme range, then the difficulty of the shot would be upgraded 4 times and the ship would take 3 System Strain. If a weapon with Medium range wanted to shoot at Extreme, then the difficulty of the shot would be upgraded twice and the ship would take 1 System Strain.

Maneuvers:

• Aim, Gain a blue die on your next shot against a target. Can be done more than once per turn.

Pilot

Responsible for the Movement dial that controls the ship. The pilot always has one less maneuver every turn as long as he is controlling the ship. If a pilot chooses a red arrow on the Movement dial (eg, Barrel Roll), then the pilot must take a Hard Piloting check. Failing the role may have a different impact based on how the test fails. For example, if Barrel Roll on Movement 4 would fail without any extra Fail markers, then the ship moves forward 4 but does not turn 180 degrees. For each Fail after the first, the ship moves one less movement until 0. All Advantages and Disadvantages can be used as usual.

Actions:

• Shoot, (In some cases) (Please see Gunners "Shoot" Action for info)
• Plot Course, The Pilot will plot a course and take a Hard Perception check, for each hit, the difficulty of Piloting checks will be reduced by one until the end of the pilots next turn plus an additional turn for each two Advantages. If the role fails, the pilot gets a black die on his Piloting checks until the end of the next turn.
• Damage Control, Can only be used once per battle and only by pilots in smaller vehicles for one to two people. Easy if the ship's Hull Trauma / System Strain is over half of the standard. Average if the ship's Hull Trauma / System Strain is less than half the standard. Hard if the ship's Hull Trauma / System Strain is at zero. For each hit, the ship recovers one Hull Trauma, for each Advantage, the ship recovers one System Strain and for each Critt the ship gets back 2 Hull Trauma or 4 System Strain.
• Jump To Hyperspace, The test is always made with an Astrogation test. It takes 5 rounds to calibrate the jump before it's ready but it's possible to shortenthis amount of time. The difficulty is based on what kind of stressfull situation your in plus other factors, for example if youve taken that spcific Hyper Space route before. There are two ways to cut down on time to calibrate the jump. The first option is just do the roll and hope for good tidings. For every two Advantage you can cut down the time by one round, for every extra hit you can cut the time down with one round and for each Critt, the time is reduced by two rounds. The second option is to upgrade the Difficulty by one per round you lower.
• Spoof Missiles, The pilot takes a Hard Vigilance test that upgrades the Difficulty of all weapons with the Guided Quality that is shooting on the Pilot's ship. Plus an upgrade per two Advantage until the next round.
• BOOST!, Only available in a one to two seater. The Pilot boosts the ship's engines to get a little farther away or a little closer to a hostile ship. The maximum range of BOOST! is the ships Speed. You do so by taking a Mechanics test. To move 1, it takes 2 System Strain and it's an Average Mechanics check, moving 2, it takes 3 System Strain and the test will be Hard and so on up to Daunting. After Daunting, the difficulty is upgraded by 1 per extra length. You can only move straight forward with a BOOST! Action. The ship always takes System Strain whether you succeed or not but only half of what you would take if you fail the test rounded down. The Pilot always ads one black die to this test.

Maneuvers:

• Stay On Target, the pilot does an opposed Piloting check against a pilot/ship +/- action on both ships. If the pilot is successful with the check, the next attack on the selected ship is upgraded with one.
• Evasive Maneuvers, the exact same test as the "Stay On Target" Maneuver except the result of this if Successfull is that it upgrades the difficulty of the next attack on the pilot/ship.
• Angle Deflector Shields, Move one point of Defense from one zone to another.
• Navigate Terrain, If the pilot drives into, through or starts his turn on asteroids/spacejunk/a ship the pilot needs to use a maneuver to avoid the asteroids/spacejunk/ship in question (unless the pilot woke up on the wrong side that morning and felt that Today, it wants to ram an asteroid). The difficulty is either the speed the ship runs in/drove on or half of the ship's own Silhouette (the highest of the two). If the test fails the ship takes a collision of the Game Masters choice.
• Aim, Only available if the Pilot can actually "Shoot". (Please see Gunners "Aim" Maneuver for info)

Co-Pilot

Supporter to anyone who needs it on the ship. The Co-Pilot can always support anyone onboard the ship using the Assist maneuver, even if he/she isnt sitting right next to person in question. The Co-Pilot can always choose to change his/her Initiative to match the Pilots so they can make their Actions/Maneuvers at the same time.

Actions:

• Co-Pilot, The Co-Pilot helps the Pilot to take its course and takes an Average Astrogation Check. For each hit, the difficulty of the Pilots next Piloting checks is lowered by one until the Pilots next roll, plus an additional round for every two Advantage.
• Jamming, The Co-Pilot jams a ship's communications. The test is an Average Computers check. The Co-Pilot must keep a Maneuver per turn thereafter to keep the communications on the target closed unless the targeted ship succeeds in a Average Computer check during their turn with an extra difficulty for each hit the original check made.
• Scan The Enemy, Take a Hard Computers check to scan a ship within sensor range. On a successful attempt, you can roll two Critical Hits on one players next hit and choose one of the two results. Works on more Critical Hits per two hits in addition to the first one. All Advantages and Critts from the role can be used to receive information about passengers or what cargo the ship is loaded with. In addition, they can also be used to trigger Weapon Qualities or Critical Hits for when the Next weapon hits.
• Slice Enemy Systems, Take a Hard Computers Check to Lower a Ship's Defense in one Zone Per hit. Two Advantages can be used to remove a System Strain and a Critt can be used to turn off a weapon on the ship.
• Jump To Hyperspace, The test is always made with an Astrogation test. It takes 5 rounds to calibrate the jump before it's ready but it's possible to shortenthis amount of time. The difficulty is based on what kind of stressfull situation your in plus other factors, for example if youve taken that spcific Hyper Space route before. There are two ways to cut down on time to calibrate the jump. The first option is just do the roll and hope for good tidings. For every two Advantage you can cut down the time by one round, for every extra hit you can cut the time down with one round and for each Critt, the time is reduced by two rounds. The second option is to upgrade the Difficulty by one per round you lower. The Co-Pilot always adds a blue die to this test.
• Spoof Missiles, The Co-Pilot takes an Average Computers test that upgrades the Difficulty of all weapons that has the Guided Quality and shoots on the Co-Pilot's ship. Plus an upgrade in difficulty per two Advantage until the Co-Pilots next turn. Can be done at any range from enemy ships.
• BOOST!, Only available in a one to two seater. The Co-Pilot boosts the ship's engines to get a little farther away or a little closer to a hostile ship. The maximum range of BOOST! is the ships Speed. You do so by taking a Mechanics test. To move 1, it takes 2 System Strain and it's an Average Mechanics check, moving 2, it takes 3 System Strain and the test will be Hard and so on up to Daunting. After Daunting, the difficulty is upgraded by 1 per extra length. You can only move straight forward with a BOOST! Action. The ship always takes System Strain whether you succeed or not but only half of what you would take if you fail the test rounded down. The Co-Pilot always ads one black die to this test.

Maneuvers:

• Angle Deflector Shields, Move one point of Defense from one zone to another.

Engineer

Responsible for keeping the ship up and running in peek condotion. The engineer can always use two Advantage to give his own ship one System Strain back if he/she is working on something on the ship at that time.

Actions:

• Boost Shields, The Mechanic increases the shields in a zone by 1 for one turn plus an extra turn per hit after the first in exchange for 1 System Strain per extra turn. For every three Advantages or one Critt you can increase the shields in another zone in exchange for System Strain per point you increase.
• Slice Enemy Systems, Take a Hard Computers Check to Lower a Ship's Defense in one Zone for one Round per Hit. Two Advantages can be used to remove a System Strain and a Critt can be used to turn off a weapon onboard the ship.
• Damage Control, Can only be used once per battle to recover Hull Trauma. Easy if the ship's Hull Trauma/System Strain is past half of the Ships standard Hull Trauma/System Strain. Average if the ship's Hull Trauma/System Strain is less than half of the Ships standard Hull Trauma/System Strain. Hard if the ship's Hull Trauma/System Strain is at zero. For each hit (first time only, then 1 System strain) the ship recovers one Hull Trauma, for each Advantage, the ship recovers one System Strain and for each Critt the ship gets back 2 Hull Trauma (first time only, then 1 Hull Trauma) .
• Manual Repair, You must have the right tools to do this. Make a Damage Control check with a Hard Athletics test instead. If you succeed, you will recover 1 Hull Trauma plus 1 per two hits thereafter. You can not get System Strain back with this test.
• BOOST!, The engineer boosts the ship's engines to get a little farther away or a little closer to a hostile ship. The maximum range of BOOST! is the ships Speed. You do so by taking a Mechanics test. To move 1, it takes 2 System Strain and it's an Average Mechanics check, moving 2, it takes 3 System Strain and the test will be Hard and so on up to Daunting. After Daunting, the difficulty is upgraded by 1 per extra length. You can only move straight forward with a BOOST! Action. The ship always takes System Strain whether you succeed or not but only half of what you would take if you fail the test rounded down.
• Boost sensors, On a Hard Computers check the Engineer can boost the shields by one up to a maximum of Extreme for one round if succesfull. Every two Advantage increases the rounds by one.

Everyone can do these

Actions:

• Moral Boost, Average Leadership Test, or Hard Discipline check if you do not know the team so well, to give a teammate a blue to its next role or a Hard Leadership role (or a Daunting Discipline role) that boosts up to three others Teammates on board. Upgrade the difficulty thereafter for each extra in addition to the three you want to boost.
• Scan The Enemy, take a Daunting Perception check to scan a ship. On a successful attempt, you can roll two Critical Hits on the next hit and choose one of the two results. Works on more Critical Hits per two hits in addition to the first one. All Advantages and Critts from the role can be used to launch Weapon Qualities or Critical Hits for the next hit.

Maneuvers:

• Assist, give a blue die to a teammate next to you as a helping hand. Can only be done once per turn and only for one character at a time.

ATTACK DIFFICULTY

Silhouette of Firer

+/- 1 than target - Average

Silhouettes 2+ smaller than target - Easy

Silhouettes 2 Larger than target - Hard

Silhouettes 3 Larger than target - Daunting

Silhouettes 4+ Larger than target - harder than Daunting

When it comes to shooting, any ship can target any ship within range of the ships sensors plus one. So a ship with a sensor range of close can target and shoot a ship at short range, a ship with short range can target a ship at Medium range and so on.

The piloting Maneuvers "Stay on target" and "Evasive Maneuvers" can be made at any range without any penalties.

Slicing Maneuvers and Actions that targets an enemies internal systems, computers and shields has to be within sensor range of the ship.

All Astromech rules are still the same as from the original rules, I just havent bothered with just copying them and writing them down here.

The problem - well one of the many problems of trying to fit an X-Wing shaped peg in a EotE sized hole - is that the game just takes way too **** long. I have blown through many an evening playing a single game of X-Wing. What might take a short while in the RPG will dominate the whole session.

You also don't address the other huge issue I have trying to bolt one game onto another. What happens to all those awesome pilot talents that I spent a ton of points on? They're meaningless now and you've just cut the legs out from under my character.

Never mind what the poor pilot does during the X-Wing session , what does the face guy do ? What does the force user do? What does the marauder do? That's a whole session where a lot of other character archetypes sit around doing nothing .

23 minutes ago, Desslok said:

the game just takes way too **** long

Agreed. This is also why I no longer run Mechwarrior.

Penguin and the pirate hit your core weaknesses. I'm a face or a jedi, with the narrative I can figure out what I want to do based on the action, things that a board game like x-wing will never ever ever be able to factor in.

The narrative space combat system is weird, and if your players dont like it I wouldn't try and force it down their throats by crossbreeding it with something even less likely to support them well....

Yup i just use x-wing minis as placement. nothing more.

7 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

Penguin and the pirate. . . .

Well, there's a Cop Buddy Movie for you! Or a Threes-Company style sitcom.

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

Yup i just use x-wing minis as placement. nothing more.

So am I the only one who's afraid that I'll break off the guns (or whatever) from the minis? If I were doing this, I'd use the ugly-as-sin, but much more durable WotC minis.

Before you hack a game system, you should always dig down to why you're doing it, and what you hope to accomplish. While the thought of crossing over different FF Star Wars games does tickle something in my brain, I just see a nightmare when I think about getting to the nitty-gritty.

You should find out why your players aren't enjoying the space combat scenes and try to adapt what you're doing to their tastes. How do they feel about combat on foot, for comparison? What do they like, and what do they hate? How do they feel about the 'structured' mode of play versus 'narrative'? Do any of them just feel useless? Are they familiar enough with the vehicle combat rules to know how they can contribute? Are there any space battles in their favorite media you might try to emulate?

It's also quite possible they just don't like space combat for whatever reason, and you shouldn't force them to engage in it if you can't find a way to please them.

Think about breaking from "standard" battles: Would the Marauder be happier if he had to fight boarding parties? Would the Mechanic enjoy a race to repair the sabotaged hyperdrive before they get within firing range of that Star Destroyer? Would the Smuggler enjoy a sneaking past customs bluffing over the comms while the Slicer interferes with their sensors? Would the tactically-minded Mercenary enjoy a submarine-like battle inside a nebula or asteroid field? Would the Bounty Hunter prefer a chase where he has to outsmart an elusive opponent in a non-combat ship?

My group uses X-wing whenever we get into space combat, but Edge for everything else.

Basically we all started out with equal amounts of "Squad XP" and a starfighter. We don't have anything larger than that at the moment. Every fight we get into nets us more Xp to spend directly on our X-wing Only Levels.

In order to level up, we have to spend double xp per the level:

2nd - 4xp

3rd - 6xp

4th - 8xp

And so on till level 9, coming out to a total of 44xp to level up to Max.

Every level gets you access to the ability to have a new mod equipped, and 3 of the levels give you access to a new Elite Pilot Talent to have equipped.

Basically:

1 - Elite Pilot Talent (EPT)

2 - Mod

3 - EPT

4 - Mod

5 - Mod

6 - Mod

7 - Mod

8 - Mod

9 - EPT

This indicates the amount of Mods and Elite Pilot Talents the player may have simultaneously equipped to their ship according to their level.

The XP they earn is also currency for buying these pilot talents, according to the card's requirements.

So you have to level up enough to equip the mod or EPT, Buy the Mod or EPT with xp, and then use Edge game currency to purchase and install the damned mod on your ship.

We haven't had the chance to get higher than level 2 yet, so no word on if it's ridiculous at high levels yet, but it is remarkably freeing to not have to stat out a pilot and still stay relevant in space combat. My gunslinger is flying around in a Protectorate, and I can't wait to try out my new talent (I just bought Push the Limit.)

I see all your points and Inreally do appreciate all the criticisms (excuse the spelling). And I do see your point, so far the space battles have taken an hour or two but luckiky we dont have one single face character in our group, most of them focus on some sort of combat and we try to keep the charm, coercion and negotiation rolls to a minimum. Rather more focusing on choosing the right words to say to the right NPC.

but I do see your points as I said earlier and so my reply to it is, how would you guys make your games more visuall? Or at least how would you get your pplayers more intrigued in the act of space combat?

5 minutes ago, Darcune said:

My group uses X-wing whenever we get into space combat, but Edge for everything else.

Basically we all started out with equal amounts of "Squad XP" and a starfighter. We don't have anything larger than that at the moment. Every fight we get into nets us more Xp to spend directly on our X-wing Only Levels.

In order to level up, we have to spend double xp per the level:

2nd - 4xp

3rd - 6xp

4th - 8xp

And so on till level 9, coming out to a total of 44xp to level up to Max.

Every level gets you access to the ability to have a new mod equipped, and 3 of the levels give you access to a new Elite Pilot Talent to have equipped.

Basically:

1 - Elite Pilot Talent (EPT)

2 - Mod

3 - EPT

4 - Mod

5 - Mod

6 - Mod

7 - Mod

8 - Mod

9 - EPT

This indicates the amount of Mods and Elite Pilot Talents the player may have simultaneously equipped to their ship according to their level.

The XP they earn is also currency for buying these pilot talents, according to the card's requirements.

So you have to level up enough to equip the mod or EPT, Buy the Mod or EPT with xp, and then use Edge game currency to purchase and install the damned mod on your ship.

We haven't had the chance to get higher than level 2 yet, so no word on if it's ridiculous at high levels yet, but it is remarkably freeing to not have to stat out a pilot and still stay relevant in space combat. My gunslinger is flying around in a Protectorate, and I can't wait to try out my new talent (I just bought Push the Limit.)

But may I ask what happens to the originall skill trees like Smuggler - Pilot, is it completely cut out or do you still use them together with the X-Wing rules somehow?

9 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

Penguin and the pirate hit your core weaknesses. I'm a face or a jedi, with the narrative I can figure out what I want to do based on the action, things that a board game like x-wing will never ever ever be able to factor in.

The narrative space combat system is weird, and if your players dont like it I wouldn't try and force it down their throats by crossbreeding it with something even less likely to support them well....

So how does a force - face act in space then? Or does your group not dabble into space then?

9 hours ago, Desslok said:

The problem - well one of the many problems of trying to fit an X-Wing shaped peg in a EotE sized hole - is that the game just takes way too **** long. I have blown through many an evening playing a single game of X-Wing. What might take a short while in the RPG will dominate the whole session.

You also don't address the other huge issue I have trying to bolt one game onto another. What happens to all those awesome pilot talents that I spent a ton of points on? They're meaningless now and you've just cut the legs out from under my character.

No you see thats the beuty of this hybrid of wich Ive created. All the skills and talents from EOTE and AOR still works. You still role the same dies as the pilot, the gunner still makes his usual gunnery checks and the co pilot still does calculations (and stuff).

3 minutes ago, mabro95 said:

So how does a force - face act in space then? Or does your group not dabble into space then?

I don't presume to speak for anyone, but my feeling is that a character in the narrative system can do almost anything that they dream up. Perhaps they're spotting for asteroids for the gunner to blow up to create obstacles and/or shrapnel. Maybe they're trying to hack the enemy's computer targeting system. Maybe they're packing explosive into the escape pod and waiting for the right moment to fire it toward the enemy. Perhaps they're singing, bellowing, or playing Gamorrean opera at maximum volume over the comm net in an effort to distract or confuse pursuers. In a narrative system, Destiny points aside, the sky's the limit and that doesn't translate particularly well to a tabletop implementation like X-Wing.

Additionally, a really talented pilot ought to be able to do things with her ship that a less-experienced pilot just can't do; his familiarity with the airframe (spaceframe?) lets her push it right to the ragged edge of the envelope. The flightpath mechanics of X-Wing, while useful in a tabletop game, don't really support that disparate skill level of a true master pilot.

8 minutes ago, mabro95 said:

So how does a force - face act in space then? Or does your group not dabble into space then?

By not making space encounters only about ships blowing each other up.

Force users can influence initiative rolls, they can find specific targets, they can buff their own abilities, they can make ships perform better.

Face people can use Deception to sow confusion, Charm to avoid a fight altogether, Leadership to buff the crew potentially, Coercion to force a surrender without a shot.

They can't do any of that is you use X-wing rules and your sole point to ship encounters is depleting the other guys Hull Threshold.

18 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

They can't do any of that is you use X-wing rules and your sole point to ship encounters is depleting the other guys Hull Threshold.

So should I perhaps try adding some sort of Social rules/etiquette to the hybrid game Im creating or is your sugestion me scraping all of it to try out space battles from a new angle?

Im not asking asking to be rude I just like this discussion right here. As I said Im thankfull to all feedback I get

21 minutes ago, SFC Snuffy said:

Additionally, a really talented pilot ought to be able to do things with her ship that a less-experienced pilot just can't do; his familiarity with the airframe (spaceframe?) lets her push it right to the ragged edge of the envelope. The flightpath mechanics of X-Wing, while useful in a tabletop game, don't really support that disparate skill level of a true master pilot.

Yeah, one of my players pointed this out so I made the rule for having to take a hard piloting check to make special maneuvers like barrel rolls or other similiar acrobatic space moves. This in fact made a huge difference with the players as not everybody could make it anymore and the players with the highest piloting skills could make some special moves with advantages to spare for other fun stuff.

8 minutes ago, mabro95 said:

So should I perhaps try adding some sort of Social rules/etiquette to the hybrid game Im creating or is your sugestion me scraping all of it to try out spce battles from a new angle?

When you're crafting encounters in a RPG it should never be all about any one thing. It's like the Melee Viability thread. If you play your character like a dice pool with a name, and as a one trick pony, and you don't' like the one trick, the system ain't broke, the concept is just linear and inflexible.

Ship combat in a RPG shouldn't just be roll dice on Gun X and do Damage Y to Target Z. That's X-wing. If that's all you aspire to with your ship encounters, so be it. I wouldn't add anything, I'd just roll dice and check off boxes on a ship counter. To say the rules are lacking is incorrect though, it's your encounters that are lacking.

On 5/20/2017 at 8:51 PM, mabro95 said:

The Idea is that Ive personally never liked the standard rules for space battles in the Fantasy Flight RPGs. They were to abstract and my players never got in to it so they started saving up destiny points just to spend them all trying to skip the space battles.

I think the place to start is to really, really, and I mean really, dive into the vehicle combat rules and make a point of understanding them. Not just the GM, but the players too. It should not fall solely on the GMs shoulders to make things interesting for the players. They too need to understand how these rules work.

They are a little clunky at first, and highly abstract. But once you really understand them (I mean really understand!) they actually work very well.

Some 'key' concepts if you will (which is hardly a comprehensive list, and is really mostly just my own opinions)

1.) This is a narrative RPG system. If something is happening in space between space borne vehicles it needs to be for a reason and related to the story being told, however tangential. It shouldn't happen just to happen. If there is nothing consequential to the fight, there is no reason to have it.

2.) Depending on the ships being run, non-pilot/non-gunner characters can still have plenty to do. Check out the laundry list of options on page 237 that characters can do. And this list is not exhaustive. If a player has a great idea for a skill, let them give it a roll. Also challenge your players to come up with creative uses of their skills. This cannot always fall on the GM to figure out.

3.) Talents like Scathing Tirade or Inspiring Rhetoric can be used in vehicle combat. Make the enemy thankful you jammed their comms so they stop getting dispiriting propaganda over their loud speakers!

4.) For crying out loud take the Shot! I don't care if a person has 2 green for a pool, if there is a gunner station to man, it beats leaving it unused. Double aiming, advantages passed off to give boosts, use of the Fire Discipline action, coupled with an assist can suddenly add 4 or 5 blue dice to a check. Hitting is easier than players sometimes think. And just remember, you miss every shot you don't take.

5.) Speed, speed, speed! It takes a maneuver to increase or decrease speed, and this action economy is huge in vehicle combat. For one threat (yep, just one), you can reduce an enemy's speed by 1. This can be significant if you drop an enemy below a speed needed to perform certain maneuvers. Its even more brutal when the ship in question is sil 5 or higher and has to spend its one allowed maneuver to simply regain the speed it lost.

6.) Battles in space rarely happen in a vacuum (yeah that was a really sucky pun... ooops, did it again). They happen where they happen for a reason. Which is most cases is going to be somewhere inhabited, and often where there is a lot of crap in the way (other ships, debris, derelict satellites... you get the picture). So use terrain. Put stuff in the way that can be used for good purpose. Require piloting checks to move through it, but also give advantages to the daring pilots who do (bonuses to defense, maybe a chance to sneak up behind an enemy who lost you in the 'cloud').

7.) Remember the initiative order is very fluid, which means different PCs can take different slots every round. This allows for very dynamic fights where a person can go twice in a row.

I really struggled to understand the vehicle combat rules for the longest time, because I was approaching them more from a table top wargame point of view. Only when I started to view them as more a narrative abstraction that is part of the ongoing story did they start to make a little more sense. I've run several space encounters now for my group (using a multi-crewed ship), and they've gone well in my opinion.

11 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

Penguin and the pirate hit your core weaknesses. I'm a face or a jedi, with the narrative I can figure out what I want to do based on the action, things that a board game like x-wing will never ever ever be able to factor in.

The narrative space combat system is weird, and if your players dont like it I wouldn't try and force it down their throats by crossbreeding it with something even less likely to support them well....

The way i get them over the space combat is weird is by pointing out that it is the same as personal scale combat with a few tweaks...and zero hull threshold is not boom on significant ships. think like the bongo sub in phantom menace. it was reduced to zero hull and disabled and a mechanics check got it back into the game.

The biggest flaw I'm seeing is that it ignores the EOTE initiative.

Personally, in my house rules, I use 1 "Movement Unit" (MU) per turn per point of speed, at start of Pilot's turn. 45° rotation is a maneuver. In atmosphere maintaining control is a maneuver. Copilot can rotate or engage erratic maneuvers, or even accelerate or decelerate. If no pilot, copilot, nor astromech, moves at end of turn.

Close ≤ 1 MU
Short ≤ 4 MU
Medium ≤9 MU
Long ≤ 16 MU
Extreme ≤ 25 MU

3 hours ago, mabro95 said:

No you see thats the beuty of this hybrid of wich Ive created. All the skills and talents from EOTE and AOR still works. You still role the same dies as the pilot, the gunner still makes his usual gunnery checks and the co pilot still does calculations (and stuff).

Okiedokie. Lets go through, oh how about Rigger, since my Engineer is working her way through that tree and I'm sorta familiar with it. We don't have to worry about the Larger Projects and fancy paint job talents, since they're mostly ground based role play, so we'll jump down the tree a bit:

How about Tuned Maneuvering Thrusters? How about Gearhead? Adding a blue or black in the X-Wing engine doesn't do anything. There's no boost or setback mechanic.

How about customized cooling unit? There's no system strain in X-Wing, so that's a worthless talent.

Speaking of system strain, how about Hold Together, the talent that lets me turn all the hull damage into strain? Does that mean that the ship now has 5 stress tokens instead of 5 wounds?

How about Solid Repairs? Between all my trees, I have 5 of those and a really good mechanics roll. When I do my fix ship wounds, I can average 10 or 12 wounds back to the ship - much more on a really good roll. How does that translate back to the X-Wing engine, where a ship has 3, perhaps 4 wounds and shields? Do I instantly repair the ship back to mint condition?

What does overstocked ammo do? Missile cards in X-Wing are one and done, use them and they go away. Do I get another missile card for my ship?

What about Bolstered Armor and Fortified Vacuum Seal? Increasing the Armor Value and Hull Trauma by one in both engines has wildly different effects to balance.

How does Reinforced Frame work? Massive is meaningless and the crits between the two engines work completely differently.

So, that's nine talents that have no direct effect on X-Wing because they have no correlating game mechanic. And that's just one character with 2 pilot-ish related trees.

5 hours ago, Desslok said:

How about Tuned Maneuvering Thrusters? How about Gearhead? Adding a blue or black in the X-Wing engine doesn't do anything. There's no boost or setback mechanic.

How about customized cooling unit? There's no system strain in X-Wing, so that's a worthless talent.

Speaking of system strain, how about Hold Together, the talent that lets me turn all the hull damage into strain? Does that mean that the ship now has 5 stress tokens instead of 5 wounds?

How about Solid Repairs? Between all my trees, I have 5 of those and a really good mechanics roll. When I do my fix ship wounds, I can average 10 or 12 wounds back to the ship - much more on a really good roll. How does that translate back to the X-Wing engine, where a ship has 3, perhaps 4 wounds and shields? Do I instantly repair the ship back to mint condition?

What does overstocked ammo do? Missile cards in X-Wing are one and done, use them and they go away. Do I get another missile card for my ship?

What about Bolstered Armor and Fortified Vacuum Seal? Increasing the Armor Value and Hull Trauma by one in both engines has wildly different effects to balance.

How does Reinforced Frame work? Massive is meaningless and the crits between the two engines work completely differently.

Yup so Im starting to see a pattern now. Im starting to think I wasnt clear enough on this. I use the same stats as the ones in EOTE ships, so theres still System Strain and Hull Trauma. I still use the normal dies so theres still boost and setback dies in the pool. There are still Actions for the mechanic onboard the ship to repair it and all your talents should work there as well. Armor value and hull trauma as I said is still there because were still using the origanal ships stats. Crits are still the same, as I said earlier we still use the same stats for ships, that also goes for the weapons pn board the ships.

i think I got to all your points there. Hopefully I didnt miss any but maybe it was my foult for not being clear about using the original ships stats and not the X-Wing ones.

7 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

The biggest flaw I'm seeing is that it ignores the EOTE initiative.

Personally, in my house rules, I use 1 "Movement Unit" (MU) per turn per point of speed, at start of Pilot's turn. 45° rotation is a maneuver. In atmosphere maintaining control is a maneuver. Copilot can rotate or engage erratic maneuvers, or even accelerate or decelerate. If no pilot, copilot, nor astromech, moves at end of turn.

Close ≤ 1 MU
Short ≤ 4 MU
Medium ≤9 MU
Long ≤ 16 MU
Extreme ≤ 25 MU

So if i read this correctly you move your ships twice per round?

once forward based on the speed and once to turn?

4 hours ago, mabro95 said:

Yup so Im starting to see a pattern now. Im starting to think I wasnt clear enough on this. I use the same stats as the ones in EOTE ships, so theres still System Strain and Hull Trauma. I still use the normal dies so theres still boost and setback dies in the pool. There are still Actions for the mechanic onboard the ship to repair it and all your talents should work there as well. Armor value and hull trauma as I said is still there because were still using the origanal ships stats. Crits are still the same, as I said earlier we still use the same stats for ships, that also goes for the weapons pn board the ships.

i think I got to all your points there. Hopefully I didnt miss any but maybe it was my foult for not being clear about using the original ships stats and not the X-Wing ones.

Okay, so its more a structured battle map more than true X-Wing. Okay, I get it now. I'm still not completely sold on the idea, but if you can get it to work for your group, then more power to you!