I've always had difficulty doing a "balanced fleet" with good ship offense and non-negligeable squadron offense as well. My fleet archetypes usually revolves around having a 60-65 points fighter wing (usually A-Wings when playing rebels) or a 120-134 points bomber wing. Has anyone been succesful in doing a 90-100 points "mix squadron wing" fleet?

Perhaps Norra + X-Wings spam??? What can be done on the imperial side?

39 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

I've always had difficulty doing a "balanced fleet" with good ship offense and non-negligeable squadron offense as well. My fleet archetypes usually revolves around having a 60-65 points fighter wing (usually A-Wings when playing rebels) or a 120-134 points bomber wing. Has anyone been succesful in doing a 90-100 points "mix squadron wing" fleet?

Perhaps Norra + X-Wings spam??? What can be done on the imperial side?

If ever I need to provide squadron cover yet am unwilling to heavily invest in them resort to 6-7 Interceptors/A-Wings. However I have found that Biggs+Jan+X-Wings to taste is nice, as is Jendon, Vader, Maarek, and either Defenders or Interceptors. Similarly Howlrunner, Dengar, and as many TIEs (either Interceptors or standard) as you are willing to use is nice. Fit in Mauler if you want. I generally like interceptors since my fighter cover is there when I don't want to invest in actively utilizing them, so there is no ship support, which means they generally activate in the Squadron Phase unless it's an emergency 'Quick! Stop that Bomber!' scenario. As such I shove them in the way of my enemies and either my opponent eats 4 counter dice or they move away. The latter of course assumes they have intel, which means they can attack my ships, which is why I have taken to splitting the force into two: The main force surrounds the edges of the group, and then a couple are split off and hang out near the ships, requiring the enemy to either have two intel ships or not attack with some/most of his bomber wing.

Now, you asked for mixed, and in that regard I can say that with Sloane, the Howl/Dengar/Interceptor ball is a valid anti-ship threat, and otherwise defenders are pretty decent. I have yet to fly Decimators though. I like X-Wings, E-Wings and either A-Wings or Z-95s. The X-Wings escort the As or Zs, all of which pin the enemy in place for the E-Wings to snipe. Only used it once, in an 800 point game, but dang was it nice. Cleaned up the entire enemy fighter wing (Interceptors and Dengar predominantly) and still had a couple ships left alive. Blount was 1 of 'em I believe. And again, should there be no or little enemy fighter coverage, the Es and X-Wings have Bomber, and even red dice can provide a decent threat en masse.

Looking at the 5 imp mid-range (80-110) multi-role fighter regionals top-table finishers, I see:

5-6 squads, heavy on Defenders (20/29 squads across 5 lists are T/Def or Stele). Jendon is the only non-defender who shows up twice.

2 of either ISD or GSD. Usually 2 gozantis. Very occasional other ships.

This archetype is reasonably competitive, if a little rare. (16 total/5 top 4/3 bottom quarter)

80-110 is larger than the range you asked for, but that's the best I can do.

There's also a 1+3 list using decimators that was successful. I can see how Imp X+3+squads lists did if you like. Don't know if they are common enough to really draw conclusions from.

My favourite medium imp fighter list is:

Jendon

Ryhmer

steale

Bossk

Jump master

strom

This is a very pokey General purpose group for 107 points, 3 deployments, 6 fighter activations. Strom is a very effective escort with braces, he gets one shot with rerolls powered by Bossk which then activates this nasty dudes Acurracy, steale is the other heavy hitter with Jendon able to super power Bossk or steale, Ryhmer gives the threat range to ships. If your attacking ships Ryhmer gives you the range, a jendon powered steale can reliably lay on 4 damage, with Bossk likely to give 2 more ( with accuracy) with 2 more blacks (one being bomber) gives you an average close to 8 damage per round. Anti fighter is good with a Bossk Jendon will put down a scatter ace or put a likely 6-7 damage on generics ( that's two ties or Z95s) steale gives a good hit, Strom with 3 reroll in reds can be nasty as well.

As a new player, Cannot Get Your Ship Out has been tremendously helpful in this regard.

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/p/squadrons-index.html

1 hour ago, WAC47 said:

As a new player, Cannot Get Your Ship Out has been tremendously helpful in this regard.

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/p/squadrons-index.html

Aw, man, I came on here to plug my blog and you already did it for me, thanks!

And @Sybreed, we have an article about using a Medium Fighter Coverage in there as well: http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/03/squadrons-encyclopedia-3-medium-fighter.html

12 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Aw, man, I came on here to plug my blog and you already did it for me, thanks!

And @Sybreed, we have an article about using a Medium Fighter Coverage in there as well: http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/03/squadrons-encyclopedia-3-medium-fighter.html

that's pretty much what I was looking for.

I was also wondering if Y-Wings could be fit in medium fighter screen list, but I guess you answer that as well­

Just now, Sybreed said:

that's pretty much what I was looking for.

I was also wondering if Y-Wings could be fit in medium fighter screen list, but I guess you answer that as well­

Ehhhhhhhh. I wouldn't, probably. You might be able to get away with lancers, but that's still kinda iffy. Theoretically, you can do 3 X-wings, Jan, and like 4 Y-wings, but if your opponent takes a solid screen you're going to run into problems I feel. I'd probably just do more X-wings and make sure to bring a BCC at the end to help them.

3 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Ehhhhhhhh. I wouldn't, probably. You might be able to get away with lancers, but that's still kinda iffy. Theoretically, you can do 3 X-wings, Jan, and like 4 Y-wings, but if your opponent takes a solid screen you're going to run into problems I feel. I'd probably just do more X-wings and make sure to bring a BCC at the end to help them.

Lancers... so good on paper, but pretty bad in practice. If you really intend on using their rogue trait... you need 1st player or they'll just die before throwing a single die against a ship.

Just now, Sybreed said:

Lancers... so good on paper, but pretty bad in practice. If you really intend on using their rogue trait... you need 1st player or they'll just die before throwing a single die against a ship.

I actually just finished up the Lancer article yesterday (posting it Monday) and my response is "not necessarily." Put them in a group of other Rogues or some squadrons with Escort and you can do OK. They need friends to eat the shots from them though. And they DESPERATELY need Toryn nearby if they're going to use their blue dice.

15 minutes ago, geek19 said:

I actually just finished up the Lancer article yesterday (posting it Monday) and my response is "not necessarily." Put them in a group of other Rogues or some squadrons with Escort and you can do OK. They need friends to eat the shots from them though. And they DESPERATELY need Toryn nearby if they're going to use their blue dice.

I'd say both Toryn and BCC. I remember trying a full rogue list with YTs, Rogue squadron and lancers, but having no escort meant the lancers died on turn 2 and 3. Perhaps I need to give them another shot, but they left a pretty bad taste in my mouth!

Just now, Sybreed said:

I'd say both Toryn and BCC. I remember trying a full rogue list with YTs, Rogue squadron and lancers, but having no escort meant the lancers died on turn 2 and 3. Perhaps I need to give them another shot, but they left a pretty bad taste in my mouth!

Yeah i did that with Cracken, and yeah, same thing happened. Ketsu I think can do OK with YTs, but she also badly wants Escort friends. The question is, is having all their extra abilities make them worth more than a Y-wing? Or almost comparable to a Scurrg? And the best answer I can give is "kinda?"

1 minute ago, geek19 said:

Yeah i did that with Cracken, and yeah, same thing happened. Ketsu I think can do OK with YTs, but she also badly wants Escort friends. The question is, is having all their extra abilities make them worth more than a Y-wing? Or almost comparable to a Scurrg? And the best answer I can give is "kinda?"

yup, Cracken list as well. It failed miserably.

Hmm... 2 lancers, Wedge, X-Wing, 2 E-Wings. That probably packs some punch but don't expect eveything to survive? Toryn is almost a must here.

11 hours ago, Baltanok said:

There's also a 1+3 list using decimators that was successful. I can see how Imp X+3+squads lists did if you like. Don't know if they are common enough to really draw conclusions from.

What else was in the list?

I used a pair of lances as a second fighter wave to go in and harass ships afet lines have crossed, away from the main fighter blob of x-wings and e-wings in the list, it worked alright. I have historically enjoyed having a decent rogue bomber around to harass ships late game, and lancers are fast enough to do the trick

2 hours ago, n00bzilla99 said:

What else was in the list?

ISD II, Kallus, Gun Team, Boosted Comms, ECM, Leading Shots, X17, Relentless

Gozanti/Repair

Goz/Slicer/Suppressor

Goz/Motti

Morna/VT/VT/Rhymer/Dengar/Jendon. That's a bit closer to max squad points than I thought. Missed Jendon when I was looking at it earlier.

14 hours ago, Baltanok said:

ISD II, Kallus, Gun Team, Boosted Comms, ECM, Leading Shots, X17, Relentless

Gozanti/Repair

Goz/Slicer/Suppressor

Goz/Motti

Morna/VT/VT/Rhymer/Dengar/Jendon. That's a bit closer to max squad points than I thought. Missed Jendon when I was looking at it earlier.

How did it do?

So, as a firm squadron enthusiast (I remember back in the wave 1 300pt days I was running 3 Nebulon-Bs coordinating 3 X-Wings and 4 B-Wings), I've noticed 4 basic types of squadron bids.

Casual Bid- The casual bid is something you'll see a lot from newer players. It usually has a mix of fighters and bombers, but rarely has a clear focus or the resources to make the most of its squadrons.

Zero Bid- Essentially this is the player saying "screw it" and going all in on being able to break enemy carriers before their presence can be felt. It's more viable than its given credit for even in the current meta, but requires a number of concessions and a firm knowledge going in of its limitations.

Speedbump Bid- The bid for players who don't want to play squadrons, but don't want to die to squadrons either. The speedbump is the zero bid's little brother, but in order to use a Speedbump Bid properly you have to break yourself of one illusion, that being that these squadrons are not there to do damage, so their placement shouldn't be focused on enabling their attack, but simply making hostile attack more difficult.

Carrier Bid- Once you've spent well over a quarter of your points in fighters, you're conceding, at least on a tacit level, that those squadrons need to do work and make their presence felt. By extension, this usually means space is made on your ships for making these more effective (Various titles, Flight Controllers, FCTs, Bomber Commands), so you're usually spending way more than 134 points on squadrons, but only 134 is on the squadron themselves.

The Casual Bid is the weakest of the batch. A full Carrier Bid will roll over it and still deliver ordinance on target and it rarely has the dedicated resources to power through a Speedbump Bid before the ships they're acting as a speedbump for have already made their money. the Zero Bid typically doesn't fare that bad into a causal bid as, even with how efficient bombers can be, as there typically aren't the numbers or support to make up for the squadrons that far less effective against ships.

The Zero Bid fares well into a Speedbump Bid because typically both of these fleets are trying to do the same thing, but the Zero Bid didn't blow points on squadrons that may contribute minor damage if you're even feeling like coordinating them. Basically, the Speedbump Bid is playing down in points into the match-up which is not impossible to overcome as it's rarely above 50-60pts (maybe an extra ship), but it's not terribly favorable. The Zero Bid is very much an all or nothing into Carrier Bids. You're either going to get completely wrecked, or you're going to be able to take out the carriers and leave before the squadrons can make the difference. This approach really doesn't work with unmaneuverable fleets where you basically have no option, but to fly into the meatgrinder and the Carrier Bid can easily guess where to drop their squadrons for the ambush.

The Speedbump Bid is fairly common, but rarely has the desired effect. As discussed, it can work into Casual Bids, but it's been very rare when playing a Carrier Bid that the squadrons a Speedbump Bid throws out have been anything but an ancillary source of getting VPs for me. I've heard the quote "they only need to buy a turn or two", but in a dedicated Carrier Bid, it rarely even does that much and even when it manages to buy a turn, the squadrons from a Carrier Bid typically has the buffs to make their presence felt incredibly fast, so even it manages that it may not be enough.

The Carrier Bid, based on pure math is the strongest, but has a number of weaknesses based on external factors. The formation of a Carrier Bid will make or break it pretty quickly and if the enemy threatens envelopment, you have to make some hard and fast choices about where to allocate resources. Against someone who knows how to run a Carrier Bid, it can certainly seem like everything is always where it needs to be, but observe less experienced players flying it and the cracks in the armor become apparent very fast. Relay can allow for a little more freedom, but presents it's own problem i.e. if the relay dies, squadrons that were relying on it can get stranded and be rendered far less effective for the rest of the game. Basically, you're not just throwing 134pts in squadrons and calling it a day, you're building a dedicated fleet to make those squadrons do all of your work, so it requires the most considerations from a listbuilding standpoint of any of the bids.

5 hours ago, n00bzilla99 said:

How did it do?

#4 in Springfield, OH regional.

On 5/20/2017 at 2:23 PM, geek19 said:

Aw, man, I came on here to plug my blog and you already did it for me, thanks!

And @Sybreed, we have an article about using a Medium Fighter Coverage in there as well: http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/03/squadrons-encyclopedia-3-medium-fighter.html

Anytime! You guys are doing good work.

@Snipafist can we have an imp response to geeks article?

1 minute ago, Ginkapo said:

@Snipafist can we have an imp response to geeks article?

Towards the bottom I sub in for a little while to discuss the Imperial side of things. It's maybe a quarter of the article total but it does lay out how it's different for Imperials and provides some example builds.

3 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

@Snipafist can we have an imp response to geeks article?

in short, defenders

1 minute ago, Snipafist said:

Towards the bottom I sub in for a little while to discuss the Imperial side of things. It's maybe a quarter of the article total but it does lay out how it's different for Imperials and provides some example builds.

We may end up needing to update them with the Quasar able to pitch 6 squadrons at once, but I think we're mainly OK as is.

My fighter screen did amazing work this weekend. 2 Decimators, Valen, and Maarek. I held off a 132 point Rhymer ball (it did kill my Arq because I forgot about grit). Decimators won me 2 of my games. Killed an ISD II in round 6 giving me an 8-3 and was able to chew through Relay to neuter the Rhymer ball.

I dropped a Flechette Raider for the Decimators and it worked so much better than the Raider ever would. I may drop my Arq for the Raider however. Always good to have too much anti-squadron than not enough.