So, I can't wait for the quasar to be on the board, as most of you are. But, aren't we starting to see what is referred to as "power creep" with the big buffs that imps will get in wave 6?

We've complained that we made rebels too strong with Rieekan aces lists, but now Sloane will be stripping everything of defense tokens (ships included) and Rhymer balls will be even more dangerous on turn 1.

I guess my concern is that we're overbuffing Imps to the point where imperial squadron lists will dominate the meta (sorry those who hate squadron play).

It is too early to tell , of course, but I think we should be aware that we might be drifting into power creep territory, by buffing and giving tools to the losing side to the point where it might become the new flavor of the month. If FFG's answer to something that is very powerful is to create something else that is better, we might end up in a never ending cycle. Anyway, food for thoughts!

Although, I don't think Dispocaps are a problem. These are a one-time thing that counters MOSTLY flotillas but buffs one ship in particular, the VSD-2, so I think this is a good change.

But hey, good news is that 2 Tie Fighters can strip a flotilla of its scatter token. So there's that?

We will see what happens! I think if DCs were large ship capable, it would be completely broken, especially with Ackbar. I do like that Sloane is a good Imp admiral, one that is sorely needed, and I am excited to see her on the table. I am also wary of the power creep thing, but for now nothing seems that game-breaking. Again, need to see Sloane on the table.

Power creep is a problem with any expansion-based game. Armada has already seen its share of it, the current peak of which is the Rieekan ace list we're all so familiar with.

When first introduced Rieekan was an interesting, but not overly powerful, commander. As new releases came along his power curve kept increasing until it hit the perfect storm.

There's also a marketing drive for power creep. You want to get players excited about each new wave so they will buy it. The easiest way to accomplish this is to put something even more powerful in each successive wave.

I'm hoping FFG figures out a way to slow down this inevitable process. They are much better about containing power creep than many other companies (looking at you, WizKids).

I think what is described by Democratus is not power creep in any dangerous sense. That would be, if new expansions beat the old ones. If new upgrades are superior to the former ones of the same category. This is clearly not a general trend: Fleet Commanders? The dominant Rebel ones are: Dodonna (Wave 1) and Rieekan (Wave 2). It is not Cracken (Wave 3), Madine (Wave 4) and what is the name of the useless Wave 5 guy?

Similar results you will find in most categories. Yes, sometimes you see an upgrade that is really powerfull in its category and new, but hey, there have also been such upgrades earlier.

Most important: Yes, nowadays fleets are more powerfull than fleets of earlier times. But that is not a dangerous power creep, but the logical result of continous upgrades and expansions of even strength. The number of possible combinations are nowadays much higher than in former times. Logic demands that among these combinations are more powerfull ones than in former times. To prevent this, the newer upgrades and expansions needed to be weaker than the earlier ones. If they are equal in power thanks to the more versatile combinations the total fleet power increases. But this is not a bad development.

I do like that the upgrades are actually meaningful though. You guys remember PDR, or hell, Quad turbolasers? I'd rather have stuff that have a real impact than these overpriced piece of junks! (especially PDR, remove that **** close range requirement)

Quasar is not stupidly cheap to remove flotillas completely. I think it plays with quality rather than quantity. Something demanded so happy about that.

Sloane makes fighters better against ship. I actually change my interceptors to defender in my msu fleet because that. When I removed the enemy wing interceptors just die or escape. However Sloane doesn't make them lethal. At least not against ships. The chances are not awesome, even when they are not bad. Aces will suffer for sure. But acehole was a pointed problem. Not sure how good she is going to be. There are voices that claim she won't be so good.

More love for the vic? Oh yes! One use so far for being broken.

What concerns me more is the new range for Rhymer. But that was already good before (and didn't win the World) and the new one is limited to 3 squadrons. We can put heavy damage with just 3 (Rhymer+Maarek/Boba/Morna + Jendon) but after that, our marvelous combo could be wiped out by the enemy fighters.

Too soon to talk about it, I think, but I didn't see anything unstoppable. Mithel, Ten and raiders are going to be happy if tie fighters and tie interceptors show themselves more often.

We will have to see both sides have there way to deal with mass ties ten numb, mauler, Flack, and even if it's a stronghold it won't last to long aginst ship firepower with it's defense tokens. I feel that we will see a balancing out of the squadron game by the mere existence of this ship.

Wait what new rhymer range?

8 minutes ago, chr335 said:

Wait what new rhymer range?

squall + activation on turn 1

Ah yeah that does sound kinda terrifying

22 minutes ago, xero989 said:

We will have to see both sides have there way to deal with mass ties ten numb, mauler, Flack, and even if it's a stronghold it won't last to long aginst ship firepower with it's defense tokens. I feel that we will see a balancing out of the squadron game by the mere existence of this ship.

Obstruction is huge makes all swarm fighters immune to counter 1 and reduces the effectiveness of all ship anti squadron

9 minutes ago, chr335 said:

Ah yeah that does sound kinda terrifying

with jendon/mareek that's pretty much 4 guaranteed dmg. You could go for Morna Kee if you feel adventurous as well.

7 minutes ago, chr335 said:

Obstruction is huge makes all swarm fighters immune to counter 1 and reduces the effectiveness of all ship anti squadron

it's a huge nerf to A-Wing fighter screens.

25 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

squall + activation on turn 1

I think all this does is open up the map. Do you think I am going deploy my ship inside that new threat range?

Just now, itzSteve said:

I think all this does is open up the map. Do you think I am going deploy my ship inside that new threat range?

yes please?

I thinks some the the new material could sway the power a bit too much but don't forget we still have the hammerheads full article to see what they will bring to the table. Should be a great wave for armada all said and done, I think.

7 minutes ago, Rune Taq said:

I thinks some the the new material could sway the power a bit too much but don't forget we still have the hammerheads full article to see what they will bring to the table. Should be a great wave for armada all said and done, I think.

Yep. While the Quasar does boost Imperial fighters (something that many claimed to be necessary if not vital), the Hammerheads have the potential to seriously boost some Rebel fleets, which happily aren't Rieekan aces. For example, can you imagine how it would be with the Hammerhead title to double-arc with APTs, then ram for a face-up damage, all three of which are chosen by Dodonna? And then you ram it, and that adds a fourth card. Maybe more if you are lucky enough to 1+ Structurals. . . not to mention the boost that gives to Ram lists. Basically it seems like this wave opens up a lot of new possibilities that distract from the current archetypes by seemingly providing a potential counter. In that regard I think that it did its intended job. Whether the components turn out to be too good at their job is something we'll have to see, but as of now I'd say we're still fine. In for a major meta shake-up, but otherwise fine balance wise.

I totally understand your problem, Sybreed. Overbuffing a side to give something back would be usefull. I'd wait with the doom and gloom till we see Quad Battery Turrets. I bet its gonna be something usefull against squads to offensive retrofit. So... if its a viable anti-squad tool, it will hit the aces and rhymer too, in my opinion it would be ok then

6 hours ago, Democratus said:

Power creep is a problem with any expansion-based game. Armada has already seen its share of it, the current peak of which is the Rieekan ace list we're all so familiar with.

When first introduced Rieekan was an interesting, but not overly powerful, commander. As new releases came along his power curve kept increasing until it hit the perfect storm.

There's also a marketing drive for power creep. You want to get players excited about each new wave so they will buy it. The easiest way to accomplish this is to put something even more powerful in each successive wave.

I'm hoping FFG figures out a way to slow down this inevitable process. They are much better about containing power creep than many other companies (looking at you, WizKids).

Agreed, the player base would get bores otherwise if the new ships contained copies of previous cards. More upgrades, more lethality, keeping tournament players on their back foot every 6 months.

5 hours ago, itzSteve said:

I think all this does is open up the map. Do you think I am going deploy my ship inside that new threat range?

Depending on the fleet you may not have a choice

11 hours ago, itzSteve said:

I think all this does is open up the map. Do you think I am going deploy my ship inside that new threat range?

I think an interdictor and a quasar are going to be a good combination.

10 minutes ago, D503 said:

I think an interdictor and a quasar are going to be a good combination.

And I'm SO excited about it. Just bringing a dictor to every store championship I go to. It's what I'm hoping will make a strong combination possibly enough to be competitive.

8 minutes ago, Card Knight said:

And I'm SO excited about it. Just bringing a dictor to every store championship I go to. It's what I'm hoping will make a strong combination possibly enough to be competitive.

Interdictor list just won a Store Champs in NC, apparently... Hopefully tryng to scrounge some details, and when I do, it'll be in the Article Predictions Thread.

I do not think this is power creep.

Power creep, by wargaming definitions, invalidates older models so you're forced to buy and USE the newer models in order to keep up. That is FFG's standard mode, and I think that Armada avoids it.

Yes, you have to buy the newer models, but they include cards to make the OLDER models good - such as TRCs for CR90s, and the new Offensive Upgrade for Vics, and the Quasar's combo with the til-now lacklustre Interdictor makes it verrry interesting...

If someone wants to commit all their fighters to bombing me in the first turn I will be very happy. Because now I can cut them apart while they are completely unsupported, and the damage will be minimal because all my defences will be at maximum efficiency without cap ship fire to worry about.