4 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

He's joking. It's obvious he's joking. The whole tone is deliberately over the top and the bad attempt at coded pig Latin makes it clear he'd mostly like to discuss what people think Rebel fleets will do in reaction to new Imperial options. That's all.

If making jokes lightly aimed at the tendency of forum-goers to extremely overreact to things is trolling, then most of the best commenters on this forum are trolls. Ridiculing the ridiculous is natural and I don't see the harm so long as it's not mean-spirited or personal.

Imperial spies have broken our unbreakable code! Quick, retreat to Hoth, throw Bothans at them until we get a new code, based around Cootie Catchers or Ubbi Dubbi or the Snoop Dogg -Izzle thing!

3 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

With Spinal Armament and Leading Shots in there I'd be curious as to what the averages come out to. It would be even better with Vader instead of Leading Shots so you can keep the whole dice pool.

Only question with THAT is how do you turn? Only Jerry OR Vader get to drive the bus, sadly

Just now, geek19 said:

Only question with THAT is how do you turn? Only Jerry OR Vader get to drive the bus, sadly

I mean with enough navigate commands early on you can do all right with other commanders (Vader needs it too, he just helps beat-downs not turning) - notably Motti or perhaps even Tarkin. I would generally consider it mostly with Vader or Jerry though, for sure. Jerry brings the maneuverability, Vader brings the "here comes 7 dice (8 with concentrate fire in my dreams) from downtown with a reroll, see you later small ship!" ability without having to lean on Leading Shots so hard, which lowers the overall damage.

It's not cheap, though. You're spending nearly naked-ISD-I points for a VSD-II with the Disposables and all the shiny upgrades, but at least it now can do something other Imperial ships cannot and isn't just "the consolation prize ISD for when your points are tight." Poor VSD-II has been in the doghouse since ISDs came out. The VSD-I at least gets to be stupid cheap and have the turbolasers+ordnance combination (which is gonna be swell with External Racks, too). The VSD-II is in more direct competition with the ISDs and it's suffered for it. Until now.

3 hours ago, Truthiness said:

4.125 average damage and 0.375 average accuracies. With the evade, it is indeed unlikely the VSD will one shot a flotilla on a consistent basis. However, the risk is high for the flotilla's commander. Would you really to want to risk giving it a clean shot?

I love what DCaps have done for the VSDII. It has the highest damage potential of any ship at long range. Gunnery Teams, H9s, and DCaps is just wonderful.

Im pretty sure a upgraded Ackbar MC80 has almost 2x potendial damage , without DC.

4+2+1+1+1=9 red = 18 dmg?

4 Battery + Ackbar + EA + Defiance + ConcFire.

Doesn't vsd2 with DC max at 11 dmg?

22 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

With Spinal Armament and Leading Shots in there I'd be curious as to what the averages come out to. It would be even better with Vader instead of Leading Shots so you can keep the whole dice pool.

VSD2 with Spinal Armament and Leading Shots:

5.24606 average damage
Accuracy distribution:
0:21.39%
1:50.0%
2:23.91%
3:4.21%

Against CR90 Front (evade is in play)
4.77832 average damage
2.4% chance of ship kill.
36.53% chance of ship kill evaded.

Against Gozanti (both scatter and evade are in play)
3.34643 average damage
62.74% chance of ship kill.
11.19% chance of ship kill evaded.

As someone who has run variants of the Liberty with Gunnery Teams, I've never seen enemy fleets just stop taking flotillas because of it. The upgrade definitely gives the VSDs much more options and usefulness, since you really want your shots to hit hard when you have them, but that by itself won't change the nature of the flotilla/squadron game.

Just now, pt106 said:

Against Gozanti (both scatter and evade are in play)

3.34643 average damage
62.74% chance of ship kill.
11.19% chance of ship kill evaded.

Thank you! Any chance I could ask for that with Vader rerolling instead of Leading Shots? If not, I understand. The reroll is very context-dependent (if you want accuracy results or damage, for example), so it's difficult to really probability out.

I'm also kind of curious about using Ion Cannon Batteries to try for the 58% chance (original roll) on the crit effect, hoping for the extra damage to hit the shields. Lots of variables, though...

5 minutes ago, Vergilius said:

As someone who has run variants of the Liberty with Gunnery Teams, I've never seen enemy fleets just stop taking flotillas because of it. The upgrade definitely gives the VSDs much more options and usefulness, since you really want your shots to hit hard when you have them, but that by itself won't change the nature of the flotilla/squadron game.

Classic Ben, having us take flotillas so he can kill them when they deploy with his Hyperspace Assaulting LMC80. Or in actual possibility, you can do it with a top of Planetary Ion Cannon (one accuracy for the Scatter, pull a Structural Damage Crit and down goes a flotilla, hilariously enough)

I mean, if you're taking a 3 point disposable upgrade and a Vic II in order to kill an 18-20 point ship once, I am not sure who the winner is here.

9 minutes ago, Caldias said:

I mean, if you're taking a 3 point disposable upgrade and a Vic II in order to kill an 18-20 point ship once, I am not sure who the winner is here.

But what happens when it's the ship carrying the commander that's really Rieekan some havoc in the game?

I'm here all night!

9 minutes ago, Caldias said:

I mean, if you're taking a 3 point disposable upgrade and a Vic II in order to kill an 18-20 point ship once, I am not sure who the winner is here.

The person who still has assets on the table? It's not as though all it would be good for is handling flotillas but it certainly doesn't hurt that it can help against flotillas. The "oh yeah, well you're spending points on killing a cheap flotilla!" argument has never held a lot of water with me. You should be destroying enemy ships as best you can with the tools you have. Less activations, less squadron commands, less token-passing, and less opponent points on the table is always beneficial. Yes there comes a point where it's silly to over-invest in destroying something, but being good at something that also happens to be capable of one-shotting flotillas (a task the more ponderous Imperial ships can struggle with) doesn't seem detrimental to me.

I'm loving that we finally have an indisputably good Offensive Retrofit, even if it only benefits small-medium ships.

Oh, and I'm also loving that they made a powerful combat boost upgrade that has no effect at all on black dice.

8 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Thank you! Any chance I could ask for that with Vader rerolling instead of Leading Shots?

A rough estimate (using the algorithm hastily fine-tuned to hunt for 1 accuracy - so this means that the data for leading shots case may be higher that I posted as that one used a generic algorithm that tried to maximize damage):

5.91465 average damage

Accuracy distribution:

0:9.05%
1:44.06%
2:39.26%
3:7.04%
4:0.57%

Against Gozanti
4.12904 average damage
80.43% chance of ship kill.
9.72% chance of ship kill evaded.

Looks like a pretty solid hunter to me.

Disclaimer: All this numbers may end up being inaccurate due to the presence of undocumented creatures in my code

14 minutes ago, Caldias said:

I mean, if you're taking a 3 point disposable upgrade and a Vic II in order to kill an 18-20 point ship once, I am not sure who the winner is here.

If you're spending a VSD2 to remove two enemy activations and possibly a key part of the enemy strategy, I think the winner is probably you.

Just now, thecactusman17 said:

I'm loving that we finally have an indisputably good Offensive Retrofit, even if it only benefits small-medium ships.

Oh, and I'm also loving that they made a powerful combat boost upgrade that has no effect at all on black dice.

...Expanded Hangar Bays?

To kill flotillas with a vic2 add h9 and sw7s.

Just now, thecactusman17 said:

If you're spending a VSD2 to remove two enemy activations and possibly a key part of the enemy strategy, I think the winner is probably you.

Wave 4 I fine-tuned ISD2 for this role and felt that it was definitely worth it.

1 minute ago, Daht said:

To kill flotillas with a vic2 add h9 and sw7s.

And that may actually lower a kill probability, as you essentially need to have no blanks on all your reds.

Just now, iamfanboy said:

...Expanded Hangar Bays?

The problem there is it's only useful insomuch as it can be applied towards commanding squadrons. If the ship in question wasn't going to be used as a carrier, then Expanded Hangar Bays (or Boosted Comms) are worthless.

Granted, the Disposable Capacitors are only useful on specific kinds of ships but they're an offensive retrofit that has direct offensive use, which is a welcome first.

I'm beginning to wonder if it might be worth slapping them even on a Raider-I. It's not uncommon for my Raiders on turn 2 to still be sliding into position for action on turn 3. It might be worth paying 3 points for a one-time turn 2 attack of 2 (or 3 with concentrate fire dial) blue dice at long range. Probably not, but maybe...

7 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

The problem there is it's only useful insomuch as it can be applied towards commanding squadrons. If the ship in question wasn't going to be used as a carrier, then Expanded Hangar Bays (or Boosted Comms) are worthless.

Granted, the Disposable Capacitors are only useful on specific kinds of ships but they're an offensive retrofit that has direct offensive use, which is a welcome first.

I'm beginning to wonder if it might be worth slapping them even on a Raider-I. It's not uncommon for my Raiders on turn 2 to still be sliding into position for action on turn 3. It might be worth paying 3 points for a one-time turn 2 attack of 2 (or 3 with concentrate fire dial) blue dice at long range. Probably not, but maybe...

Well, it continues in the theme of Offensive Retrofits being highly specific niche items, useful on only certain ships - even if most of them are 'don't even bother bindering' trash. That does make this one stand out.

1 minute ago, pt106 said:

And that may actually lower a kill probability, as you essentially need to have no blanks on all your reds.

Not really. What you need is something to give you one additional blue die and 2 red non-blanks. If you put a CF command, you're basically guaranteed a kill.

8 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

Well, it continues in the theme of Offensive Retrofits being highly specific niche items, useful on only certain ships - even if most of them are 'don't even bother bindering' trash.

Niche I won't disagree with, although there's definitely many shades of "niche." I do feel like the Disposable Capacitors are a lot more direct than their predecessor offensive retrofits, though. The squadron-buffing ones go on a ship and then only do something on the resolution of a specific command (squadrons, of course) and then work on entirely different models on the table (squadrons). They're good in the right circumstances but they're a bit of a Rube Goldberg Machine so far as being a direct offensive upgrade.

The other offensive retrofits are super niche and generally garbage, though. QLTs in very specific circumstances can be "okay." In the right situations, Tractor Beams aren't bad either but it's very context- and meta-dependent (moreso than I'm generally comfortable with).

I'm curious as to what those Quad Batteries are going to do. We now know for sure that it's an offensive retrofit for it can't be anything else. Maybe they are like Disposable Capacitors in that they're a more direct offensive buff? Maybe they're more anti-squadron tech but maybe not garbage this time? I'm curious. I don't think we'll know for another week or so, though.

28 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

If you're spending a VSD2 to remove two enemy activations and possibly a key part of the enemy strategy, I think the winner is probably you.

I highly doubt anyone is gonna let a GT Vic II have two flots in juicy range, but I digress. Anything that makes medium ships more viable is great, esp with Imps.

19 minutes ago, Caldias said:

I highly doubt anyone is gonna let a GT Vic II have two flots in juicy range, but I digress. Anything that makes medium ships more viable is great, esp with Imps.

The great thing about Disposable Capacitors is that with the way the VSD front arc is shaped, 2 flotillas at long range are actually very easy to catch as long as they aren't actively running away from the VSD. And if they are, then it's instead possible to redirect that firepower to ships that are more wiling to engage.

2 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

But what happens when it's the ship carrying the commander that's really Rieekan some havoc in the game?

I'm here all night!

In this case the flotilla owner deserves this. To get killed by a Speed 2 ship that started on the other side of the map....

The disposable upgrade is good for one part. Allow the VSD to attack without having the speed (at least attack one round).
Huting down flotilla might be nice, but i doubt that it will do this so often.

But the ability for the alpha strike on the long range is interesting, as long as you can get the ship around.
And even the Interdictor is nice with this. Double arc on long range is boosting this ship in my opinion. In the past you could say: Interdictor, to expensive, no range, no damage. Now you can attack one round earlier with the full battery.
A tripple Interdictor team with Engine Techs could be really fun now (unless the opponent has to many squadrons ).

Wave 6 Interdictor
Points: 398/400

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[ flagship ] Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Admiral Konstantine ( 23 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Targeting Scrambler ( 5 points)
- Grav Shift Reroute ( 2 points)
= 135 total ship cost

Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Targeting Scrambler ( 5 points)
- G7-X Grav Well Projector ( 2 points)
= 112 total ship cost

Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Targeting Scrambler ( 5 points)
- G7-X Grav Well Projector ( 2 points)
= 112 total ship cost

1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)

You could even kick out the Intel and G7 to add G-8. In this case you can totally lock some ships in place.
I really want to try this .

8 hours ago, Snipafist said:

He's joking. It's obvious he's joking. The whole tone is deliberately over the top and the bad attempt at coded pig Latin makes it clear he'd mostly like to discuss what people think Rebel fleets will do in reaction to new Imperial options. That's all.

If making jokes lightly aimed at the tendency of forum-goers to extremely overreact to things is trolling, then most of the best commenters on this forum are trolls. Ridiculing the ridiculous is natural and I don't see the harm so long as it's not mean-spirited or personal.

'like'

8 hours ago, geek19 said:

Imperial spies have broken our unbreakable code! Quick, retreat to Hoth, throw Bothans at them until we get a new code, based around Cootie Catchers or Ubbi Dubbi or the Snoop Dogg -Izzle thing!

Only question with THAT is how do you turn? Only Jerry OR Vader get to drive the bus, sadly

'like'. And: Grq'w zruub, zh'oo pdqdjh! *

*yes, believe it or not, that's a coherent, encoded sentence.

8 hours ago, pt106 said:

VSD2 with Spinal Armament and Leading Shots:

5.24606 average damage
Accuracy distribution:
0:21.39%
1:50.0%
2:23.91%
3:4.21%

Against CR90 Front (evade is in play)
4.77832 average damage
2.4% chance of ship kill.
36.53% chance of ship kill evaded.

Against Gozanti (both scatter and evade are in play)
3.34643 average damage
62.74% chance of ship kill.
11.19% chance of ship kill evaded.

'like'. Thanks for the work!

7 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

But what happens when it's the ship carrying the commander that's really Rieekan some havoc in the game?

I'm here all night!

'like'

7 hours ago, Snipafist said:

The person who still has assets on the table? It's not as though all it would be good for is handling flotillas but it certainly doesn't hurt that it can help against flotillas. The "oh yeah, well you're spending points on killing a cheap flotilla!" argument has never held a lot of water with me. You should be destroying enemy ships as best you can with the tools you have. Less activations, less squadron commands, less token-passing, and less opponent points on the table is always beneficial. Yes there comes a point where it's silly to over-invest in destroying something, but being good at something that also happens to be capable of one-shotting flotillas (a task the more ponderous Imperial ships can struggle with) doesn't seem detrimental to me.

'like'

7 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

I'm loving that we finally have an indisputably good Offensive Retrofit, even if it only benefits small-medium ships.

Oh, and I'm also loving that they made a powerful combat boost upgrade that has no effect at all on black dice.

'like'

7 hours ago, pt106 said:

A rough estimate (using the algorithm hastily fine-tuned to hunt for 1 accuracy - so this means that the data for leading shots case may be higher that I posted as that one used a generic algorithm that tried to maximize damage):

5.91465 average damage

Accuracy distribution:

0:9.05%
1:44.06%
2:39.26%
3:7.04%
4:0.57%

Against Gozanti
4.12904 average damage
80.43% chance of ship kill.
9.72% chance of ship kill evaded.

Looks like a pretty solid hunter to me.

Disclaimer: All this numbers may end up being inaccurate due to the presence of undocumented creatures in my code

'like' and: Ah yes, the eternal bane of coders! In the words of Maurice Wilkes: 'The realization came over me in full force that a good part of the remainder of my life was going to be spent finding the errors in my own programs.'

7 hours ago, pt106 said:

And that may actually lower a kill probability, as you essentially need to have no blanks on all your reds.

'like'

5 hours ago, Tokra said:

*snip*

'like'