3 minutes ago, Valca said:Then it would have the survivability of the Raider or the Arquitens, depending on which you replaced. Those two aren't the most survivable ships under fire.
Depending on the end list, sure. Definitely so against heavy guns, but against TRC90s?
2 minutes ago, svelok said:Why would anyone ever take a loaded Gallant Haven, Yavaris, or Pelta, when you could take two naked GR-75s instead?
Those must all be bad ships, they're so fragile and expensive compared to the same number of squadron activations worth of flotillas.
Because those ships are amazing compared to the Quasar.
Each one of those ships has more defense tokens, the same or way more shields, and basically the same health.
2 minutes ago, Ronin K said:In this scenario you have listed 4 TIE Bomber AND TIE fighters all attacking one flotilla which only nets you...23 total points. Say you do it again the next round, now I am down only another 23 points.
Meanwhile I take out your one Quasar over the course of two rounds, which again is easy since it only has 2 tokens, I have Sloane, and you don't have ECM.
At the end of those two rounds I will be winning 70-46.
I only need to score more six points to secure a 6-4 win.
I mean, it's all hypothetical, so we can't know for sure how the game would go until we played it, but think of this: You go fist, activate 2 squads and maybe kill 2 TIES if you're lucky. I go then and kill a Gozanti. Score is 23:16.
Then you go, activate, maybe strip the tokens off the Quasar. I then activate another ship, say a VSD-II gunboat, activate a few more TIEs, kill your second flotilla and maybe a TIE fighter. Score: 54:16. . .
It really is all subjective. What if instead of attacking your Gozanti I destroyed 60 points in squadrons? You can't argue based on a hypothetical game taking place in your head since all the moves are being decided based on you making it up as you go along. . . if you want, I'd be more than happy to play a Vassal game with you to test your theory (though perhaps later next month, when I shall have access to a better computer). And no, this is not meant as an insulting challenge or whatnot, merely a friendly attempt to be helpful and lay your question to rest.
Just now, NobodyInParticular said:I mean, it's all hypothetical, so we can't know for sure how the game would go until we played it, but think of this: You go fist, activate 2 squads and maybe kill 2 TIES if you're lucky. I go then and kill a Gozanti. Score is 23:16.
Then you go, activate, maybe strip the tokens off the Quasar. I then activate another ship, say a VSD-II gunboat, activate a few more TIEs, kill your second flotilla and maybe a TIE fighter. Score: 54:16. . .
It really is all subjective. What if instead of attacking your Gozanti I destroyed 60 points in squadrons? You can't argue based on a hypothetical game taking place in your head since all the moves are being decided based on you making it up as you go along. . . if you want, I'd be more than happy to play a Vassal game with you to test your theory (though perhaps later next month, when I shall have access to a better computer). And no, this is not meant as an insulting challenge or whatnot, merely a friendly attempt to be helpful and lay your question to rest.
I completely agree that Armada is bad game to play hypothetically.
I am just saying that there is a reason why the past 2 world champ builds have included 2 flotillas and 4 activations. It is super cost effective.
11 minutes ago, Ronin K said:In this scenario you have listed 4 TIE Bomber AND TIE fighters all attacking one flotilla which only nets you...23 total points. Say you do it again the next round, now I am down only another 23 points.
Meanwhile I take out your one Quasar over the course of two rounds, which again is easy since it only has 2 tokens, I have Sloane, and you don't have ECM.
At the end of those two rounds I will be winning 70-46.
I only need to score more six points to secure a 6-4 win.
My Moff Jerjerrod, speed 3 Quasar will take that challenge! Come on in to close range on that first attack so I can strip your ship of tokens with Boarding Troopers and then be long gone while you can no longer defend yourself.
Boarding Troopers and Sloane are amazing!
Just now, Ronin K said:I completely agree that Armada is bad game to play hypothetically.
I am just saying that there is a reason why the past 2 world champ builds have included 2 flotillas and 4 activations. It is super cost effective.
Another reason could be that the Quasar was not yet available
I understand where you're coming from, and agree that your point is valid. But you must admit that 70 points for 3 times the squadron activation at once, especially when combined with flight controllers and (potentially) ruthless strategists neither of which the Gozanti can take. Or, if you go the other way, you can have boosted comms and expanded hanger bay - again, Gozs can't take that. Basically it's either a cheap nibble-to-death approach by activating 6 TIE/f squadrons (for example) over 2 activations for 56 points (no tokens), or 5 TIE/f fighters at once with an additional blue AS die for 60 points. Against squads the latter is more effective since it prevents the opponent from activating parshially damaged squads by allowing the player to more effectively concentrate fire. Against ships, say with Sloane, it allows the user to remove more defense tokens faster. So yes, cheap transports are good, and have an additional deployment/activation advantage for less points, but the benefit of the alpha-strike cannot be measured merely in points and shouldn't be underestimated. Those additional 4 points (at the cheapest) may turn the whole game around.
8 minutes ago, Ronin K said:Boarding Troopers and Sloane are amazing!
Sloane will be a beast, but I am looking at Jerjerrod. That zero yaw at speed 3 is crying for some MJ magic! Gonna drop a Squall Quasar out there with a full complement of TIE Phantoms. They move 2 with the title card, 4 more naturally, and at the end of the squadron phase they get to move another distance 1 and then the whole thing repeats itself. They can't be pinned down...
Edited by itzSteve2 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:Another reason could be that the Quasar was not yet available
I understand where you're coming from, and agree that your point is valid. But you must admit that 70 points for 3 times the squadron activation at once, especially when combined with flight controllers and (potentially) ruthless strategists neither of which the Gozanti can take. Or, if you go the other way, you can have boosted comms and expanded hanger bay - again, Gozs can't take that. Basically it's either a cheap nibble-to-death approach by activating 6 TIE/f squadrons (for example) over 2 activations for 56 points (no tokens), or 5 TIE/f fighters at once with an additional blue AS die for 60 points. Against squads the latter is more effective since it prevents the opponent from activating parshially damaged squads by allowing the player to more effectively concentrate fire. Against ships, say with Sloane, it allows the user to remove more defense tokens faster. So yes, cheap transports are good, and have an additional deployment/activation advantage for less points, but the benefit of the alpha-strike cannot be measured merely in points and shouldn't be underestimated. Those additional 4 points (at the cheapest) may turn the whole game around.
Well said!
Pardon me while I go and count how many TIE fighters and interceptors I have....
1 hour ago, Baltanok said:I disagree. if you add 2 more range steps equal to range step #5 to your fighter range ruler, move2 + move 4 comes out just a bit longer than the non-existent range 7 ruler.
Sorry, but you are dead wrong on this one. I don't have my rulers atm, but using Vassal, I was able to measure these ranges out.
the stronghold title would effect dengar since he has swarm also, right?
4 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:the stronghold title would effect dengar since he has swarm also, right?
I would think so
Just now, Audio Weasel said:I would think so
I figured it would, the article just focused so much on imperial squadrons that I felt like asking. His ability to give counter 1 to ties near him will be even better when the initial attacks are treated as obstructed.
1 minute ago, ninclouse2000 said:I figured it would, the article just focused so much on imperial squadrons that I felt like asking. His ability to give counter 1 to ties near him will be even better when the initial attacks are treated as obstructed.
Well, the Imperials DO try to ignore the fact that they need that kind of scum
Just now, Audio Weasel said:Well, the Imperials DO try to ignore the fact that they need that kind of scum
Lol yes they do.
3 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:I figured it would, the article just focused so much on imperial squadrons that I felt like asking. His ability to give counter 1 to ties near him will be even better when the initial attacks are treated as obstructed.
In all seriousness.... I faced a guy who was running the most TIE Fighters as he could plus dengar along with an ISD and 2 raiders in my first regional....and it was death by 1000 cuts.... I had NO idea what to do about it.
Just now, Audio Weasel said:In all seriousness.... I faced a guy who was running the most TIE Fighters as he could plus dengar along with an ISD and 2 raiders in my first regional....and it was death by 1000 cuts.... I had NO idea what to do about it.
Full disclosure....... I lost that game very VERY badly
How many weeks out do we think the wave is at this point? 3 or 4 weeks? Less than that? more than that?
6 hours ago, itzSteve said:Well...with the Stronghold title, the Imps got their own Gallant Haven...there is gonna be a cluster**** of a range 1-2 battle between the AF and the Quasar!
Hah, yes, unfortunately. Last thing the game needs is more clustering.
I like how Stronghold is a huge facepunch to the Rieekan fighter apocalypse list. Yes, bring your fighters closer... mine are always obstructed, blast off defense tokens, are cheaper, and I can activate more of them in a massive alpha strike. So we don't have Yavaris to pump up six squads, but they defend better and under Sloane, can really do a number on ace squadrons. The range restriction is not going to be pretty because it forces those squads to be close, but the Rieekan fighter list doesn't have a lot of large batteries to really threaten a QF- most of their attack power is in stacked B-Wings and bombers.
And now with these QF tools and Sloane, the Empire can invest in the squadron game and actually do something with it after killing squads. I'm excited to put one of these on the table and start attacking things- maybe throw in a pair of ARQs without their intel officers and something else... since my fighters are taking the place of intel officers. Probably a QF-I with boosted comms, Expanded Hangars, Flight Controllers. Tests will need to show if I need Tua (with RBD or ECMs) or Chiranaeu. Commander I'd like to be Sloane, but reliable Mr. Motti is always there.
Also, look at that: the VSD is still the only ship locked at speed 2. Even interdictors can load up on Engine techs and get out of dodge, the poor VSD can't.
Grand Inquisitor is probably going on Demo for speed control, letting it switch to concentrate fire for more black dice!
Squall can be good... though I find most Imperial squadrons are pretty fast already. YVs I guess are back with the extra speeds, and Decimators go faster, though what I'd be curious to try is Boosted comm shuttles throwing objective tokens around at long range. Yes it's there for a massive alpha strike, but you need to follow up with other activations after that or it's not worth it. I've made alpha strikes that big before and the amount of stuff I've actually destroyed with it is kind of disappointing.
7 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:How many weeks out do we think the wave is at this point? 3 or 4 weeks? Less than that? more than that?
Unknown, but in Crabbok's video on his youtube channel (which he got out VERY quickly) he suggested we'll probably see it by early July at the latest
Stronghold.... so im going to have to being a full 134 points of snipe squadrons then since i cant get close? Not happy about it but oh well if i must. At least with snipe ( and probably a intel) i dont have to face too much retribution every round.
Overall i dont know what to think about this new wave. Yay for new stuff and f*** now the rebellion has lost the only thing keeping it together (in both canon and game) which are their amazing uniques?
So be it. Looks like im changing factions till wave 7 lmao
Not saying squadrons are the only thing the rebellion has, but i mean with sloane and TIEs their (overall) lower health ships have lost their major defense against round two destruction
(Yeah im probably a bit salty, give me a day to get over it hahahaha)